BoxRec

where would he be now????

personally i think he would have had his ass handed to him across there....just read a bit in the ricky hatton book that says that in pivate moments when joe and ricky have spoken joe seems to be disappointed that he hasnt had the chance to fight in the usa.

basically meaning warren has kept joe here fighting stiffs with the exception of lacy inthe last 5 years

if joe had of went to the states he would have been beaten by jones and hopkins...he would be home in wales now with millions of £s but RETIRED knowing that he was good but nowhere near great.

if jones or hopkins had the fights joe has had they would still be champion and in jones case undefeated.

joe has to go across the water or he will be labelled as a fighter who took lno risks in an unfullfilled career

Had he gone to the states, he would have been a massive star. I don't see who around his weight would have beaten him hands down.

Calzaghe should have gone there after the Mitchell fight, when he put on an amazing display getting off the canvas to batter Mitchell to a standstill and get the stoppage.

He wouldn't have been treading water most of the time, turning in shite displays against piss poor opponents, and he would have had three or four big fights.

He may well have been retired by now, and he may even have lost a fight, but he would be held in very high esteem and would be a hell of a lot richer than he is now too.

It's no good blaming Warren for this one in my book, I just think Calzaghe preferred to wait for the big names to come to him, than go over there and hunt them down. I'm pretty sure that he would have Beaten Hopkins at the time they were meant to fight, as the old warhorse didn't have the workrate, Tarver, too lazy. Johnson would have given him a bloody good argument, due to his toughness and determination, but Calzaghe's movement would have given him an edge.

boxerbob wrote:where would he be now????

personally i think he would have had his ass handed to him across there....just read a bit in the ricky hatton book that says that in pivate moments when joe and ricky have spoken joe seems to be disappointed that he hasnt had the chance to fight in the usa.

basically meaning warren has kept joe here fighting stiffs with the exception of lacy inthe last 5 years

if joe had of went to the states he would have been beaten by jones and hopkins...he would be home in wales now with millions of £s but RETIRED knowing that he was good but nowhere near great.

if jones or hopkins had the fights joe has had they would still be champion and in jones case undefeated.

joe has to go across the water or he will be labelled as a fighter who took lno risks in an unfullfilled career

he could have beaten Hopkins and he would've handed Lacy his head on a pike anywhere. You're spouting cliched talk about America - are you seriously saying Brewer, Mitchell and maybe Glen Johnson would have left him out for the count?

You could criticise Roy Jones for putting off Tarver as long as he could then losing 2 of 3. You could get onto Hopkins about calling out EVERY 168-175 pound champ yet only fighting Tarver when he was shot.

With Calzaghe it sadly always is a case of IF, which will mar his chances of getting in the hall of fame. I believe you're wrong that he would have found he was good not great. When Joe does test himself is when we see his huge potential. The Lacy beating was astonishing, the way he took it up another level and gave him a 100 punch a round beating - every round.

He was pretty impressive vs Brewer, Mitchell, Sheika (coming off a win over Glen) & Woodhall as well. At his best he's an all action fighter with a workrate that is unreal for a super middle. At worst, he's willing to sit in mediocrity and allow big fights to blow away like bubbles.

If he beats Kessler, than all is well. That's better than going to America and fighting a Jermain Taylor.

I would like to see Joe cash in in America after. Right now there is more important business. Maybe if man-of-the-moment Pavlik batters Taylor, he'd get good money surely for Pavlik

Why Boxerbob, who do you feel would have handed him his ass?

He's been the best super middle for years....

However, I am pissed off that Kessler is coming over here after all that hoo-haa about Joe going over there.

Warren gets on my effing nerves...

Jones and Hopkins would have beaten him 5 years ago, maybe Tarver. Calzaghe would have given them all great fights, and beaten all the other Yanks

Tarver wouldn't have, and I think it would have been close with B-Hop and Jones, would have loved to have seen them happen...

Sadly the obsession with keeping home advantage has left Calzaghe pretty much a joke figure...

Sad thing is I think he could have been pretty good, sadly he is and always will be in Hattons shadow..

dr_devious wrote:Jones and Hopkins would have beaten him 5 years ago, maybe Tarver. Calzaghe would have given them all great fights, and beaten all the other Yanks

Jones yes, Hopkins, not for me. Crafty as old Bernard is, I don't see even 5 years ago him being able to outwork Joe.

Jones Jr 5 years ago though, would have done Calzaghe up, though Joe's handspeed would have made it a harder nights work for him than some.

What in gods name has Tarver shown to indicate he would beat Calzaghe? His best win is over Glen Johnson, and Johnson ran him close in both. Jones Jr was clearly physically wrecked at light heavyweight in their first and second fights, and gunshy in their third.

Well said....

Well said....

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

dr_devious wrote:Jones and Hopkins would have beaten him 5 years ago, maybe Tarver. Calzaghe would have given them all great fights, and beaten all the other Yanks

Jones yes, Hopkins, not for me. Crafty as old Bernard is, I don't see even 5 years ago him being able to outwork Joe.

Jones Jr 5 years ago though, would have done Calzaghe up, though Joe's handspeed would have made it a harder nights work for him than some.

What in gods name has Tarver shown to indicate he would beat Calzaghe?.

Fully agree Mr McDonnell.

thepocketrocket wrote:Sadly the obsession with keeping home advantage has left Calzaghe pretty much a joke figure.....

Bit too harsh, but do agree with the principle of it.

Captain Hook wrote:Tarver wouldn't have, and I think it would have been close with B-Hop and Jones, would have loved to have seen them happen...

Agreed.


cheers

"T.M.K"

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

dr_devious wrote:Jones and Hopkins would have beaten him 5 years ago, maybe Tarver. Calzaghe would have given them all great fights, and beaten all the other Yanks

Jones yes, Hopkins, not for me. Crafty as old Bernard is, I don't see even 5 years ago him being able to outwork Joe.

Jones Jr 5 years ago though, would have done Calzaghe up, though Joe's handspeed would have made it a harder nights work for him than some.

What in gods name has Tarver shown to indicate he would beat Calzaghe? His best win is over Glen Johnson, and Johnson ran him close in both. Jones Jr was clearly physically wrecked at light heavyweight in their first and second fights, and gunshy in their third.

Who has Joe beaten that is anywhere near BHops level?
Also, Tarver is a top light heavy, good boxer with decent speed and power, would have a size advantage over Joe and would have been a difficult nights work for him.

Good to hear from you Colin....

dr_devious wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

dr_devious wrote:Jones and Hopkins would have beaten him 5 years ago, maybe Tarver. Calzaghe would have given them all great fights, and beaten all the other Yanks

Jones yes, Hopkins, not for me. Crafty as old Bernard is, I don't see even 5 years ago him being able to outwork Joe.

Jones Jr 5 years ago though, would have done Calzaghe up, though Joe's handspeed would have made it a harder nights work for him than some.

What in gods name has Tarver shown to indicate he would beat Calzaghe? His best win is over Glen Johnson, and Johnson ran him close in both. Jones Jr was clearly physically wrecked at light heavyweight in their first and second fights, and gunshy in their third.

Who has Joe beaten that is anywhere near BHops level?
Also, Tarver is a top light heavy, good boxer with decent speed and power, would have a size advantage over Joe and would have been a difficult nights work for him.

Johnson started his career at MW, and was able to handle Tarver pretty well for all his size advantages. Tarver is a lazy bastard, and vastly overrated based on his win over a wrecked Jones Jr.

I would pick Johnson to give Calzaghe a rougher night than Tarver personally, based on toughness and his swarming style.

boxerbob wrote:where would he be now????

personally i think he would have had his ass handed to him across there....just read a bit in the ricky hatton book that says that in pivate moments when joe and ricky have spoken joe seems to be disappointed that he hasnt had the chance to fight in the usa.

basically meaning warren has kept joe here fighting stiffs with the exception of lacy inthe last 5 years

if joe had of went to the states he would have been beaten by jones and hopkins...he would be home in wales now with millions of £s but RETIRED knowing that he was good but nowhere near great.

if jones or hopkins had the fights joe has had they would still be champion and in jones case undefeated.

joe has to go across the water or he will be labelled as a fighter who took lno risks in an unfullfilled career

bit of a dubious source considering the book has been withdrawn from the shops due to incorrect and damaging statements, dont you think?

and joe fighting stiffs? fair enough manfredo, salem and bika but he has had his fair share of decent opponents over the years. funny hoe the one that everyone rated the highest was the one who got totally schooled.

and why is it that FW kept joe here? he has renewed his contract several times over the years, so if he was that desperate to go to the states and warren wasnt willing, why not let it run down and go over there with someone else?

If Calzaghe beats Kessler and maybe another big name - say Pavlik - then retires undefeated, history will in some ways be kinder to him than Jones Jr (beaten by Tarver) and Hopkins (beaten by Taylor).

Tarver and Taylor are of pretty poor repute right now.


IMO Calzaghe beats Johnson, Tarver, Hopkins
Calzaghe loses to prime Jones Jr & Dawson

Some ppl are overlooking that Hopkins fought dull alphabet defenses by CHOICE and so did Jones, despite being in the US and hardly cut off from big chances (in Hop's case, after 2001 the world was his oyster yet he didn't have another big fight for 3 years...).

Joe is a frustrating fighter who seems to shy away from big stages, yet that doesn't say anything about his ability level.

Autobarn wrote:If Calzaghe beats Kessler and maybe another big name - say Pavlik - then retires undefeated, history will in some ways be kinder to him than Jones Jr (beaten by Tarver) and Hopkins (beaten by Taylor).

Tarver and Taylor are of pretty poor repute right now.


IMO Calzaghe beats Johnson, Tarver, Hopkins
Calzaghe loses to prime Jones Jr & Dawson

Some ppl are overlooking that Hopkins fought dull alphabet defenses by CHOICE and so did Jones, despite being in the US and hardly cut off from big chances (in Hop's case, after 2001 the world was his oyster yet he didn't have another big fight for 3 years...).

Joe is a frustrating fighter who seems to shy away from big stages, yet that doesn't say anything about his ability level.

To be fair to Hopkins, he was very unfashionable, and the middleweight division was utterly lacking in cachet. He hung onto those titles because it was the only way he could really keep on going. Nobody really wanted to see him fight, and nobody gave a damn about the division.

He made a major major balls up though after beating Trinidad, he could have been in any number of big fights, and let them all slip away until he fought Oscar, but then he went and lost to Taylor mainly because Taylor was young, strong and prepared to push the issue.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Autobarn wrote:If Calzaghe beats Kessler and maybe another big name - say Pavlik - then retires undefeated, history will in some ways be kinder to him than Jones Jr (beaten by Tarver) and Hopkins (beaten by Taylor).

Tarver and Taylor are of pretty poor repute right now.


IMO Calzaghe beats Johnson, Tarver, Hopkins
Calzaghe loses to prime Jones Jr & Dawson

Some ppl are overlooking that Hopkins fought dull alphabet defenses by CHOICE and so did Jones, despite being in the US and hardly cut off from big chances (in Hop's case, after 2001 the world was his oyster yet he didn't have another big fight for 3 years...).

Joe is a frustrating fighter who seems to shy away from big stages, yet that doesn't say anything about his ability level.

To be fair to Hopkins, he was very unfashionable, and the middleweight division was utterly lacking in cachet. He hung onto those titles because it was the only way he could really keep on going. Nobody really wanted to see him fight, and nobody gave a damn about the division.

He made a major major balls up though after beating Trinidad, he could have been in any number of big fights, and let them all slip away until he fought Oscar, but then he went and lost to Taylor mainly because Taylor was young, strong and prepared to push the issue.

A complete waste of time, post Trinidad. His reasoning was he was waiting out his contract with King. But it's just as likely he wasn't willing to fight a bigger opponent even after calling out the super middle and light heavy champs numerous times.

They would never have taken his pooooooower.

hate it when he says that. it's just cliched talk, almost mindless, because he's never really put much weight behind his shots.

Glen Johnson would of been schooled by Calzaghe.

Those slow ponderous shots he landed on Woods would of not touched Joe.

Jone's Is the only reasonable fighter mentioned you could favour over Joe. Roy couldn't of done that chicken dancing crap or shotgun taunt on Joe though. Jr Jr

Jones would have outclassed Joe five years ago. Jones would have taken full advantages of that open defence and landed shots that Joe wouldn't have seen.

Jones would have hurt Joe, especially at 168 (which I think he could have made comfortably enough in 2002).

Hopkins would have just been too good also, in a dull one. Hopkins would have smoothered Joe's work (Joe can be smoothered as Bika and even Starie did!). The decision might have been controvesial, but Hopkins would have had the nod.

Joe would have beaten Tarver, Johnson and the rest and looked good doing so.

So I guess it would have been down to who he fought in the states.

I believe Jones at 175 is too big and fast. Same with Dawson.

With Hopkins, well Bernard wouldn't have a slow guy who loads up plodding after him like Trinidad. Calzaghe would be too fast paced in closing the gap, quick handed and big for him. Hopkins is tricky inside, but he can also be negative and over cautious and did his best work on welterweights.

Winky would be a good fight for him as well.

It's not a matter of too good. It's more about styles. Jones and Hopkins haven't been "too good" vs Tarver and Taylor. Hopkins, however good, always seemed to find speed/athleticism mixed in with some amateur technique too much for him.

Jones would always have been given fits by a big long southpaw - prime Nunn would've got him pretty convincingly. Everyone has their kryptonite.

Joe has proven he's top level but he hasn't taken on the opponent who's "wrong" for him. If he beats Kessler - a big IF - that's as good as beating any of those guys as Kessler is unbeaten, part unified and an outstanding fighter in his prime and it will have cleared the board at 168.

Kessler also may have the "right" style for Joe, because as fine a boxer as he is, he's is mechanical, rather than fliud.

The way to beat Calzaghe is be able to pop in right hand after right hand. Hopkins lunges in headfirst and in his prime his bullying style was as much down to blatantly fouling smaller guys as being cute inside.

Joe needs Kessler though. He needs him more than Kessler needs Joe.

Very true, especially when you consider their ages...

And it's true Kessler is solid and mechanical, it'll be a tough night for them both. I fancy Joe by 3/4 rounds

thepocketrocket wrote:Sadly the obsession with keeping home advantage has left Calzaghe pretty much a joke figure...

..

As appose to Hopkins, Jones Jr, Ottke & Darius - all greats around the weight, and all remain in their homeland.

If we want to rip Hopkins a bit, he has called out lots of European guys and never committed. He backed out of the Joe fight - Hopkins was NOT doing anything better for the next 2-3 years. Also, Bernard called out Ottke, Michalczewski & Erdei - he was in a career gulf hence the calling out, he needed something - yet he went for Carl Daniels & Joppy.