BoxRec

My list is based on opposition, KO %, and where they would be fighting today if they weighed in (Hence Fitzsimmons at 168):

Heavyweight: George Foreman / Earnie Shavers
190-200: Elmer Ray / Sam Langford
175: Bob Foster / Michael Spinks
168: Roy Jones Jr / Bob Fitzsimmons (mostly under 168 but above 160 during his career)
160: Gerald McClellan / Stanley Ketchell
154: Julian Jackson / Mike McCallum
147: Thomas Hearns / Felix Trinidad
140: Aaron Pryor / Kostya Tszyu
135: Robert Duran / Henry Armstrong
130: Alexis Arguello / Diego Corrales
126: Sandy Saddler / Danny Lopez
122: Manny Pacquiao / Wilfredo Gomez
118: Alfonso Zamora / Ruben Olivares
115: Khaosai Galaxy / Sung-Kil Moon
112: Yuri Arbachakov / Hiroyuki Ebihara
108: Jimmy Wilde / Michael Carbajal
105: Ricardo Lopez / Rosendo Alvarez

I also tried not to use any duplicate entries (hence no Tommy Hearns at 147 and 154).
8)

I feel that a case could be made for Lew Jenkins being
on the list.

- Chuck Johnston

Heavyweight: Joe Louis/Jack Dempsey
Cruiserweight: ST Gordon/Evander Holyfield
Light Heavyweight: Bob Satterfield/Bob Foster
Super Middleweight: Roy Jones/Nigel Benn
Middleweight: Bob Fitzsimmons/Stanley Ketchel
Jr. Middleweight: Julian Jackson/John Mugabi
Welterweight: Pipino Cuevas/Thomas Hearns/”Barbados” Joe Walcott/Ray Robinson
Jr. Welterweight: Battling Torres/Julio Cesar Chavez
Lightweight: Henry Armstrong/Lew Jenkins
Jr. Lightweight: George “KO” Chaney/Ricardo Moreno
Featherweight: Terry McGovern/Danny Lopez
Jr. Featherweight: Wilfredo Gomez/Jaime Garza
Bantamweight: Carlos Zarate/ Ruben Olivares
Jr. Bantamweight: Khaosai Galaxy/Alexander Munoz
Flyweight: Jimmy Wilde/Pascual Perez
Jr. Flyweight: German Torres/Saman Sorjaturong
Minimumweight: Ricardo Lopez/Daniel Reyes

Decagon wrote:

Alabama_Man wrote:My list is based on opposition, KO %, and where they would be fighting today if they weighed in (Hence Fitzsimmons at 168):

Then your list is stupid. Langford weighed in at less than 175 in his prime. Go back to the General section, and pretend to be a fighter.

He weighed over 190 when he fought Andres Balsa, Bill Tate, and Harry Wills, and Tut Jackson. His weight fluctuated between 185 and 195 when he was defending the colored heavyweight title. Stop being a shithead.

btw, where's your list?

.....i wouldn't want to be hit by any of the guys on either list...but i'd put ike williams in at lightweight.

I thought about putting Williams ahead of Armstrong. Though I could put together another list, or even a couple of other lists with all different fighters in each list and they all would be just about as legit and good as the first list. There are several KO puunchers in every division who would be a good choice for one and two.

barry wrote:I thought about putting Williams ahead of Armstrong. Though I could put together another list, or even a couple of other lists with all different fighters in each list and they all would be just about as legit and good as the first list. There are several KO puunchers in every division who would be a good choice for one and two.

Barry, surprised to see Nigel Benn at 168, I didn't think he took all of his power up.

Knucklez wrote:

barry wrote:I thought about putting Williams ahead of Armstrong. Though I could put together another list, or even a couple of other lists with all different fighters in each list and they all would be just about as legit and good as the first list. There are several KO puunchers in every division who would be a good choice for one and two.

Barry, surprised to see Nigel Benn at 168, I didn't think he took all of his power up.

I agree, IMO Benns power didn't have the same effect at super-middleweight. Of his 5 losses, 3 were at super-middleweight plus the draw against Eubank. Also 5 of his 7 career points victories were at super-middleweight, which I think shows his power was definetely at the lower weight.

Yeah that's why I didn't list Benn at 168. He was more of a 160 puncher.

What do you guys think about Roy Jones Jr and Fitzsimmons at 168 as punchers?

barry wrote:I thought about putting Williams ahead of Armstrong. Though I could put together another list, or even a couple of other lists with all different fighters in each list and they all would be just about as legit and good as the first list. There are several KO puunchers in every division who would be a good choice for one and two.

Great list barry.
I think Edwin Rosario deserves honorable mention at lightweight.

Heavy: Louis/Foreman
Lt Heavy: Foster/M Johnson
Middle: Ketchel/ Fitzsimmons
JrMiddle: Hearns/Mugabi
Welter: Hearns/SRR
Jr Welter: Can't think of anyone that stands out. Pryor was an accumilation puncher
Light: Duran/Ike
Jr Light: Arguello/Chico
Feather: Saddler/Hamed
Jr Feather: Gomez/Garza
Bantan: Zarate/Olivares
Fly: Wilde/Too sharp

Off the top of my head. Missed somebody somewhere I am sure. Skipped some divisions that really haven't been around long enough imo.

Some of the lists is good, but are we talking all time great KO artists based on skill or by power? In terms of power Marciano, Foreman and Shavers are the top 3 HW punchers, but in terms of skills and timing Joe Louis, Jack Dempsey and Sam Langford would by the top ones at HW.

May surprise some that I put Dempsey down in that category of timing and skill, but Dempsey's power not only came from him being naturally strong but from his tremendous hand-speed and his ability to get inside and counter most anything his opponents thrown at him. I could very well easily have said that Max Schmeling should have deserved this position as well, as he possibly was the hardest hitting of the 'tacticians' to hold the HW crown.

But, the one thing I don't really agree with is the re-writing of history in this thread, by comparing the old weight classes with today. In my opinion with that logic Joe Louis and Marciano would be the greatest Cruiserweights of all time and not Holyfield, and Fitzsimmons would be the greatest LHW of all time and not the Spinks' and the Fosters' and the Jones'.

There simply is too much of a discrepancy as the older guys fought virtually two or three weight classes ahead of their own ocassionally, such as how Mickey Walker originally started out as a Welterweight and ended up fighting HW's, while Billy Conn started out as a Lightweight and ended up out boxing Joe Louis until he was knocked out.

Simply put, doesn't matter what 'weight' these guys were, they were still beating men much bigger than themselves and could have easily picked up titles along the way; accomplishments sometimes vary the 'results' of these so-called 'ATG' lists.

Alabama_Man wrote:My list is based on opposition, KO %, and where they would be fighting today if they weighed in (Hence Fitzsimmons at 168):

Heavyweight: George Foreman / Earnie Shavers
190-200: Elmer Ray / Sam Langford
175: Bob Foster / Michael Spinks
168: Roy Jones Jr / Bob Fitzsimmons (mostly under 168 but above 160 during his career)
160: Gerald McClellan / Stanley Ketchell
154: Julian Jackson / Mike McCallum
147: Thomas Hearns / Felix Trinidad
140: Aaron Pryor / Kostya Tszyu
135: Robert Duran / Henry Armstrong
130: Alexis Arguello / Diego Corrales
126: Sandy Saddler / Danny Lopez
122: Manny Pacquiao / Wilfredo Gomez
118: Alfonso Zamora / Ruben Olivares
115: Khaosai Galaxy / Sung-Kil Moon
112: Yuri Arbachakov / Hiroyuki Ebihara
108: Jimmy Wilde / Michael Carbajal
105: Ricardo Lopez / Rosendo Alvarez

I also tried not to use any duplicate entries (hence no Tommy Hearns at 147 and 154).
8)

Good looking list - Agree with just about all of them -

Sans - F. Trinidad at 147 (with a number of others)

I'd also put Sorjaturong as the bigger one-shot puncher than M. Carbajal at Jr. Fly

And I'd take out R. Alvarez at Strawweight and replace him with Ex-long time Straw champ. R. SorVorapin


Too bad we never saw Galaxy Vs S. Kil Moon at JBW - Those two were both brutal punchers.....(Though Galaxy went to both the head and body more effectively).

Was Ketchell really that hard of a hitter..? any good fights out their?

meade95 wrote:

Alabama_Man wrote:My list is based on opposition, KO %, and where they would be fighting today if they weighed in (Hence Fitzsimmons at 168):

Heavyweight: George Foreman / Earnie Shavers
190-200: Elmer Ray / Sam Langford
175: Bob Foster / Michael Spinks
168: Roy Jones Jr / Bob Fitzsimmons (mostly under 168 but above 160 during his career)
160: Gerald McClellan / Stanley Ketchell
154: Julian Jackson / Mike McCallum
147: Thomas Hearns / Felix Trinidad
140: Aaron Pryor / Kostya Tszyu
135: Robert Duran / Henry Armstrong
130: Alexis Arguello / Diego Corrales
126: Sandy Saddler / Danny Lopez
122: Manny Pacquiao / Wilfredo Gomez
118: Alfonso Zamora / Ruben Olivares
115: Khaosai Galaxy / Sung-Kil Moon
112: Yuri Arbachakov / Hiroyuki Ebihara
108: Jimmy Wilde / Michael Carbajal
105: Ricardo Lopez / Rosendo Alvarez

I also tried not to use any duplicate entries (hence no Tommy Hearns at 147 and 154).
8)

Good looking list - Agree with just about all of them -

Sans - F. Trinidad at 147 (with a number of others)

I'd also put Sorjaturong as the bigger one-shot puncher than M. Carbajal at Jr. Fly

And I'd take out R. Alvarez at Strawweight and replace him with Ex-long time Straw champ. R. SorVorapin


Too bad we never saw Galaxy Vs S. Kil Moon at JBW - Those two were both brutal punchers.....(Though Galaxy went to both the head and body more effectively).

I actually considered Sorvorapin, I don't have any problem with him in there, he could crack.

Galaxy would probably beaten Moon. Galaxy was the more dynamic puncher, but Moon's destruction of Konadu is one of my favorite flyweight fights of all-time.

Let's put it this way...

Had Ketchell not been killed over some whore in a brothel by Walter Dipley, Ketchell's power alone probably would have kept him as MW champion for another decade. He met and defeated virtually every man he met, who was worth while to face. While the names of some of these men mean nothing today or draw a blank face, the men Ketchell faced were the BEST of his era and he knocked the majority of them out.

Decagon wrote:

Alabama_Man wrote:He weighed over 190 when he fought Andres Balsa, Bill Tate, and Harry Wills, and Tut Jackson. His weight fluctuated between 185 and 195 when he was defending the colored heavyweight title. Stop being a shithead.

btw, where's your list?

He held the World Colored Heavyweight Championship long past his prime. Everyone knows that. He was better earlier on. My list:

Heavyweight: Earnie Shavers/Lennox Lewis
190/200: Jack Dempsey/Joe Louis
175: Sam Langford/Bob Satterfield
168: Lloyd Marshall/Archie Moore
160: Bob Fitzsimmons/Charley Burley
154: Julian Jackson/Tommy Hearns
147: Joe Walcott/Ray Robinson
140: Oscar de la Hoya/Kostya Tszyu
135: Ike Williams/Henry Armstrong
130: Sandy Saddler/Alexis Arguello
126: Terry McGovern/Naseem Hamed
122: Wilfredo Gomez/Erik Morales
118: Ruben Oliveres/Terry McGovern
115: Khosai Galaxy/Santos Laciar
112: Jimmy Wilde/Manny Pacquiao
108: Jimmy Wilde/Saman Sorjaturong
105: Jimmy Wilde/Ricardo Lopez

Santos Laciar

Heavyweight: George Foreman/Joe Louis
Cruiserweight: From 1980 to date? nobody
Light Heavyweight: Bob Foster/Archie Moore
Super Middleweight: Roy Jones Jr/???
Middleweight: Tony Zale/Gerald McClellan
Jr Middleweight: Julian Jackson/Tony Ayala Jr
Welterweights: Sugar Ray Robinson/Thomas Hearns
Jr Welterweights: Aaron Pryor/Kostya Tyzsu
Lightweights: Roberto Duran/Lew Jenkins
Jr Lightweights: Diego Corrales/Alexis Arguello
Featherweights: Sandy Saddler/Danny Lopez
Super Bantamweights: Wilfredo Gomez/Marco Antonio Barrera
Bantamweights: Ruben Olivares/Carlos Zarate...I got to put Terry McGovern too!
Jr Bantamweights: Khosai Galaxy/???
Flyweights: Jimmy Wilde/????
Jr Flyweights: Michael Carbajal/???
Strawweights: Finito Lopez/Rosendo Alvarez

Chuck1052 wrote:I feel that a case could be made for Lew Jenkins being
on the list.

- Chuck Johnston

I would put Chong Pal Park in place of Jones at 168 and John Mugabi in place of McCallum at 154

Decagon wrote:

Alabama_Man wrote:

Decagon wrote:Yeah, I kind of slowed down once I got to 115 too, Elmer.

That's a good excuse for not knowing boxing very well.

I don't know 115 and 105 very well, but unlike you, I know the other divisions, or do I have to bring up the "Semen" Tommy Watson debacle?

Let me help you Decagon, the best puncher at 105 is Ivan Calderon.

markl wrote:Heavy: Louis/Foreman
Lt Heavy: Foster/M Johnson
Middle: Ketchel/ Fitzsimmons
JrMiddle: Hearns/Mugabi
Welter: Hearns/SRR
Jr Welter: Can't think of anyone that stands out. Pryor was an accumilation puncher
Light: Duran/Ike
Jr Light: Arguello/Chico
Feather: Saddler/Hamed
Jr Feather: Gomez/Garza
Bantan: Zarate/Olivares
Fly: Wilde/Too sharp

Off the top of my head. Missed somebody somewhere I am sure. Skipped some divisions that really haven't been around long enough imo.

How about for your Jr Welter:Rene Arredondo

Pretty solid list Dec. I especially like that you gave McGovern credit. I started to list him at 118 as well, but I wanted to have a different fighter for each class.


Alabama Man---look if you want to talk boxing on this forum great...be respectful toward others and talk boxing and you will be fine...do not do that and continue trying to stir up nonsense and I'll just delete any post you make...savy?

and now we return you to your regularly scheduled boxing topic......