BoxRec

the clinton woods thread provoked me into leaving this, have a look at the proud record of RJJ, and lets hear your opinions of when and why RJJ ceased to be classed as 'at his peak'

I actually thought he looked excellent vs Woods. I think he took one or two more than normal cause he wanted to please his fans and get Woods out of there. He was getting a lot of press criticism at the time for being too defensive. So he opened up a bit.

It was a much better performance than his one vs Gonzalez - argueably one of his worst performances in his main Light Heavy reign.

John Ruiz might be his best win, but I think he had slowed a little then (but was it the weight). Obviously Tarver was THE big deterioration.

rhino222 wrote:the clinton woods thread provoked me into leaving this, have a look at the proud record of RJJ, and lets hear your opinions of when and why RJJ ceased to be classed as 'at his peak'

Just after the Woods fight

Lets be serious here - Woods deserved his shot at the time the pound for pound best fighter in the world - so I am being serious RJJ was at his best when he fought Woods.

Its hard to tell, there has to be questions if he was indeed using steroids and then ceased using them then he would have been weaker, slower with less energy than before ever using steroids. This is because your testosterone levels drop to levels below their normal he used Ephedra, which is a banned substance but not a steroid (and yes I've seen the letter where he tested positive 'what did he test positive for'? uh uhh uhh an anabolic steroid - what testy did he fail - uh uhh uhh - no technical details in that letter....

He probably also fell out of love with boxing at some stage. If he really had problems 'getting up for fights' then it would be hard to maintain his amazing physical gifts as he aged.

I REMEMBER BEING STOOD NEXT TO rjj IN VEGAS AT THE WILLIAMS KLITSCHKO SHOW, HE WAS TINY, ....OOPS..SORRY CAPITALS

he must have seriously juiced up to be 14 st something to fight ruiz, christ, i was about 13st8 at the time and i felt much bigger than him..

rhino222 wrote:I REMEMBER BEING STOOD NEXT TO rjj IN VEGAS AT THE WILLIAMS KLITSCHKO SHOW, HE WAS TINY, ....OOPS..SORRY CAPITALS

he must have seriously juiced up to be 14 st something to fight ruiz, christ, i was about 13st8 at the time and i felt much bigger than him..

Ummmmm - that Spud character was there too!!!

Victor Conte / balco labs / THC designer steroids / roy jones

http://www.blackathlete.com/Boxing/060904.shtml

Interesting articles everywhere...

[quote="Terry D"]
Why would he suddenly want to please fans want he never gave a flying one before? I think he was jaded in that fight. His defence on the ropes was pretty poor and amounted to covering-up but his reflexes in mid-ring did not look great to me.
[quote]

Didn't Roy have some connections with that bout was held. Geography isn't my strongest subject - but I know he is from Pensacola but didn't he class Oregan his second home (or something like that).

Also, the Roy cott thing was really hyped up, not sure Terry if you were on an forums at that time but it was spam after spam after spam (boxingranks had to close down cause of it) and even Larry Merchant was brining it up. The fact that the fight was in Oregan says alot about Roy's popularity. Plus it was the good old Horizontal English man.... The US fight fans were labelling worst things that Richard Hall, Frazier and all the other Bum of the Months Roy let last a few rounds. Roy seemed in his press conferences to be more "hyped" about this fight for these reasons - he spoke of Woods being like a Skoda and he is a Porche and was actually predicting KO.

Woods went out of that fight with a NEW RESPECT from the US fight fans.

Was Tarvers KO over RJJ really nearly 3 and a half years ago? Wow doesn't seem that long ago....

I think Jones had a very long peak which in itself defines him as a true great.

Some fighters are like supernovas, once or twice in their career they could have held their own with very best. If you look at British fighters I put Honeygan and Mcguigan in that category, very short peaks. They were the nuts for maybe 12 months tops.

Jones was the nuts for a long time going from Toney in 94 right through to Woods in 2002. An 8 year peak in my opinion. Sure he wasn't faultless in every fight in that period but he didn't lost many rounds and won titles from Middleweight to Heavyweight. Can't argue with that.

I think it was when he cut all that weight off to go back down to fight Tarver....at that point his footspeed and reflexes weren't what they were...he relied on them so much so it was all to see....as well as that, he work rate dropped and he is reduced to fighting in spurts. I'd be intrigued to see how a fight with Woods or Gonzalez would go now....be totally different i expect

First of all Jones admitted to using a banned substance for 11 years (I'm guessing from the start of his career to the Hall fight?) on a US radio show because he said God urged him to.

As for his peak? Even though Pazienza was seen as a weaker boxer than Toney, the Jones performance against Pazienza rocked the boxing world as much as it did when Douglas KO'd Tyson. Did you see the Jones v Pazienza fight? That was SPECTACULAR. 10/10 faultless dispay of boxing - show me a better one. Whether it was chemically enhanced or not I don't care, it was great to see. He finished it with the most perfect six-punch combination you'll ever seen thrown.

I think he lost a slight edge at 175, he didn't look as sharp as he did at 168 and that was against much bigger (and subsequently slower) guys. At 154 and 160 he was sharp, but at 168 it just seemed to be perfect for his body. Against Percy Harris and Malinga he was far better than he was against Hopkins, infact he looked out of this fornicating world in those fights and scared Chris Eubank and James Toney to death.

G0mez wrote:Victor Conte / balco labs / THC designer steroids / roy jones

http://www.blackathlete.com/Boxing/060904.shtml

Interesting articles everywhere...

Yes but that article is little more than speculation with no actual proof.

STP wrote:I think he lost a slight edge at 175, he didn't look as sharp as he did at 168 and that was against much bigger (and subsequently slower) guys. At 154 and 160 he was sharp, but at 168 it just seemed to be perfect for his body. Against Percy Harris and Malinga he was far better than he was against Hopkins, infact he looked out of this effing world in those fights and scared Chris Eubank and James Toney to death.

Good point, although I think it might be more to do with him not being able to carry the power as effectively as opposed to a loss of speed, reflexed etc. Something like Floyd Mayweather at 147 / 154 - not been as effective, but don't think he is past his prime just past his ideal weight.

stujones wrote:

Terry D wrote: Why would he suddenly want to please fans want he never gave a flying one before? I think he was jaded in that fight. His defence on the ropes was pretty poor and amounted to covering-up but his reflexes in mid-ring did not look great to me.

Didn't Roy have some connections with that bout was held. Geography isn't my strongest subject - but I know he is from Pensacola but didn't he class Oregan his second home (or something like that).

Also, the Roy cott thing was really hyped up, not sure Terry if you were on an forums at that time but it was spam after spam after spam (boxingranks had to close down cause of it) and even Larry Merchant was brining it up. The fact that the fight was in Oregan says alot about Roy's popularity. Plus it was the good old Horizontal English man.... The US fight fans were labelling worst things that Richard Hall, Frazier and all the other Bum of the Months Roy let last a few rounds. Roy seemed in his press conferences to be more "hyped" about this fight for these reasons - he spoke of Woods being like a Skoda and he is a Porche and was actually predicting KO.

Woods went out of that fight with a NEW RESPECT from the US fight fans.

Pretty sure the reason the Jones fought in Oregon was to do with his Jordan(Nike) contract, as isn't that the state where the HQ is? I believe he was there to secure sponsorship.

I though Jones looked brilliant in this fight, his last good performance at light heavy.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Its hard to tell, there has to be questions if he was indeed using steroids and then ceased using them then he would have been weaker, slower with less energy than before ever using steroids. This is because your testosterone levels drop to levels below their normal he used Ephedra, which is a banned substance but not a steroid (and yes I've seen the letter where he tested positive 'what did he test positive for'? uh uhh uhh an anabolic steroid - what testy did he fail - uh uhh uhh - no technical details in that letter....

He probably also fell out of love with boxing at some stage. If he really had problems 'getting up for fights' then it would be hard to maintain his amazing physical gifts as he aged.

Don't be naive. Of course he was juicing. Look at his popeye body for Christ's sake. Just because it was not in boxing's self serving best interests to come down on him hard, don't think it wasn't happening. But the decline, I would suggest, is just as much to do with anno domini. So much of Jones' ability was based on speed and reactions. When he slowed a little, he was suddenly getting caught. I don't buy the 'getting up for fights' argument, because he has an ego the size of the Empire State Building. He just got old, like all of us do.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Its hard to tell, there has to be questions if he was indeed using steroids and then ceased using them then he would have been weaker, slower with less energy than before ever using steroids. This is because your testosterone levels drop to levels below their normal he used Ephedra, which is a banned substance but not a steroid (and yes I've seen the letter where he tested positive 'what did he test positive for'? uh uhh uhh an anabolic steroid - what testy did he fail - uh uhh uhh - no technical details in that letter....

He probably also fell out of love with boxing at some stage. If he really had problems 'getting up for fights' then it would be hard to maintain his amazing physical gifts as he aged.

Don't be naive. Of course he was juicing. Look at his popeye body for Christ's sake. Just because it was not in boxing's self serving best interests to come down on him hard, don't think it wasn't happening. But the decline, I would suggest, is just as much to do with anno domini. So much of Jones' ability was based on speed and reactions. When he slowed a little, he was suddenly getting caught. I don't buy the 'getting up for fights' argument, because he has an ego the size of the Empire State Building. He just got old, like all of us do.

adamiw wrote:I think it was when he cut all that weight off to go back down to fight Tarver....

I agree.

rhino222 wrote:I REMEMBER BEING STOOD NEXT TO rjj IN VEGAS AT THE WILLIAMS KLITSCHKO SHOW, HE WAS TINY, ....OOPS..SORRY CAPITALS

he must have seriously juiced up to be 14 st something to fight ruiz, christ, i was about 13st8 at the time and i felt much bigger than him..

A fat 13st 8lb can easily look bigger than a lean 13st 8lbs.

The Blade wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Its hard to tell, there has to be questions if he was indeed using steroids and then ceased using them then he would have been weaker, slower with less energy than before ever using steroids. This is because your testosterone levels drop to levels below their normal he used Ephedra, which is a banned substance but not a steroid (and yes I've seen the letter where he tested positive 'what did he test positive for'? uh uhh uhh an anabolic steroid - what testy did he fail - uh uhh uhh - no technical details in that letter....

He probably also fell out of love with boxing at some stage. If he really had problems 'getting up for fights' then it would be hard to maintain his amazing physical gifts as he aged.

Don't be naive. Of course he was juicing. Look at his popeye body for Christ's sake. Just because it was not in boxing's self serving best interests to come down on him hard, don't think it wasn't happening. But the decline, I would suggest, is just as much to do with anno domini. So much of Jones' ability was based on speed and reactions. When he slowed a little, he was suddenly getting caught. I don't buy the 'getting up for fights' argument, because he has an ego the size of the Empire State Building. He just got old, like all of us do.

You can't judge if someones roiding based on appearance. 175lbs ripped to shreds with full muscles isn't difficult to achieve for someone constantly training.

Istill thought Jones looked excellent vs Woods, who has gone on to prove hmself a very good fighter.
But, even then, i think he was probably past his peak (prob around '94 - 2000) but he was so far ahead of the pack even when he wasn't in his prime he was still good enough to outclass Woods and Ruiz.

Terry D wrote:
I'm still not convinced he was at his best against Woods. Clinton himself admits that he really came on after the Johnson fights due to a change in his physical conditioning and skills.

Woods himself was not really the fighter he would become at that point.

Hasn't Woods said that his conditional skills/nutritional knowedge has improved AFTER the first two Johnson fights and were the reason for his impressive work vs Hoya / Gonzalez etc.

Thats why I was a little dissapointed with him in the third Johnson fight.

I think its pretty clear the move up to heavyweight and subsequent loss of weight to fight Tarver diminished Jones' physical skills. He'd certainly lost a slight step before moving up to fight Ruiz but was pretty close to his best against Woods.

rhino222 wrote:the clinton woods thread provoked me into leaving this, have a look at the proud record of RJJ, and lets hear your opinions of when and why RJJ ceased to be classed as 'at his peak'

I think Roy Jones peaked with his victory ovr Thomas Tate. Awesome performance.

stujones wrote:

Terry D wrote:
I'm still not convinced he was at his best against Woods. Clinton himself admits that he really came on after the Johnson fights due to a change in his physical conditioning and skills.

Woods himself was not really the fighter he would become at that point.

Hasn't Woods said that his conditional skills/nutritional knowedge has improved AFTER the first two Johnson fights and were the reason for his impressive work vs Hoya / Gonzalez etc.

Thats why I was a little dissapointed with him in the third Johnson fight.

he had a bad elbow in the 3rd Johnson fight, yet still fought a TOTALLY DIFFERENT fight by refusing to back up and engaging all the way. The only thing disappointing washis defense. I still say he'd give Calzaghe a very tough fight.