BoxRec

Which was Jimmy Young's defining fight? When he beat George Foreman or when he got robbed in the fight against Ali?

Foreman. Ali was a shot 230 pounds, the heaviest of his career to that point. Foreman was in his prime, and the fight was "Fight of the Year".

I would say the Foreman fight was his greatest achievement but I would say the Ali fight was his defining fight . . sums up his career nicely. Seemingly outboxing guys but his defensive/non-punching style enabled him to lose many close fights on the cards.

Or, it could be argued that it was his upset nod over Ron Lyle in Hawaii since it's what put him in line for a title fight in the first place.

Ali's defining fight was his fight against Jimmy Young.

The fight exposed that Ali didn't have a clue how to fight a counter puncher.

And all the good boxers who held the title were counterpunchers.

The fight showed that Ali couldn't adapt once things were going wrong.

Ali missed the same pathetic left slap, the same left jab, and the same sloppy inaccurate right hand for 15 rounds.

He was unable to adapt and do anything else.

The fight exposed that Ali didn't know how to throw a body punch.

Once it was obvious he couldn't hit Young with a head punch,, he never adapted and tried a body attack.

Why?

Because he didn't know how to.

Young hit Ali continually with a left jab. Young hit Ali seemingly at will with right hands.

In each clinch Young landed 3-5 body punches to Ali's always unprotected mid-section. Those body punches alone (at least 20 every round) won Young every round on points.

Young's hands were three times as fast as Ali's.

The fight exposed unmercifully all the flaws and limitations in poor Ali's "style."

Swallow it, Ali salesmen.

The fight showed Ali would not have had a ghost of a chance against any of the great boxers who held the title in the past.

Jimmy Young OUTBOXED Ali. For FIFTEEN rounds.

That is why Ali salesman HATE Young with a passion.

granberry give us your take on the Terrel fight again.

Also the defining fight for Young was a combo of both but more the Foreman fight for sure.

So if we go by granberry's theology the defining fight for frazier must have been Foreman.

Decagon wrote:Does anyone here actually read all of Granberry's posts? I just read the first line, laugh, and scroll to the next post.

decagon wrote here that Ali's "win" over drugged novice Leon Spinks was one of his "defining" fights.

I agree.

LOL.

Since posters like decagon and buzz don't know the fundamentals of boxing and couldn't help a six year old who was trying to box improve one thing about his attempts to box,

they don't have the ability to see how Jimmy Young exposed Ali's flaws and limitations unmercifully for 15 rounds.

The 15 round boxing lesson Jimmy Young gave Ali is the reason Young is hated with a passion by all Ali salesman.

How many amateurish circular left slaps did Ali miss against Jimmy Young? Why did he never adjust and just keep missing and missing the same non professional arm slap?

Why couldn't he land a left jab against Young? Why couldn't he defend himself against Young's left jab?

Why couldn't he land a right hand against Young? Why couldn't he defend himself against Young's right hand?

Why did his own brother yell at him continually during the fight, "You're losing. You're losing." ?

Why did Ali's manager Herbert Muhammed leave the arena before the decision was announced?

Why did Lester Bromberg score the fight 11-4 for Young and and call it "a travesty of a decision" ?

Why do Ali salesman never mention the Young-Ali ass whipping?

Why do Ali salesmen HATE Jimmy Young with such passion?

Decagon wrote:Are each of your posts different, or do you simply post the same four or five posts a couple of times a week? For all anyone here knows, that's all you do.

You know, Albert Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.

I define stupidity as someone who does not know the fundamentals of a subject and yet is compelled to present publicly over and over again the fact that he is clueless on that subject.

decagon knows that Ali's pathetic arm slap with his left that he missed over a hundred times against Young was actually a fine professional level punch and very accurate.

decagon knows that Ali's own brother was actually lying as he yelled to Ali over and over, "You're losing."

decogon knows that Ali actually let Young hit him over and over for 15 rounds with all those jabs, right hands and body shots.

decagon knows that Ali was just faking when he stumbled down the steps from the ring after the fight.

decagon knows that Ali just "wanted" to have Jimmy Young give him an unmerciful boxing lesson for 15 rounds.

Jimmy Youngs defining fight? maybe his schooling of Big Ron Lyle. The late Jimmy Young really seemed to have Lyles number and beat Lyle easier than anyone else, a prime Lyle or near prime that is.

Then there was of course the Foreman victory. many have claimed that Foreman was terribly dehydrated in that fight and was acting strange and paranoid in the dressing room BEFORE the fight. Gil Clancy his trainer at the time said that Foreman listened to him very little in the run up to that fight and was listening more to another camp member (an ex-welterweight who's name I can't recall at the moment). Gil Clancy also claimed Eddie Futch was wrong to pull Frazier out in Manbilla, but that's for another thread.

Anyway, this does not detract from what a remarkable victory for the light hitting but highly skilled Jimmy Young this was. However I always felt that Young had a bit more 'pop' in his shots than many maintain. No matter how skilled you are you need some 'pop' in your shots when you mix with the beasts that Young mixed with.

Jimmy Young got very few breaks in his career. He was thrown to the wolves as a novice professional then was unlucky in his big fights against Shavers (II), Ali and Norton.

The Norton fight broke Jimmys fighting heart, he and many others felt the people that controlled Boxing didn't want Jimmy Young as the Heavyweight Champion. Some claim that the Norton fight was a fix organised by the old gaurd of the Boxing underworld.

Don King made sure he kept Larry Holmes and Jimmy Young far, far apart, no matter how many times Jimmy asked for a fight with Larry.

Soon after the Norton fight Jimmy got into drugs & drink and it was downhill fast after that.

Heartbreaking.

Decagon wrote:Young's win over Foreman was just as controversial as Ali's win over Young.

Umm . . .no.

I can't recall any notable scribes scoring that fight for George.

If you score the 7th 10-8 for Foreman despite no KD you could maybe have a draw.

IMO Jimmy Young should go down as one of the great contenders of all time. Unfortunately, I think he was a wee bit over-sensitive when it came to the game & allowed his disappointments to get the best of him & ruin what remained of his career after the Norton loss.

Had he stayed in shape & remained dedicated, there's just no way that he'd have been beaten by the likes of an Ozzie Ocasio. And most certainly not twice!

Even after that point, he got some bad breaks such as when Gerry Cooney split his eye open with a left elbow & he got stopped.

A defining fight for a 34 year old, 15 pounds overweight champion who was coming off a near fatal fight from which he should have retired...

By comparison, Liston, who was 34 and 5-6 pounds heavier than usual, who had never gone through a Manila type fight, is considered shot or over the hill in his fight with Ali. Am I the only one sensing a double standard there?

Does anyone, besides granberry, have any doubts that Ali from 64-75 beats Young in a non-controversial decision?

Decagon wrote:

I Feel Fine wrote:A defining fight for a 34 year old, 15 pounds overweight champion who was coming off a near fatal fight from which he should have retired...

By comparison, Liston, who was 34 and 5-6 pounds heavier than usual, who had never gone through a Manila type fight, is considered shot or over the hill in his fight with Ali. Am I the only one sensing a double standard there?

Does anyone, besides granberry, have any doubts that Ali from 64-75 beats Young in a non-controversial decision?

Look. By posting this bullshit, you're just asking him to post Granberry Post #107, which explains in detail why Liston threw both fights, and has 11 paragraphs, each of which consists of a simple sentence.

I'm not going to tiptoe around things to avoid a possible stupid response from granberry or from you.

KOJOE90 wrote:
Soon after the Norton fight Jimmy got into drugs & drink and it was downhill fast after that.

Heartbreaking.

That started after the Foreman fight. BEFORE the Norton sham effort by Young.

Young had four fights as himself, 2 with Lyle and the Ali and Foreman fights.

I Feel Fine wrote:
Does anyone, besides granberry, have any doubts that Ali from 64-75 beats Young in a non-controversial decision?

Ifeel fine puts his foot in it again.

Ali certainly had more than "some doubt" since he never gave Young a rematch--even after Young beat Foreman.

You Ali salesmen live in a fairy tale world--were you make up fights that never happened.

Jimmy Young gave poor Ali an ass-whipping for 15 rounds in the REAL world.

joe kurtz wrote:IMO Jimmy Young should go down as one of the great contenders of all time. Unfortunately, I think he was a wee bit over-sensitive when it came to the game & allowed his disappointments to get the best of him & ruin what remained of his career after the Norton loss.

Had he stayed in shape & remained dedicated, there's just no way that he'd have been beaten by the likes of an Ozzie Ocasio. And most certainly not twice!

Even after that point, he got some bad breaks such as when Gerry Cooney split his eye open with a left elbow & he got stopped.

Joe,

Young's trainer and original manager was Bob Brown of Philadelphia.

In order to get the Ali fight Young had to take on two additional managers,
Ray Kelly (black)--a former bodyguard for muslims connected with Ali,
and Jack Levin from Philly.

The end of Young as a fighter was when Bob Brown began dying of kidney trouble and lost control of Young's training. That happened after the Foreman fight, before the Norton fight, which a very sick Bob Brown had no control over.

From there Young's scumbag neighborhood friends took over completely.

From the time Young fought Ali, he was actually managed by Don King.
After the Foreman fight Young was told very clearly by King that he would never be allowed to be champion but could still make some money.

That's when he stopped training.

The Cooney fight was a fake. Young stood still directly in front of Cooney (not his fighting style at all) and let Cooney hit him to the head and body.
That showed Cooney was not a big league puncher as he never shook Young.

When Young got cut they stopped the fight.

granberry wrote:

I Feel Fine wrote:
Does anyone, besides granberry, have any doubts that Ali from 64-75 beats Young in a non-controversial decision?

Ifeel fine puts his foot in it again.

Ali certainly had more than "some doubt" since he never gave Young a rematch--even after Young beat Foreman.

You Ali salesmen live in a fairy tale world--were you make up fights that never happened.

Jimmy Young gave poor Ali an ass-whipping for 15 rounds in the REAL world.

You're an idiot. Lets look at this logically... something you're very uncomfortable with... if you want to talk about the real world, then in the real world Ali has a win over Young... if you want to be analytical and look at the circumstances behind it, then you could say it was a bad decision, but you would also then have to admit that Ali was shot and overweight, and hence the fight was rather meaningless in terms of Ali's abilities as a fighter. Ali in his prime, or even Ali of 2-3 years earlier would likely have beaten Young handedly. But you can't have it both ways and say on the one hand that we have to be real and on the other hand say that we have to put things into context.

granberry wrote:

I Feel Fine wrote:
Does anyone, besides granberry, have any doubts that Ali from 64-75 beats Young in a non-controversial decision?

Ifeel fine puts his foot in it again.

Ali certainly had more than "some doubt" since he never gave Young a rematch--even after Young beat Foreman.

You Ali salesmen live in a fairy tale world--were you make up fights that never happened.

Jimmy Young gave poor Ali an ass-whipping for 15 rounds in the REAL world.

Crankberry, do you remember that time you claimed to have seen a fellow who had been dead for 2 years giving Patterson a lumbar massage during the 1st Ali fight?

Or when you claimed a southpaw throwing a left hook would punch himself in the face?

It was good that you felt so embarressed that you had to take off for a month but now you are back with the same lame stuff.

Come on, tell us about how you once met Jersey Joe in a queue outside a fight venue. The way you gushed about that episode reminded me of my sister when The Osmonds came to England.

granberry wrote:

KOJOE90 wrote:
Soon after the Norton fight Jimmy got into drugs & drink and it was downhill fast after that.

Heartbreaking.

That started after the Foreman fight. BEFORE the Norton sham effort by Young.

Young had four fights as himself, 2 with Lyle and the Ali and Foreman fights.

My understanding was that he only 'dabbled' in drink & pot etc before the Norton fight and it was just after the Norton fight that he got into the heavy drinking and cocaine etc?

Either way it was a shame for him and Boxing.

Jimmy Young just seemed to be one of those guys that was too nice for Boxing (out of the ring politics etc).

a granberry is right on occasion....about as often as one of those centurion plants blooms.

but there are two things a granberry can not seem to do.

1.Speak one single word about the Ali-Terrell fight he just won't speak of it for some reason. Not a word, at all, ever, under any circumstances.

2. Or admit that the Ali-Young fight was a close fight that may have been called the wrong way but was by no means a one sided humiliation. The way say...Ali Terrell was.

Jimmy Young took Ron Lyle apart in the second bout
between the two fighters. Of course, Lyle was
made-to-order for Young.

- Chuck Johnston

dempseyfire wrote:

Decagon wrote:Young's win over Foreman was just as controversial as Ali's win over Young.

Umm . . .no.

I can't recall any notable scribes scoring that fight for George.

If you score the 7th 10-8 for Foreman despite no KD you could maybe have a draw.

Yes . . .what rounds do you have George winning?

Collins,

How does it feel to be nothing more than a stooge who shows up to
do buzz' bidding?

granberry wrote:Collins,

How does it feel to be nothing more than a stooge who shows up to
do buzz' bidding?

Hi Crankberry,

Are the haemmorhoids bad this morning?

Collins2000 wrote:

granberry wrote:Collins,

How does it feel to be nothing more than a stooge who shows up to
do buzz' bidding?

Hi Crankberry,

Are the haemmorhoids bad this morning?

Buzz' stooge Collins offers his trolling on boxrec.