BoxRec

Top 10 Hispanics fighters:

1. Roberto Duran – Panama
2. Carlos Monzon – Argentina
3. Salvador Sanchez – Mexico
4. Julio Cesar Chavez – Mexico
5. Alexis Arguello – Nicaragua
6. Carlos Ortiz – Puerto Rico
7. Wilfredo Gomez – Puerto Rico
8. Wilfredo Benitez – Puerto Rico
9. Jose A. Napoles – Cuba
10. Ruben Olivares – Mexico

Please fell free to discuss and to add or delete any fighter as you see fit.

Other fighters that deserve consideration:
Marco A. Barrera, Eric Morales, Oscar De La Hoya, Felix Trinidad, Ricardo Lopez, Manuel Ortiz, Nicolino Locche, Carlos De Leon, Jose Torrez, Pedro Montanez, Luis M. Rodriguez, Kid Gavilan, Antonio Cervates, Ismael Laguna, Vicente Saldivar, Sugar Ramos, Hector Camacho, Kid Chocolate, Carlos Zarate, Panama Al Brown, Pascual Perez, and of course, John Ruiz (just kidding).

The term Hispanic is a bit confusing. Are you really trying to say best Latin American Fighter ?

Rodrigo Valdez deserves an honorable mention.

Guys like Carlos Ortiz, Wilfred Benitez or Wilfredo Gomez by no means should be in the top 10 Latin American fighters.

We seldom forget about Panama Al Brown, Eder Jofre and Pascual Perez. We seldom forget abaout Kid Gavilan, Kid Chocolate and Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles right off the bat.

My top 10 Latin fighters of all time:

1. Roberto Duran (Panama)
2. Carlos Monzon (Argentina)
3. Julio Cesar Chavez (Mexico)
4. Alexis Arguello (Nicaragua)
5. Eder Jofre (Brazil)
6. Kid Gavilan (Cuba)
7. Panama Al Brown (Panama)
8. Pascual Perez (Argentina)
9. Kid Chocolate (Cuba)
10. Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles (Cuba)

These 10 guys above, were too good, too spectacular, too great, and definately top 50 all time pound per pound material

What??? No Heavyweights on the list! What about Tommy Gomez? If no John Ruiz then ffs put in Tommy Gomez, one of the hardest hitting guys the ring ever known.

The original list is a solid one, except to make the point Elmer did about Eder Jofre & the like. That said, Carlos Ortiz is mentioned, & he is a horrifically undersold fighter.

elmersalsa wrote:Guys like Carlos Ortiz, Wilfred Benitez or Wilfredo Gomez by no means should be in the top 10 Latin American fighters.

We seldom forget about Panama Al Brown, Eder Jofre and Pascual Perez. We seldom forget abaout Kid Gavilan, Kid Chocolate and Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles right off the bat.

My top 10 Latin fighters of all time:

1. Roberto Duran (Panama)
2. Carlos Monzon (Argentina)
3. Julio Cesar Chavez (Mexico)
4. Alexis Arguello (Nicaragua)
5. Eder Jofre (Brazil)
6. Kid Gavilan (Cuba)
7. Panama Al Brown (Panama)
8. Pascual Perez (Argentina)
9. Kid Chocolate (Cuba)
10. Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles (Cuba)

These 10 guys above, were too good, too spectacular, too great, and definately top 50 all time pound per pound material

The original thread is top 10 Hispanics or it could be Latin American fighters and Eder Jofre is not from a Latin American country. He is from South America, not Latin America so he should not be included. Second, Please you must be kidding or your ignorance is worst than I thought. Panama Al Brown, Kid Gavilan, Pascual Perez and Kid Chocolate ahead of Gomez, Ortiz, and Benitez. Maybe I should not take you too seriously with a post like that.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:The original list is a solid one, except to make the point Elmer did about Eder Jofre & the like. That said, Carlos Ortiz is mentioned, & he is a horrifically undersold fighter.

That I agree 100%.

Seamus wrote:Rodrigo Valdez deserves an honorable mention.

Yes he does and other often forgotten fighters Cocoa Kid and Jose Basora.

Can we make some room for Antonio Cervantes? Or does he not qualify due to his overly southern latitude?

BoxBuzz wrote:Can we make some room for Antonio Cervantes? Or does he not qualify due to his overly southern latitude?

That's funny I always think of Colombia as our northern neighbor.

Re: Kid Pambele. There should definitely be some room for him

BoxBuzz wrote:Can we make some room for Antonio Cervantes? Or does he not qualify due to his overly southern latitude?

Feel free to post your top 10 and I did mention Cervantes in my original thread as other fighters that deserve consideration.

Borinken25 wrote: The original thread is top 10 Hispanics or it could be Latin American fighters and Eder Jofre is not from a Latin American country. He is from South America, not Latin America so he should not be included. Second, Please you must be kidding or your ignorance is worst than I thought. Panama Al Brown, Kid Gavilan, Pascual Perez and Kid Chocolate ahead of Gomez, Ortiz, and Benitez. Maybe I should not take you too seriously with a post like that.

Of course Eder Jofre is Latin American. Every Brazilian is Latin American. What on earth are you talking about "He's south american but not Latin American?

Secondly, all of those names (Chocolate, GAvilan, Perez, Panama Al Brown) are GIANTS of LAtin American boxing all with a solid and valid claim to even be the best Latin American fighter ever. So I don't understand the allegation of ignorance there... at all.

Broncano wrote:

Borinken25 wrote: The original thread is top 10 Hispanics or it could be Latin American fighters and Eder Jofre is not from a Latin American country. He is from South America, not Latin America so he should not be included. Second, Please you must be kidding or your ignorance is worst than I thought. Panama Al Brown, Kid Gavilan, Pascual Perez and Kid Chocolate ahead of Gomez, Ortiz, and Benitez. Maybe I should not take you too seriously with a post like that.

Of course Eder Jofre is Latin American. Every Brazilian is Latin American. What on earth are you talking about "He's south american but not Latin American?

Secondly, all of those names (Chocolate, GAvilan, Perez, Panama Al Brown) are GIANTS of LAtin American boxing all with a solid and valid claim to even be the best Latin American fighter ever. So I don't understand the allegation of ignorance there... at all.

Is Eder Jofre Hispanic? Does he speaks Spanish? Please read the original thread. It says Hispanics. And all of those names are GIANTS of Latin America but there is no way they should be ranked ahead of Ortiz, Benitez, or Gomez with the exception of maybe Gavilan. Tell me how Chocolate, Perez, and Panama Al Brown deserve to ranked ahead of Ortiz, Benitez, or Gomez? I’ll be waiting for your answer.

In case you need the definition for Hispanic:
1. Of or relating to Spain or Spanish –speaking Latin America.
2. Of or relating to a Spanish-speaking people or culture.
3. A Spanish speaking person.

Last time I heard Brazil spoke Portuguese not Spanish. So what are you talking about?

This was your original statement and the one I replied to:

Borinken25 wrote: The original thread is top 10 Hispanics or it could be Latin American fighters and Eder Jofre is not from a Latin American country. He is from South America, not Latin America so he should not be included.

I appreciate that you are so kind as to explain the definition of Hispanic but It seems to me that you need to revise your understanding of the term "Latin America"

Webster's:

Latin America

One entry found.

Latin America

Main Entry:
Latin America
Function:
geographical name
1 Spanish America & Brazil 2 all of the Americas S of the United States

Wikipedia

Latin America

Latin America (Portuguese and Spanish: América Latina; French: Amérique Latine) is the region of the Americas where Romance languages, those derived from Latin (particularly Spanish and Portuguese), are primarily spoken.

Granted, if you meant to rank only Hispanic fighters, then Jofre should not be there. But again, it seems to me that you have a big confusion on what is "Latin America" and "Hispanic America". They're most definitely not the same.

Re: Chocolate. Where can I start? The Cuban Bon Bon. One of The first latin to dazzle MSG in an era where there was virtually no place for latin fighters. Only man in boxing history to fight for 4 different world titles in less than 12 months and one of the few to fight for 4 titles in a lifetime (and I mean real titles not the current nonsense) ...

Re: Panama Al Brown. Latin America's first world champion. A freakish physical specimen. A bantamweight just under six feet. 11 defenses between 1929-1935 all over the world! Six years world champion at a time that there were only eight...

Re: Pascualito Perez. The biggest little man in the history of boxing Olympic champ in 1948, Flyweight champ for 5 years again in a time that there were only 8 world champs. Maybe you didn't know that only two heavyweight champions have more knockouts than Pascualito? That's astonishing and unheard of in a flyweight.

But I would do little justice to these men. Here at boxrec we have the luxury of hosting a handful of men who can tell you more about these wonderful pugilists. Ask our own Enrique Encinosa, who has written a marvelous book on Cuban Boxing History "Azucar y Chocolate".. Ask our friend Panabox for Panama Al Brown. He has done a woderful job compliling history of other obscure and now forgotten but not less great Panamanian fighters. Ask the legendary Martin Sosa, (the argentinian walking encyclopedia) about Pascualito Perez.

That's how I learned to appreciate these men. By listening to others who had read and researched before me.

The sad part of this is that you would probably listen too if I they were to hold a Puerto Rican birth certificate.

Any room in the top 10 for Ricardo "Finito" Lopez?

I think Kid Gavilan belongs in the top 10. He fought on TV a lot in the 50's--a real smart pro who fought them all,was champ, and never stopped in over 100 fights.

Pascual Perez is often overlooked because he didn't fight much out of Argentina. Until Kingpetch beat him he was practically unbeatable and he had 56 KO's for a flyweight! He should be in there too.

I don't know about top ten,but Baby Arizmendi should get a mention. He fought a lot of great fighters,holds 2 wins over Armstrong,not much of a puncher ,had a lot of heart. Had well over 100 fights. Many unlisted. Held NY version of feather title win over Belloise.

Broncano wrote:This was your original statement and the one I replied to:

Borinken25 wrote: The original thread is top 10 Hispanics or it could be Latin American fighters and Eder Jofre is not from a Latin American country. He is from South America, not Latin America so he should not be included.

I appreciate that you are so kind as to explain the definition of Hispanic but It seems to me that you need to revise your understanding of the term "Latin America"

Webster's:

Latin America

One entry found.

Latin America

Main Entry:
Latin America
Function:
geographical name
1 Spanish America & Brazil 2 all of the Americas S of the United States

Wikipedia

Latin America

Latin America (Portuguese and Spanish: América Latina; French: Amérique Latine) is the region of the Americas where Romance languages, those derived from Latin (particularly Spanish and Portuguese), are primarily spoken.

Granted, if you meant to rank only Hispanic fighters, then Jofre should not be there. But again, it seems to me that you have a big confusion on what is "Latin America" and "Hispanic America". They're most definitely not the same.

Re: Chocolate. Where can I start? The Cuban Bon Bon. One of The first latin to dazzle MSG in an era where there was virtually no place for latin fighters. Only man in boxing history to fight for 4 different world titles in less than 12 months and one of the few to fight for 4 titles in a lifetime (and I mean real titles not the current nonsense) ...

Re: Panama Al Brown. Latin America's first world champion. A freakish physical specimen. A bantamweight just under six feet. 11 defenses between 1929-1935 all over the world! Six years world champion at a time that there were only eight...

Re: Pascualito Perez. The biggest little man in the history of boxing Olympic champ in 1948, Flyweight champ for 5 years again in a time that there were only 8 world champs. Maybe you didn't know that only two heavyweight champions have more knockouts than Pascualito? That's astonishing and unheard of in a flyweight.

But I would do little justice to these men. Here at boxrec we have the luxury of hosting a handful of men who can tell you more about these wonderful pugilists. Ask our own Enrique Encinosa, who has written a marvelous book on Cuban Boxing History "Azucar y Chocolate".. Ask our friend Panabox for Panama Al Brown. He has done a woderful job compliling history of other obscure and now forgotten but not less great Panamanian fighters. Ask the legendary Martin Sosa, (the argentinian walking encyclopedia) about Pascualito Perez.

That's how I learned to appreciate these men. By listening to others who had read and researched before me.

The sad part of this is that you would probably listen too if I they were to hold a Puerto Rican birth certificate.

You are correct I should not have used the term Latin America because Brazil is in Latin America and that is the reason of why I used in the first place Hispanic fighters.

Now I think you are confusing what I’m saying. First, I do not think for one second that Chocolate, Panama Al Brown and Perez are not all-time great fighters and I have read some wonderful articles about them. I’m not even arguing that there are not great because if you read the original post I did include them in fighters that deserve consideration. However, I don’t think they deserve to be ranked ahead of Gomez, Benitez or Ortiz.


Carlos Ortiz fought in arguably the toughest era at lightweights and dominated that division. Has wins over Duilio Loi, Flash Elorde, Ismael Laguna, Sugar Ramos, and a draw against another forgotten great Nicolino Locche. Even our own wonderful Boxrec.com has Ortiz as the number one at lightweight even ahead of Duran. Not even Duran fought tougher competition than Ortiz at lightweight.

Wilfredo Gomez out of 48 fights 42 were by KO, approximately 88% KO ratio. He won 32 consecutive fights by knockout at one point on his career and 17 successful title defenses. Three time world champion.

Wilfredo Benitez what can be said about him. The youngest fighter in boxing history to win a world title at 17 years old and to win it against a great champion and IBHOF Antonio Cervantes.

So again I ask you why you think Chocolate, Perez, and Brown should be ranked ahead of them? I know what they did, but it that enough to be ranked ahead of them?

Borinken25 wrote:
Now I think you are confusing what I’m saying. First, I do not think for one second that Chocolate, Panama Al Brown and Perez are not all-time great fighters and I have read some wonderful articles about them. I’m not even arguing that there are not great because if you read the original post I did include them in fighters that deserve consideration. However, I don’t think they deserve to be ranked ahead of Gomez, Benitez or Ortiz.

Well. if you think they are all-time greats then why did you brand a poster as "ignorant" for ranking them ahead of Gomez, Benitez and Ortiz? It doesn't make sense.

So again I ask you why you think Chocolate, Perez, and Brown should be ranked ahead of them? I know what they did, but it that enough to be ranked ahead of them?

Who ranked who ahead of who? You are now putting words in my mouth because I sure as hell didn't. They all have a valid claim to be in the top 10. But that's another debate altogether.

Broncano wrote:This was your original statement and the one I replied to:

Borinken25 wrote: The original thread is top 10 Hispanics or it could be Latin American fighters and Eder Jofre is not from a Latin American country. He is from South America, not Latin America so he should not be included.

I appreciate that you are so kind as to explain the definition of Hispanic but It seems to me that you need to revise your understanding of the term "Latin America"

Webster's:

Latin America

One entry found.

Latin America

Main Entry:
Latin America
Function:
geographical name
1 Spanish America & Brazil 2 all of the Americas S of the United States

Wikipedia

Latin America

Latin America (Portuguese and Spanish: América Latina; French: Amérique Latine) is the region of the Americas where Romance languages, those derived from Latin (particularly Spanish and Portuguese), are primarily spoken.

Granted, if you meant to rank only Hispanic fighters, then Jofre should not be there. But again, it seems to me that you have a big confusion on what is "Latin America" and "Hispanic America". They're most definitely not the same.

Re: Chocolate. Where can I start? The Cuban Bon Bon. One of The first latin to dazzle MSG in an era where there was virtually no place for latin fighters. Only man in boxing history to fight for 4 different world titles in less than 12 months and one of the few to fight for 4 titles in a lifetime (and I mean real titles not the current nonsense) ...

Re: Panama Al Brown. Latin America's first world champion. A freakish physical specimen. A bantamweight just under six feet. 11 defenses between 1929-1935 all over the world! Six years world champion at a time that there were only eight...

Re: Pascualito Perez. The biggest little man in the history of boxing Olympic champ in 1948, Flyweight champ for 5 years again in a time that there were only 8 world champs. Maybe you didn't know that only two heavyweight champions have more knockouts than Pascualito? That's astonishing and unheard of in a flyweight.

But I would do little justice to these men. Here at boxrec we have the luxury of hosting a handful of men who can tell you more about these wonderful pugilists. Ask our own Enrique Encinosa, who has written a marvelous book on Cuban Boxing History "Azucar y Chocolate".. Ask our friend Panabox for Panama Al Brown. He has done a woderful job compliling history of other obscure and now forgotten but not less great Panamanian fighters. Ask the legendary Martin Sosa, (the argentinian walking encyclopedia) about Pascualito Perez.

That's how I learned to appreciate these men. By listening to others who had read and researched before me.

The sad part of this is that you would probably listen too if I they were to hold a Puerto Rican birth certificate.

HA HA HA HA, THAT IS A GOOD ONE BRONCANO...WONDERFUL POST

Puerto Ricans like this guy borinken is kind of IGNORANT when it comes to Latin Greats

Panama Al Brown, ALONE, is better than any Puerto Rican fighter that ever put on the gloves

elmersalsa wrote:

Broncano wrote:This was your original statement and the one I replied to:

Borinken25 wrote: The original thread is top 10 Hispanics or it could be Latin American fighters and Eder Jofre is not from a Latin American country. He is from South America, not Latin America so he should not be included.

I appreciate that you are so kind as to explain the definition of Hispanic but It seems to me that you need to revise your understanding of the term "Latin America"

Webster's:

Latin America

One entry found.

Latin America

Main Entry:
Latin America
Function:
geographical name
1 Spanish America & Brazil 2 all of the Americas S of the United States

Wikipedia

Latin America

Latin America (Portuguese and Spanish: América Latina; French: Amérique Latine) is the region of the Americas where Romance languages, those derived from Latin (particularly Spanish and Portuguese), are primarily spoken.

Granted, if you meant to rank only Hispanic fighters, then Jofre should not be there. But again, it seems to me that you have a big confusion on what is "Latin America" and "Hispanic America". They're most definitely not the same.

Re: Chocolate. Where can I start? The Cuban Bon Bon. One of The first latin to dazzle MSG in an era where there was virtually no place for latin fighters. Only man in boxing history to fight for 4 different world titles in less than 12 months and one of the few to fight for 4 titles in a lifetime (and I mean real titles not the current nonsense) ...

Re: Panama Al Brown. Latin America's first world champion. A freakish physical specimen. A bantamweight just under six feet. 11 defenses between 1929-1935 all over the world! Six years world champion at a time that there were only eight...

Re: Pascualito Perez. The biggest little man in the history of boxing Olympic champ in 1948, Flyweight champ for 5 years again in a time that there were only 8 world champs. Maybe you didn't know that only two heavyweight champions have more knockouts than Pascualito? That's astonishing and unheard of in a flyweight.

But I would do little justice to these men. Here at boxrec we have the luxury of hosting a handful of men who can tell you more about these wonderful pugilists. Ask our own Enrique Encinosa, who has written a marvelous book on Cuban Boxing History "Azucar y Chocolate".. Ask our friend Panabox for Panama Al Brown. He has done a woderful job compliling history of other obscure and now forgotten but not less great Panamanian fighters. Ask the legendary Martin Sosa, (the argentinian walking encyclopedia) about Pascualito Perez.

That's how I learned to appreciate these men. By listening to others who had read and researched before me.

The sad part of this is that you would probably listen too if I they were to hold a Puerto Rican birth certificate.

HA HA HA HA, THAT IS A GOOD ONE BRONCANO...WONDERFUL POST

Puerto Ricans like this guy borinken is kind of IGNORANT when it comes to Latin Greats

Panama Al Brown, ALONE, is better than any Puerto Rican fighter that ever put on the gloves

same as always talking crap without anything to back it up. Like I said before hard to take you seriously when you post and no reasoning behind it.

Broncano wrote:

Borinken25 wrote:
Now I think you are confusing what I’m saying. First, I do not think for one second that Chocolate, Panama Al Brown and Perez are not all-time great fighters and I have read some wonderful articles about them. I’m not even arguing that there are not great because if you read the original post I did include them in fighters that deserve consideration. However, I don’t think they deserve to be ranked ahead of Gomez, Benitez or Ortiz.

Well. if you think they are all-time greats then why did you brand a poster as "ignorant" for ranking them ahead of Gomez, Benitez and Ortiz? It doesn't make sense.

So again I ask you why you think Chocolate, Perez, and Brown should be ranked ahead of them? I know what they did, but it that enough to be ranked ahead of them?

Who ranked who ahead of who? You are now putting words in my mouth because I sure as hell didn't. They all have a valid claim to be in the top 10. But that's another debate altogether.

So why do you get in argument if you don't know what is going on? This elmer fud always knocking down Puerto Rican fighters because he clearly hate us and other post he has become racist against Puerto Ricans. Where were you when this happen? Nowhere to be found but now you want to jump in this argument. Why? The argument with him is why should Chocolate, Perez, and Brown should be ranked ahead of Benitez, Ortiz, and Gomez and still don't hear anything that validates that. I'm still waiting.

BTW This is the reason of why I brand him ignorant,"Guys like Carlos Ortiz, Wilfred Benitez or Wilfredo Gomez by no means should be in the top 10 Latin American fighters." like always at every turn he is trying to knockdown Puerto Rican fighters. He could have made his own list without making a statement like that one that in my opinion just makes him look like an ignorant.

Borinken25 wrote:Top 10 Hispanics fighters:

1. Roberto Duran – Panama
2. Carlos Monzon – Argentina
3. Salvador Sanchez – Mexico
4. Julio Cesar Chavez – Mexico
5. Alexis Arguello – Nicaragua
6. Carlos Ortiz – Puerto Rico
7. Wilfredo Gomez – Puerto Rico
8. Wilfredo Benitez – Puerto Rico
9. Jose A. Napoles – Cuba
10. Ruben Olivares – Mexico

Please fell free to discuss and to add or delete any fighter as you see fit.

Other fighters that deserve consideration:
Marco A. Barrera, Eric Morales, Oscar De La Hoya, Felix Trinidad, Ricardo Lopez, Manuel Ortiz, Nicolino Locche, Carlos De Leon, Jose Torrez, Pedro Montanez, Luis M. Rodriguez, Kid Gavilan, Antonio Cervates, Ismael Laguna, Vicente Saldivar, Sugar Ramos, Hector Camacho, Kid Chocolate, Carlos Zarate, Panama Al Brown, Pascual Perez, and of course, John Ruiz (just kidding).

Great list, Id put Jofre and Gavilan in the top 10, I dont get why you think Carlos Deleon is so special though

I noticed Borinken's top ten list didn't have Eder Jofre. He was a minature Carlos Monzon. Heavy hands,only lost twice,made a great comeback beating Jose Legra and Vicente Saldivar. Never fought on the East coast or Europe. Probably the most overlooked of the modern fighters. I remember when the Mexicans dominated the bantam division:Olivares,Castillo,Herrera,Martinez,and Pimentel. Jofre would have beaten them all. A very strong fighter.

Borinken25 wrote:
So why do you get in argument if you don't know what is going on? This elmer fud always knocking down Puerto Rican fighters because he clearly hate us and other post he has become racist against Puerto Ricans. Where were you when this happen? Nowhere to be found but now you want to jump in this argument. Why? The argument with him is why should Chocolate, Perez, and Brown should be ranked ahead of Benitez, Ortiz, and Gomez and still don't hear anything that validates that. I'm still waiting.

BTW This is the reason of why I brand him ignorant,"Guys like Carlos Ortiz, Wilfred Benitez or Wilfredo Gomez by no means should be in the top 10 Latin American fighters." like always at every turn he is trying to knockdown Puerto Rican fighters. He could have made his own list without making a statement like that one that in my opinion just makes him look like an ignorant.

Hermano borinken, I was not aware of any personal feuds that might be going on in this board, nor would I want to be any part of them.

As I said, the reason I got involved in this was because it caught my eye a statement of yours where in my understanding you claimed it was "ignorant" to rank Brown, Chocolate and Pascualito ahead of Benitez, Ortiz and Gomez.

Now that you have explained why you used the word ignorant I have no disagreement with you.

As I said many times before, putting fighters in high esteem because of their nationality is not something that one should do. Nonetheless it happens more than often and I myself am guilty for it (although not as much as you, mind you :P ). However, I also believe that putting them down because of their nationality is an even worse crime.

You'd probably be surprised to find out that after Roberto Duran and Nicolino Locche my personal all time favorite latin fighter is your own Wilfred Benitez. And I'm not talking about who's the greatest, who achieved more or a p4p all time ranking. I'm just taking about my personal boxing idols. I grew up in the seventies watching him and I have never seen anyone since with the same telepathic ability to read punches as El Radar did.


Un abrazo, y que viva borinquen,

B.