BoxRec

Yancey is another pen name for poor buzz, who together with his boy Collins is fixated on poster Granberry.

Collins follows Granberry around boxrec and posts juvenile, feminine attempts at posts which never touch on the subject of boxing.

Buzz usually shows up shortly after.

Concerned that his boy Collins has been called out explicitly for being buzz' boy who follows Granberry around boxrec,

buzz now invents a new boy, Yancey.

And where is the subject of boxing in all this?

Nowhere.

But the distrubed FIXATION of buzz and his boy Collins and now Yancey on Granberry stinks up boxrec.

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granberry wrote:Yancey is another pen name for poor buzz, who together with his boy Collins is fixated on poster Granberry.

Collins follows Granberry around boxrec and posts juvenile, feminine attempts at posts which never touch on the subject of boxing.

Buzz usually shows up shortly after.

Concerned that his boy Collins has been called out explicitly for being buzz' boy who follows Granberry around boxrec,

buzz now invents a new boy, Yancey.

And where is the subject of boxing in all this?

Nowhere.

But the distrubed FIXATION of buzz and his boy Collins and now Yancey on Granberry stinks up boxrec.

.

Wow.

Granberry, I have NO connection to the other names you mentioned. For that matter I know no one at this forum or the only other boxing forum I registered for recently.

Actually, from reading some of your recent posts, you impressed me as someone very knowledgeable about the '60s and '70s boxing scene.

My questions to you were sincere.

Joe Frazier happens to be my favorite fighter of all time. I adopted the moniker "yancey" in tribute to Joe's late manager Yancey Durham.

I saw a lot of Frazier around his gym on Broad Street

(until he suddenly raised the gym fees so high that everybody left--which was apparently what he wanted).

Some days there, among the trainers and those who dropped in the spectator section, you could talk to 2 fighters who fought Ray Robinson, and 3 who fought Ike Williams.

It was a tragedy Frazier decided to drive everyone away.

You could never find so many people as I just described in one place.
on any given day !

Benton was always in the corner with the blowhard Futch.

Benton had plenty so say about the crap connected with Ali.

He was cornerman for an amazing amount of fighters who fought Ali.

Benton was the one who had novice Spinks jab Ali in the first fight, where Ali lost his title to a 7-fight novice.

That was Benton's doing.

In the 2nd fight things were so out of control that Benton walked out of the ring and the arena after the 6th round.

Did you ever spend much time around Gypsy Joe Harris?

He and Martin sure were hard luck stories from the '60s.

yancey wrote:Did you ever spend much time around Gypsy Joe Harris?

He and Martin sure were hard luck stories from the '60s.

No, I didn't.

Sports Illustrated shill Mark Kram makes up long "conversations" involving Gypsy Joe in his book selling Ali.

Just as he made up the "quote" from Frazier after the 3rd fight.

yancey wrote:Did you ever spend much time around Gypsy Joe Harris?

He and Martin sure were hard luck stories from the '60s.

Gypsy Joe Harris' career ended when he didn't show up for a weigh in for a Spectrum fight and as a result the whole card was cancelled.

It was known throughout his career that he had a bad eye.

But once they got irritated enough with him as a result of that (not the first time) Joe Grambi gave him the boot, using that as the supposed excuse.

I drove up to Philly for that fight card, and got there at the weigh in just as everyone was coming out of the building, and telling me the card was cancelled for that evening.

One longtime trainer there told me that was proof that the level of boxing was unraveling.

He said, "In the old days, they knew more than that. They would pay a trainer $20 to stay overnight with a retard fighter like that, and get him to the weigh in. They don't know what they are doing anymore."

I still had a good and instructive time that day spending the rest of the day at Frazier's gym.

I was just a boy in the '60s, but what I would have gave to spend some time in that gym watching all those great Philly fighters. It sure would have beat the pool hall.

Didn't know the story about Gypsy Joe missing the weigh-in.

Well at least yancey has straightened you out on the subject of personal identity. Not me, I don't do pseudonyms.

ya know granberry, I'll admit I like Ali, but not to the point that I turn my back on the facts. I read your words with an open mind, but your goin after a fighter that I do have a lot of respect for...and one that you do not have much respect for.....what do you expect as a reaction?

Every weakness of Ali is amplified by your rhetoric....you attack him as if he was a personal enemy...(which I believe may have some truth). For the most part it does not appear to be a rationale assessment.

It does amaze me that you think he was far below par as a fighter when you seem to have a pretty good knowledge of boxing. You seem to have nothing but disdain for him. To the point that I have NEVER seen a single word of praise for him by you on any level.

I don't think you have given him credit for a single win in all of your posts....you must be able to see how that might be questioned by reasonable minds.

Anyway......I await to hear more stories of Joe, whom I alos have a great respect for......oh and you've never mentioned what you thought of Joe's musical career. Did you ever see the Knockouts perform?

I seem to recall hearing Frazier sing an insulting song directed at Foreman prior to their first meeting in Jamaica, but the details are sketchy as this was several years ago. Something along the lines of, "Big shot is all you got. Run with your mouth..." I'm not sure about the rest.

Anyone heard this song or know the details on this?

yancey wrote:
Joe Frazier happens to be my favorite fighter of all time. I adopted the moniker "yancey" in tribute to Joe's late manager Yancey Durham.

Yancey,

What is it about Frazier that made him your favorite fighter?

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granberry wrote:

yancey wrote:
Joe Frazier happens to be my favorite fighter of all time. I adopted the moniker "yancey" in tribute to Joe's late manager Yancey Durham.

Yancey,


What is it about Frazier that made him your favorite fighter?

.

The bobbing and weaving style, the heart, the joy of combat, that resoluteness, the spectacular knockout wins and also the wins by attrition.

At his best, he was so damned indomitable. Remember Quarry I and that primal first round that Quarry won, yet Joe returned to his corner with a smile on his face....he knew he had his man.

To my way of thinking, he was as pure a fighter and warrior as you could get.

Yancey,

On another thread I mentioned than Eddie Machen and Doug Jones (who both fought a young Joe Frazier while they were in the twilight of their careers) said they were impressed with Frazier.

Archie Moore thought highly of Frazier, calling him a "pit bull."

I don't understand why Frazier stopped throwing right hands part way through his career, and stopped his two handed body attack.

He became a one armed fighter, throwing a left hook only, to the exclusion of other things he had demonstrated he could do in his earlier years.

Well, you are probably right that Joe wasn't as balanced as he could have been.

I would assume that Yancey Durham worked with him on this, but I was just a fan from afar and don't really know. I do remember reading somewhere that Yancey used to yell out something like "6-6-2" as a punching routine for Joe. I don't have a clue what the numbers meant....just read it somewhere.

I do remember on that first knockdown in the first Ellis fight, the one where Jimmy collapsed face first, it was a left-right-left sequence that put him down. I would call that an attrition knockdown, just like the Mathis knockdown.

In Quarry II, I definitely recall Joe pitching the right hand pretty good in spots.

granberry wrote:Yancey,

On another thread I mentioned than Eddie Machen and Doug Jones (who both fought a young Joe Frazier while they were in the twilight of their careers) said they were impressed with Frazier.

Archie Moore thought highly of Frazier, calling him a "pit bull."

I don't understand why Frazier stopped throwing right hands part way through his career, and stopped his two handed body attack.

He became a one armed fighter, throwing a left hook only, to the exclusion of other things he had demonstrated he could do in his earlier years.

Ellis didn't have the strength and punch to keep a real heavyweight like Frazier off him.

The outcome of that fight was obvious before it took place.

Ellis threw his right hand over and over in a desperate attempt to keep Frazier off of him. Frazier's pressure caused Ellis to use up his gas tank in a couple rounds.

granberry wrote:Ellis didn't have the strength and punch to keep a real heavyweight like Frazier off him.

The outcome of that fight was obvious before it took place.

Ellis threw his right hand over and over in a desperate attempt to keep Frazier off of him. Frazier's pressure caused Ellis to use up his gas tank in a couple rounds.

Granberry,

I totally agree with your thoughts that the outcome of Frazier-Ellis was obvious before it took place, yet in a pre-fight poll, about 50% of the gathered writers picked Ellis. I remember SI had a pre-fight article in which the writer boosted the chances of Ellis.

Shows about how much some of those guys knew, I guess.

Joe's first big left hook in the 3rd round took it all out of Jimmy.

yancey wrote:
Granberry,

I totally agree with your thoughts that the outcome of Frazier-Ellis was obvious before it took place, yet in a pre-fight poll, about 50% of the gathered writers picked Ellis. I remember SI had a pre-fight article in which the writer boosted the chances of Ellis.

Shows about how much some of those guys knew, I guess.

They are clueless.

That also shows that Angelo Dundee knew how to put his arm around those clueless writers and tell them what to write.

(Ellis was Dundee's fighter).

It was Dundee who brought his own referee, Harold Valan, with him for Ellis' fight with Patterson in Sweden--

with Dundee's stooge Harold Valan having the only vote for the decision, which of course he gave to Ellis despite the beating Patterson gave Eliis.

Dundee and most serious followers of the sport knew what the real score was, and that Frazier was going to take Ellis' head off. You really think that Dundee was that influential to the writers? To the point that they didn't even have their own opinions? They just figured if Angeloe told them, then it must be so? I'm telling you here and now that Angelo KNEW that Ellis was no match for Joe but sure he had to be supportive.

I think the writer's just underestimated Joe. That seems more likely than they just took Angelo's word....words that would certainly be bias to begin with. You think he really held that much sway with the writers?

BoxBuzz wrote:Dundee and most serious followers of the sport knew what the real score was, and that Frazier was going to take Ellis' head off. You really think that Dundee was that influential to the writers? To the point that they didn't even have their own opinions? They just figured if Angeloe told them, then it must be so? I'm telling you here and now that Angelo KNEW that Ellis was no match for Joe but sure he had to be supportive.

I think the writer's just underestimated Joe. That seems more likely than they just took Angelo's word....words that would certainly be bias to begin with. You think he really held that much sway with the writers?

Poor buzz is as clueless as his "writers" are.

Naturally, since buzz' "knowledge" of boxing is limited what these "writers" spew out.

So I can understand that buzz doesn't want them to be clueless as they stumble around trying to make a living.

Tip of the iceberg for the mob Dundee and gasbag Eddie Futch were the experts at telling the retards covering "boxing" what to write.

And the retards were SO GRATEFUL.

They repeat anything Dundee or Futch said as if it is gospel.

granberry wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Dundee and most serious followers of the sport knew what the real score was, and that Frazier was going to take Ellis' head off. You really think that Dundee was that influential to the writers? To the point that they didn't even have their own opinions? They just figured if Angeloe told them, then it must be so? I'm telling you here and now that Angelo KNEW that Ellis was no match for Joe but sure he had to be supportive.

I think the writer's just underestimated Joe. That seems more likely than they just took Angelo's word....words that would certainly be bias to begin with. You think he really held that much sway with the writers?

Poor buzz is as clueless as his "writers" are.

Naturally, since buzz' "knowledge" of boxing is limited what these "writers" spew out.

So I can understand that buzz doesn't want them to be clueless as they stumble around trying to make a living.

Tip of the iceberg for the mob Dundee and gasbag Eddie Futch were the experts at telling the retards covering "boxing" what to write.

And the retards were SO GRATEFUL.

They repeat anything Dundee or Futch said as if it is gospel.

So....if YOU were a writer at that time we could look back and see your pristeen record? What were you doing during this time? Cleaning the gym urinals? Can't imagine why they didn't flock to you and ask questions you certainly could have answered if only someone would have recognized your brilliance.

granberry I'll grant you this.....you are sometimes wrong

But you're never in doubt.

AND I'm sort of inclined to agree with you on the fact that these guys could sway the press. And maybe you're going to think my light has gone off for the first time if I mention that it probably had to do with betting more than boxing.

Poor buzz clutches at his books written by the clueless as the basis of his "knowledge" of boxing.

An edifice built on a totally rotten foundation is hopeless.

Clutch your books close to you, buzz.

.

edit

DaveV17 wrote:Granberry, I agree with you about boxing (sports) writers. Most don't know much about boixng (or most other sports). Most writers were never athltetic and have no basis to understand what they are seeing. The TV commentators are usually even worse. Cosell, Merchant, Lampley, Pacheco, etc. were/are clueless.

When I watch boxing, it is usually with the sound either low or off. I watch for techniques and skills. What the commentators say during the fight and what the writers write before and after the fight mean nothing. If I hear something around the gym or from someone in boxing, I factor it in. But clueless "experts" like Bert Sugar or Jim Lampley or Larry Merchant - who cares what any of them think about a fight or a fighter.

Can you guys agree on a good commnetator? Hast there ever been one? I would have thought that guys Like Cyz, Foreman and Jones might be able to speak to these things,(and they are not always in conflict with the guys you just named though they often are) But apparently it takes granberry and daveV.17 to get it right.

Like I say I'm just tryin to read and learn. granberry...have you ever seen a book on boxing that you liked? If so that will be my next read. Unless the whole problem with information like this is that once you put ink to paper it becomes worthless.

OK, this may be a bit off the subject at hand, but does anyone know if there's any truth to the following story?

When I was a young lad of 17 just starting out at Singer's Gym in downtown Buffalo back in 1978, one of the many stories I heard was about some guy who knocked out Joe Frazier in sparring back when he held the title. The gym's proprietor Johnny Sudac recounted the tale to me as did a few others back then.

But, all these years later, for the life of me, I can't recall who they said it was. All I know for sure was that they indicated that it was some sort of a nobody or a novice of some sort. And, for whatever reason, I was left with the impression that it was a white guy.

Now, I'm assuming that this incident took place either at Frazier's Gym or at one of his training camps.

Any clues? This has been driving me crazy for years.

Can you define, "knocked out" for us?

Beaten so badly they had to halt the sparring session? Knocked down & took a long time to recover? Knocked unconscious?

I'm sorry I can't be of any help, since I've never heard that story. I doubt it carries credibility though. If you could count on Joe Frazier to do anything, it was take punishment. Of all the boxing styles, his as the swarmer was the most conducive to being KO'd, he fought in the best Heavyweight period of all-time, fought some of the best wars in history, & was never knocked out (10-Count).

joe kurtz wrote:OK, this may be a bit off the subject at hand, but does anyone know if there's any truth to the following story?

When I was a young lad of 17 just starting out at Singer's Gym in downtown Buffalo back in 1978, one of the many stories I heard was about some guy who knocked out Joe Frazier in sparring back when he held the title. The gym's proprietor Johnny Sudac recounted the tale to me as did a few others back then.

But, all these years later, for the life of me, I can't recall who they said it was. All I know for sure was that they indicated that it was some sort of a nobody or a novice of some sort. And, for whatever reason, I was left with the impression that it was a white guy.

Now, I'm assuming that this incident took place either at Frazier's Gym or at one of his training camps.

Any clues? This has been driving me crazy for years.

Joe Frazier's son Marvis was knocked out cold repeatedly, as an amateur and professional in a number of workouts.

Very unhealthy.

As for your so-called "story," you'll have to be JUST A LITTLE MORE SPECIFIC.

LOL