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Posted: 15 Nov 2002, 01:39
by Jaclem
Gavilan first and toss up for the rest. Napoles was a fooler...he never looked as good, at least to me, as his record showed he obviously was. Sort of like the old quote: "Wagner's music is better than it sounds." Griffith had Rodriguez's number, but fair decisions would have them at two each instead of the 3 and 1, as one Griffith win was really a robbery. In a series it's the last fight that usually counts, and Griffith won that one clearly. Glad to see Rodriguez even in the mix, though, as he is one very much underrated fighter.
Posted: 15 Nov 2002, 02:07
by Tomato-Can
Interesting point about Napoles, Jaclem. I was always reading how great "Mantequilla" was than al of a sudden I see these pictures of a badly bruised Napoles losing to Billy Backus. How could Backus beat such a great fighter? Jose won the rematch but still....
I got to see Luis Rodriguez live a couple of times here in Seattle but he was an old fighter by then.
Anyway Keyser, you probably got them in the right order although Gavilan is before my time but from what I have read....
Posted: 16 Mar 2003, 17:07
by Jaclem
terap...noticed your user name is Paret spelled backward. (Hardly a genius observation.) Any connection as to why you chose it? He certainly was a good fighter, wasn't he. Gtiffith, Paret and Rodriguez were all fine welters at the same time, and on good night each one was capable of beating the other. In addition to his obvious gifts, Griffith having Clancy as his manager has to rate near the top.
Posted: 17 Mar 2003, 14:36
by enrique
AS FAR AS MY FELLOW CUBANS ARE CONCERNED I RATE LUIS AND GAVILAN TIED FOR FIRST AND SECOND FOR NAPOLES.
LUIS- IN FIRST BECAUSE HE FOUGHT ALL THE ANIMALS AND USUALLY GIVING UP TEN POUNDS. HE BEAT RUBIN CARTER, SKEETER McLURE, JESSE SMITH, ROCKY RIVERO, CARL HUBBARD, GOMEO BRENNAN, CECIL SHORTS, JOE MICELI, TONY MUNDINE, VICENTE RONDON, VIRGIL AKINS, YAMA BAHAMA AND WAS THE FIRST TO STOP DENNY MOYER AND GEORGE BENTON. MOST MIDDLEWEIGHTS RAN AWAY FROM SOME OF THESE GUYS AND LUIS BEAT A LOT OF THEM TWICE.
HIS FIGHTS WITH GRIFFITH, EMILE HAD THE HOMETOWN EDGE. ONE OF THE FIGHTS WAS DECIDED ON A SPLIT IN GRIFFITH'S FAVOR BY ONE POINT AND THE ONLY UNANIMOUS DESICION IN THE SERIES WAS LUIS'.
HE BEAT PARET TWICE AND WON BOTH FIGHTS FAIRLY EASILY.
GAVILAN HAD A CONCRETE CHIN AND LOTS OF FLASH AND SPEED AND DEFENDED HIS TITLE OFTEN -ALTHOUGH CLEARLY ONE OF THE BILLY GRAHAM FIGHTS WAS MOBBED IN HIS FAVOR- BUT THE KID WAS A TOP OF THE LINE FIGHTER AND DESERVES TO HOLD -OR SHARE- THE NUMBER ONE SPOT.
NAPOLES WAS GOOD, VERY GOOD, BUT HIS LEVEL OF COMPETITION WAS NOT THE SAME AS LUIS AND THE KID......BILLY BACKUS AND JOHN L STRACEY ARE NOT THE SAME LEVEL OF OPPONENTS AS GRIFFITH, ROBINSON AND BASILIO.
Posted: 17 Mar 2003, 17:27
by enrique
ISAAC LOGART WAS A GOOD ONE. I'VE BEEN TOLD HE STILL AROUND AND LIVING IN NEW YORK OR JERSEY.
I DID NOT SEE THE PARET FIGHTS BUT I DID TALK TO LUIS SARRIA ABOUT THEM AND HIS VERSION WAS THAT THEY WERE ENTERTAINING BECAUSE BOTH HAD SPEED BUT PARET MISSED A LOT. SARRIA SAID PARET HAD FAST HANDS BUT HIS LEG SPEED DID NOT MATCH LUIS.
I ALSO KNEW CARON GONZALEZ VERY WELL. HE TRAINED PARET AND SAID THE KID COMPLAINED OF HEADACHES SINCE HE FOUGHT A DRAW WITH THOMPSON.
PARET SHOULD BE CONSIDERED FOR A TOP LIST. HE WON TITLES WHEN TITLES WERE REAL AND STOOD HIS GROUND WITH HARD COMPANY INSIDE THE ROPES.
JOSE STABLE WAS ANOTHER TOP CUBAN WELTER. HE'S DOING LIFE IN A FLORIDA PRISON. HE HAD A LOT OF TALENT -ANOTHER CARON GONZALEZ TRAINED FIGHTER- BUT HE WAS A MENTAL CASE AND IS DOING LIFE FOR SHOOTING A COP.
Re: Rank the trio of great Cuban welterweights
Posted: 04 Dec 2017, 13:43
by BoxBuzz
I wonder what our new generation of contributors opinion's would be.
Re:
Posted: 04 Dec 2017, 15:11
by Kalan
enrique wrote: ↑17 Mar 2003, 14:36
AS FAR AS MY FELLOW CUBANS ARE CONCERNED I RATE LUIS AND GAVILAN TIED FOR FIRST AND SECOND FOR NAPOLES
That would make Napoles 3rd... If you're last in a 3-man race that doesn't make you second.
I rank Rodriguez number 1... He beat many top ranked Middleweights -- beating Hurricane Carter and Benny Briscoe easy -- twice each.
Rodriguez's KO ratio was twice as high as the powerless Gavilan, who threw fluff... By far the hardest puncher was Napoles -- who I rank 2nd... Napoles easily beat Griffith and he would have given Rodriguez a run for his money... Napoles had the highest win ratio and KO ratio of the 3.
People tend to underrate Napoles because he cut so easily... He had outstanding boxing skills and his wins over Curtis Cokes are classics.
I rank Gavilan 3rd because of his poor punching power and lack of polish... He had the greatest chin, but his boxing skills weren't top rate.
Re:
Posted: 06 Dec 2017, 17:32
by SenorPipino
enrique wrote: ↑17 Mar 2003, 14:36
AS FAR AS MY FELLOW CUBANS ARE CONCERNED I RATE LUIS AND GAVILAN TIED FOR FIRST AND SECOND FOR NAPOLES.
LUIS- IN FIRST BECAUSE HE FOUGHT ALL THE ANIMALS AND USUALLY GIVING UP TEN POUNDS. HE BEAT RUBIN CARTER, SKEETER McLURE, JESSE SMITH, ROCKY RIVERO, CARL HUBBARD, GOMEO BRENNAN, CECIL SHORTS, JOE MICELI, TONY MUNDINE, VICENTE RONDON, VIRGIL AKINS, YAMA BAHAMA AND WAS THE FIRST TO STOP DENNY MOYER AND GEORGE BENTON. MOST MIDDLEWEIGHTS RAN AWAY FROM SOME OF THESE GUYS AND LUIS BEAT A LOT OF THEM TWICE.
HIS FIGHTS WITH GRIFFITH, EMILE HAD THE HOMETOWN EDGE. ONE OF THE FIGHTS WAS DECIDED ON A SPLIT IN GRIFFITH'S FAVOR BY ONE POINT AND THE ONLY UNANIMOUS DESICION IN THE SERIES WAS LUIS'.
HE BEAT PARET TWICE AND WON BOTH FIGHTS FAIRLY EASILY.
GAVILAN HAD A CONCRETE CHIN AND LOTS OF FLASH AND SPEED AND DEFENDED HIS TITLE OFTEN -ALTHOUGH CLEARLY ONE OF THE BILLY GRAHAM FIGHTS WAS MOBBED IN HIS FAVOR- BUT THE KID WAS A TOP OF THE LINE FIGHTER AND DESERVES TO HOLD -OR SHARE- THE NUMBER ONE SPOT.
NAPOLES WAS GOOD, VERY GOOD, BUT HIS LEVEL OF COMPETITION WAS NOT THE SAME AS LUIS AND THE KID......BILLY BACKUS AND JOHN L STRACEY ARE NOT THE SAME LEVEL OF OPPONENTS AS GRIFFITH, ROBINSON AND BASILIO.
The loss to Backus was by a cut. Mantequilla dominated Backus in the rematch.
And Stracey was the end of the line for Napoles in 1975. He was battering Stracey until the pressure and undoubtedly age caught up with the Cuban great. He never fought again.
Losing to these two men doesn't define the ATG status of Napoles.
Re: Rank the trio of great Cuban welterweights
Posted: 09 Dec 2017, 20:35
by elmersalsa
I rate them like this:
Kid Gavilan
Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles
Luis Manuel Rodriguez