BoxRec

Ok, lets say that Moorer's management looked past Foreman as an 'easy' first defence and instead went for another former champion and all time great to defend the title against. Holmes was some what more active than Foreman at the time, though he did not have as much appeal, he was however a great name and still a tough opponent.

How do you guys see this fight playing out ?
The Moorer who was beating old man George until he was dropped to lose the title and any respect that many had had for him, after his 'just' win over a sick Holy.

Or Larry Holmes an old man , but his wealth of experience, sharp jab and classy right hand were still enough to embarrass a great many younger fighters.

Kym

Michael Moorer is undersold as a Heavyweight champ & a fighter in general. Moorer was a very good Heavyweight. In another ten outings, he would've beaten Foreman every time (& this comes from a Foreman fan), & he beat Holyfield, albeit very narrowly. No other Heavyweight prior to Foreman had found a way to defeat him either.

In 1994, Moorer would have had too much for a Holmes that was more than ten full years past his prime. Holmes was still a decent fighter at this time but no more than that, which was indicative of how far he had slid. Holmes was old & sluggish like Foreman, but without the punch to pull out a win. If Bert Cooper couldn't put Moorer away when he had him badly hurt, this ancient, lighter-punching Holmes is not going to get the KO either, & he had neither the reflexes or the output to win on points.

Moorer UD12, somewhere in the vicinity of 116-112 or 117-111. Probably not the most exciting fight & obviously wouldn't garner as big a payday as the ever-popular Foreman.

Holmes probably wins the battle if they are both young and in their prime, by his jab alone. Moorer barely wins in a battle of oldies.

Moorer was dominating Foreman impressively for 9 rds, he'd dominate Holmes for 12. Holmes would have his moments tho, like the Holyfield fight.

It is hard for me to believe that anyone feels that Moorer would have defeated Larry Holmes in his prime. Not even close. Larry Holmes would defeat Micheal Moorer by comfortable decision. Moorer never seemed motivated and would not have done enough per round to decision Larry Holmes. If Holmes could take the right hands of Ernie Shavers, the left hook of Gerry Cooney and slug toe to toe with Ken Norton he could take Moorers shots as well. Larry Holmes is one of the 10 best heavyweights of all time.

In '94, Moorer's gonna beat Holmes.

I guess I misread the question. If the fight was in 1994 Moorer does win the fight I agree. Holmes in his prime defeats Moorer.

moorer beats holmes in 1994 prime for prime holmes easy win

He did not beat Foreman everytime in fact he lost the one time he faced him. You claim that Moorer wins nine out of ten. I disagree, after this fight people realised the best way to beat Moorer was to go for the knock out. Moorer may have beaten Holmes in 1994 but Moorer was never the same after the Foreman fight. Prime for Prime Holmes licks him. Lets not forget that Holmes gave a younger fitter version of Holyfield a close fight. Evander was sick when he faced Moorer the first time. That said I would favour Moorer but we all know that Moorer had discipline problems as well this fight would have been good another possible match of the nineties. Gee I wish this heavyweight division was as interesting.

I think that in 1994 if both these two champs met, Moorer wins a Maj Dec or even perhaps a split Dec. I am a Holmes fan, but I think that a more active Moorer who has a quick inside jab is able to at times beat holmes to tje punch.

Larry sends his jab home, but seldom follows up behind it. He also spends a great deal of time on the ropes waiting for a reluctant and stand offish Moorer.

The later rounds slow up as both men, sling single shots, mostly jabs, Moorer throwing 3 to Larry's 1. Holmes does have his moments, his right still finding Michael's head, as well as a sharp upper cut landing on the inside. But it is Moorer who is the most consistent that earns the consensus nod.

Prime for Prim....Larry Holmes. But this is about them meeting in 1994.

Kym

Remind me which southpaws Holmes beat again?

Curiously phrased question... You're not suggesting Moorer had a chance vs an early 80's Holmes?

The original question was for 1994 Moorer vs 1994 Holmes.

I think the peak Moorer drops a decision to the peak Holmes.

Kym

Tantum wrote:Curiously phrased question... You're not suggesting Moorer had a chance vs an early 80's Holmes?

Would i dare suggest such a 'blasphemous' thing?

But remind me where the Evander Holyfields are on Larry Holmes resume? I dont see any.

Moorers best win is greater than any scalp Holmes ever collected.

And if Moorer had the likes of Evangelista, Ocasio, LeDoux and the boys to defend against, he too would have amassed a large number of title defences as Holmes did.

Moorers title wins over Schulz, Botha and Bean are comparable to 15 or so of Holmes title wins. Again, which southpaws did Holmes beat?

Thats all i'm saying....

overhand_right wrote:

Tantum wrote:Curiously phrased question... You're not suggesting Moorer had a chance vs an early 80's Holmes?

Would i dare suggest such a 'blasphemous' thing?

But remind me where the Evander Holyfields are on Larry Holmes resume? I dont see any.

Moorers best win is greater than any scalp Holmes ever collected.

And if Moorer had the likes of Evangelista, Ocasio, LeDoux and the boys to defend against, he too would have amassed a large number of title defences as Holmes did.

Moorers title wins over Schulz, Botha and Bean are comparable to 15 or so of Holmes title wins. Again, which southpaws did Holmes beat?

Thats all i'm saying....

Some people seem to have a ridiculous obsessional hatred for Larry Holmes.

Shavers, Witherspoon, Weaver, Berbick, Cooney plus the Norton title win are all very solid wins, and I'd definetely put the Norton victory on a higher pedestool than Moorer narrowly beating a lethargic Holyfield. An old Holmes was one round away from earning a draw vs a prime Holyfield on my scorecard (I had the same score as Lederman) . . in his prime he clearly defeats Holyfield on points.

Moorer in his prime . . by knockout

Moorer in 1994 . . Holmes loses a close split decision.

I don't hate Holmes.

You rate a 35 year old Ken Norton higher than Evander Holyfield? Hell, you rate ANY version of Ken Norton over Evander Holyfield??? Fair enough.

You also had Holmes nearly scraping a draw in his fight with Holyfield? I would suggest you never judge a fight again.

overhand_right wrote:I don't hate Holmes.

You rate a 35 year old Ken Norton higher than Evander Holyfield? Hell, you rate ANY version of Ken Norton over Evander Holyfield??? Fair enough.

You also had Holmes nearly scraping a draw in his fight with Holyfield? I would suggest you never judge a fight again.

Holyfield on on my card 7-5 . . the wide majority of people at ringside at it 8-4 or 7-5 . . .it was a very competetive fight.

What you fail to point out Mr Dempseyfire is that Holyfield was always on top in that fight & was never in any danger of losing.

Watch Holyfield against Foreman-- on high alert & aware of the 1 shot power in front of him, or against Bowe-- trying to knock his block off every rd and take his heart.

But against Holmes, well.. we all can plainly see its a sensible, safe dull stragety he employs so as not to fall into the Mercer trap.

At one point they both just smile and back off, Holyfield acknowledging he isnt going to follow Holmes to the ropes. Can you imagine Holyfield behaving like this when 'fighting' as he was against Tyson?

He still beat up Holmes even with his foot off the gas, enough to make Holmes turn away after 12 rds & vomit down himself.

If for one moment Holyfield had ever been rattled or felt he was not in control, we all know he would of lit the ring up and battered old fatty from pillar to post.

Moorer had a glass jaw at Heavyweight and I wouldn't have been surprised to have seen Holmes's jab drop him.

Lewis certainly would have dropped him easy with a few jabs and a few crosses.

Something happenned to Holly in their fight that night that prevented him from being the same fighter he wa s6 months earlier when he fought bowe to regain the championsip.

Yeah- Holyfield was fighting a skilled southpaw puncher for the first time in his life. I can see why that might throw him off.

As for Moorers 'glass jaw', well yeah it only took Smokin Bert Cooper, George Foreman and Holyfield to put him on the deck, and those 3 are well known for being feather fisted aren't they.

Moorer got his jaw broke v Frans Botha and took Alex Stewarts best digs, clearly a couple more guys with soft fists.

overhand_right wrote:What you fail to point out Mr Dempseyfire is that Holyfield was always on top in that fight & was never in any danger of losing.

Watch Holyfield against Foreman-- on high alert & aware of the 1 shot power in front of him, or against Bowe-- trying to knock his block off every rd and take his heart.

But against Holmes, well.. we all can plainly see its a sensible, safe dull stragety he employs so as not to fall into the Mercer trap.

At one point they both just smile and back off, Holyfield acknowledging he isnt going to follow Holmes to the ropes. Can you imagine Holyfield behaving like this when 'fighting' as he was against Tyson?

He still beat up Holmes even with his foot off the gas, enough to make Holmes turn away after 12 rds & vomit down himself.

If for one moment Holyfield had ever been rattled or felt he was not in control, we all know he would of lit the ring up and battered old fatty from pillar to post.

Ifs smiffs, so Holyfield "could have" dominated the fight but chose to win a close decision instead??

Holmes vomitted b/c he was 42 years old and exhausted . . he even won the 12th round.

I adusted the simulator for "end of career for Larry Holmes" and Prime Michale Moorer and this is what we end up with.....


http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... highlight=

Holmes was KO'd 2 times in the amatuers by Nick Wells a southpaw but I dont think Moorer could do it, I see Holmes winning a UD

BoxBuzz wrote:I adusted the simulator for "end of career for Larry Holmes" and Prime Michale Moorer and this is what we end up with.....


http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... highlight=

I can actually see that happening.

overhand_right wrote:If for one moment Holyfield had ever been rattled or felt he was not in control, we all know he would of lit the ring up and battered old fatty from pillar to post.

I have absolutely no opinion as to whether or not you are correct in your assumption...

But I laughed my f'ucking ass off when I read this.