BoxRec

I am curious to know who you think is the best of the 'Alphabet' champs that fought during the late 70s through to the mid 80s. Not so much the current crop of less interesting men.

Mike Weaver
John Tate
Pinklon Thomas
Michael Dokes
Greg Page
Tim Witherspoon
James Tillis
Gerrie Coetzer
James Smith
Tony Tucker
Tony Tubbs


A truely eratic though interesting period of heavyweight history. Talent washed away by cocaine, parties and short lived dreams.

Kym

At full potential Tim Witherspoon.

1.TIM WITHERSPOON
2.PINKLON THOMAS
THEN THE REST.....THEY WERE ALL PRETTY EVENLY MATCHED UP

Witherspoon seemed to fare better compared to the rest and even in his later years was still able to pull of the wins. I also like watching him fight, its ashame that these guys went down the path they did and that most of them are going to be remembered for losing to 'bigger' names.

Kym

Got to go with Witherspoon overall. Dokes had this amazing potential but he just made stupid choices and lit himself on fire, crashed and burned. Witherspoon had talent and seemed to have some self guidance skills in life (for a while).

For so many boxers it's like a driver of a vehicle. The ones that can keep their car on the road have a lot better chance of reaching their destination. Dokes was weaving all over the road in his car, then he hit the shoulder and rolled his vehicle pretty early in the race. Too bad because he was driving a car that probably had a great shot at getting the checkered flag.

I thought Witherspoon beat Holmes. Weaver had Holmes down once or twice in a pretty exciting fight. Holmes was the best Heavyweight of that era, but he had a couple of close calls with them.

BoxBuzz wrote:Got to go with Witherspoon overall. Dokes had this amazing potential but he just made stupid choices and lit himself on fire, crashed and burned. Witherspoon had talent and seemed to have some self guidance skills in life (for a while).

For so many boxers it's like a driver of a vehicle. The ones that can keep their car on the road have a lot better chance of reaching their destination. Dokes was weaving all over the road in his car, then he hit the shoulder and rolled his vehicle pretty early in the race. Too bad because he was driving a car that probably had a great shot at getting the checkered flag.

YOU BEEN WATCHING TOO MUCH NASCAR LATELY.HUH?

Robinson wrote:I am curious to know who you think is the best of the 'Alphabet' champs that fought during the late 70s through to the mid 80s. Not so much the current crop of less interesting men.

Mike Weaver
John Tate
Pinklon Thomas
Michael Dokes
Greg Page
Tim Witherspoon
James Tillis
Gerrie Coetzer
James Smith
Tony Tucker
Tony Tubbs


A truely eratic though interesting period of heavyweight history. Talent washed away by cocaine, parties and short lived dreams.

Kym

Id say Witherspoon
Coetzee amd Weaver were good fighters also.
Quick Tillis never won a belt though.
I wish he did, he was a good guy, alot of fun around the gym.
The fighting Cowboy he was from Tulsa Oklahoma originaly .
He moved to Chicago to kick off his pro career.
I was at his fight vs Weaver.
I also fought on an undercard of his in 1983.
He fought Leroy Boone.
I thought Tony Tucker had a lot of skill also but it seemed as though we shoulda seen more from him.
One story about Tillis.
When he got here from Oklahoma he had all his possesions in a bag.
He was downtown and he put his bag down and was staring up at the Sears Tower in awe.
When he went to pick up his bag at his feet, It had sprouted legs on him and walked away.

Expug

What was your fight record if I may ask.

Did you get to spar Tillis much at all ? He is a fun guy to
watch.

Thanks again

Kym

Robinson wrote:Expug

What was your fight record if I may ask.

Did you get to spar Tillis much at all ? He is a fun guy to
watch.

Thanks again

Kym

Amateur 33-7 thereabouts
Pro 4 - 0 -1
I sparred with him a couple times but he was a lot bigger as I was only middle and Lightheavy.

Of course he was better also.

Good luck with your mma career by the way.

Tubbs gave bowe fits, all of these fighters were hot and cold, but geez they all seem better than todays heavyweights.

Am surprised that Dokes, Page and Coetzee are getting little support from the experts here. I'd like to elaborate more on at least one of these men, Dokes to be particular. Randall 'Tex' Cobb, who had fought and lost to Larry Holmes who was at his best, had taken on Dokes twice in his career; despite Holmes being considered a top 10 ATG, Cobb claimed that Dokes had the fastest hands in the business.

Throw in his fight with Holyfield, it was a barn burner. A man who fell into oblivian, kicked his drug habit, came back and gave the greatest Cruiserweight champion the toughest fight of his career up until then. Sure Dokes would lose by KO in the 10th, but it makes one wonder, how would a more conditioned, focused Dokes have done in his career and against Holyfield.

Of course, he fell back into cocaine, but off and on he had his moments, but the years of physical indifference, drugs and the like always caught up with him; knocked out by Bowe in a round, knocked out by Ruddock inside of four...

Dokes had more potential than most of the men on this list ever had; only Witherspoon beats him, but not by much, only difference between Dynamite and Terrible Tim was that Spoon had more focus and took the initiative, but he lost to equally less capable men, as Dokes done as well.

HomicideHenry wrote:Am surprised that Dokes, Page and Coetzee are getting little support from the experts here. I'd like to elaborate more on at least one of these men, Dokes to be particular. Randall 'Tex' Cobb, who had fought and lost to Larry Holmes who was at his best, had taken on Dokes twice in his career; despite Holmes being considered a top 10 ATG, Cobb claimed that Dokes had the fastest hands in the business.

Throw in his fight with Holyfield, it was a barn burner. A man who fell into oblivian, kicked his drug habit, came back and gave the greatest Cruiserweight champion the toughest fight of his career up until then. Sure Dokes would lose by KO in the 10th, but it makes one wonder, how would a more conditioned, focused Dokes have done in his career and against Holyfield.

Of course, he fell back into cocaine, but off and on he had his moments, but the years of physical indifference, drugs and the like always caught up with him; knocked out by Bowe in a round, knocked out by Ruddock inside of four...

Dokes had more potential than most of the men on this list ever had; only Witherspoon beats him, but not by much, only difference between Dynamite and Terrible Tim was that Spoon had more focus and took the initiative, but he lost to equally less capable men, as Dokes done as well.

Sure Dokes had potential.
So do alot of other guys.
Boxing however is a RESULTS oriented sport.
Hes more known for ruining his potential by snorting it up his nose.
Coetzee knocked him out.
Dokes should have done more.

Expug wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:Am surprised that Dokes, Page and Coetzee are getting little support from the experts here. I'd like to elaborate more on at least one of these men, Dokes to be particular. Randall 'Tex' Cobb, who had fought and lost to Larry Holmes who was at his best, had taken on Dokes twice in his career; despite Holmes being considered a top 10 ATG, Cobb claimed that Dokes had the fastest hands in the business.

Throw in his fight with Holyfield, it was a barn burner. A man who fell into oblivian, kicked his drug habit, came back and gave the greatest Cruiserweight champion the toughest fight of his career up until then. Sure Dokes would lose by KO in the 10th, but it makes one wonder, how would a more conditioned, focused Dokes have done in his career and against Holyfield.

Of course, he fell back into cocaine, but off and on he had his moments, but the years of physical indifference, drugs and the like always caught up with him; knocked out by Bowe in a round, knocked out by Ruddock inside of four...

Dokes had more potential than most of the men on this list ever had; only Witherspoon beats him, but not by much, only difference between Dynamite and Terrible Tim was that Spoon had more focus and took the initiative, but he lost to equally less capable men, as Dokes done as well.

Sure Dokes had potential.
So do alot of other guys.
Boxing however is a RESULTS oriented sport.
Hes more known for ruining his potential by snorting it up his nose.
Coetzee knocked him out.
Dokes should have done more.

expug....good point as we all know boxing is littered with numerous stories of those 3 stooges. Namely...Would'a, Could'a and Should'a.

Robinson wrote:I am curious to know who you think is the best of the 'Alphabet' champs that fought during the late 70s through to the mid 80s. Not so much the current crop of less interesting men.

Mike Weaver
John Tate
Pinklon Thomas
Michael Dokes
Greg Page
Tim Witherspoon
James Tillis
Gerrie Coetzer
James Smith
Tony Tucker
Tony Tubbs


A truely eratic though interesting period of heavyweight history. Talent washed away by cocaine, parties and short lived dreams.

Kym

I think Greg Page had the best skill and talent, though by achievement, it would be Tim Witherspoon.

Actually, James Tillis was never a champion, though he fought so many that it seems like he must have been.

To play the devils advocate, why does everyone pick Witherspoon as if it's a no-brainer?

I'm not saying that I necessarily disagree with Witherspoon being #1, but this certainly isn't a slamdunk.

Ambling Alp wrote:Actually, James Tillis was never a champion, though he fought so many that it seems like he must have been.

To play the devils advocate, why does everyone pick Witherspoon as if it's a no-brainer?

I'm not saying that I necessarily disagree with Witherspoon being #1, but this certainly isn't a slamdunk.

i honestly believe that witherspoon had the talent to be an all time great
he just did not have the determination.

The frustrating thing with most of those guys is that they could put on a
performance that was so incredible and great to watch, yet then they would be blown away or put up a lack luster showing.

Often though it was amongst themselves that they would lose...which makes it for better or worse.

Its interesting as the 1980s closed and the 1990s drew open, these names all became trial horses to the next generation of champions.

Kym

Robinson wrote:The frustrating thing with most of those guys is that they could put on a
performance that was so incredible and great to watch, yet then they would be blown away or put up a lack luster showing.

Often though it was amongst themselves that they would lose...which makes it for better or worse.

Its interesting as the 1980s closed and the 1990s drew open, these names all became trial horses to the next generation of champions.

Kym

As for the "trial horses"-
That's usually how it works in boxing. A fighter gets old, but still is a "name opponent". A prospect who wants to get some publicity without taking much of a risk will fight these "name opponents", who are far past their best.

Yeah...
its often said to see these guys or worse someone like Joe Louis appear as a scalp on some one elses resume.

Kym

Ambling Alp wrote:Actually, James Tillis was never a champion, though he fought so many that it seems like he must have been.

To play the devils advocate, why does everyone pick Witherspoon as if it's a no-brainer?

I'm not saying that I necessarily disagree with Witherspoon being #1, but this certainly isn't a slamdunk.

A little more motivation and Tillis could've beaten Weaver and changed the heavyweight landscape. I could see him even beating some of the others on the list in the right circumstances.