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Fighters Who Never Got Back On Track After Their First Loss
Posted: 20 Dec 2007, 23:08
by dagosd2000
I'm watching a replay of the Gavilan/Davey title fight. I know Davey had never lost before losing to the Hawk. Davey was certainly outclassed that night. Sometimes a fighter goes undefeated and then steps up in class and looks bad,never getting back to form. Davey's career floundered around after that night with Gavilan.
I know there are many more examples. Let's kick it around.
Posted: 20 Dec 2007, 23:25
by Tantum
Ricky Hatton
Posted: 21 Dec 2007, 00:36
by Elton John
I have to say Alex Ramos, Gerry Cooney, and John Tate
Posted: 21 Dec 2007, 01:37
by Expug
Later known as a referee, (Paret- Griffith) Ruby Goldstein was a highly regarded lightweight until he was belted out by Ace Hudkins.
After that it seems like the wheels came off and he was kayoed several more times.
Posted: 21 Dec 2007, 06:32
by oliverfennell
Naz
Posted: 21 Dec 2007, 08:46
by Flump
Duane Bobick
Donald Curry
John Mugabi
Tyrell Biggs
Posted: 21 Dec 2007, 20:35
by zojo
Michael Spinks
Posted: 21 Dec 2007, 22:15
by joe kurtz
Jose "The Threat" Baret
Robert Mullins
David Bey
Camacho Jr ( though, his NC with Leija was what really started him on the
downward spiral IMO )
Posted: 21 Dec 2007, 22:46
by sockdolager
Mike Tyson
Posted: 21 Dec 2007, 23:47
by BoxBuzz
Alexandru Manea
Posted: 21 Dec 2007, 23:55
by MEISINGER
john tate and gerry cooney both are great choices
tate was supposed to be the heir apparent to ali
well that was ruined by a surprise knock out loss to weaver
tate never again showed the same form after that fight.
cooney was brought along very carefully fighting some very big names
but they were all past there primes.
he fought a decent fight against one of the greatest heavyweights in history
in larry holmes.holmes was in his prime and taking this fight personally
cooney gave a good showing but was completely out of his league.
he took 2 years off after this fight falling into drugs and alcohol
he attempted a couple of comebacks but was not mentally there
a sad waste of talent on both parts
Posted: 21 Dec 2007, 23:59
by Goodnight, Irene
It is almost a forgotten fact that Cooney got a second title shot in his career & could again have become a champion. Second time around Cooney's opponent was much smaller & quite a bit more fragile, but as mentioned Cooney wasn't the same man who met Holmes a few years earlier.
Posted: 22 Dec 2007, 14:14
by joe kurtz
That's always been the big question with me as far as Cooney's career is considered ...
Did Holmes ruin him with that 13 round beat down, which paved the way for the Spinks & Foreman blow outs that followed? Or was Gerry's chin always a liability waiting to be taken advantage of?
I think Holmes definitely "softened him up" for everyone else.
I have to believe that if Cooney were as fragile as he appeared post-Holmes, then there'd be no way he'd have gone into the 13th round with Larry that night in '82. Holmes was far from being a devastating puncher, but I think he was a bit better of a banger than most give him credit for these days. And, were Cooney's beard as bad as what we witnessed post-Holmes, then Larry'd have gotten rid of him a lot sooner than he did.
What do the rest of you gentleman think?
Posted: 22 Dec 2007, 16:01
by bollox
Flump wrote:Duane Bobick
Donald Curry
John Mugabi
Tyrell Biggs
These are some excellent examples
I'll add Jeff Fenech to the list. After being stopped by Azumah Nelson he lost to fighters that a few years earlier would he have walked through. Infact one of them Calvin Grove when asked about a Fenech fight years earlier, replied in all seriousness "are you serious? you wanna get me killed?"
p.s. whoever mentioned Michael Spinks is IMO way off base. Michael never even enjoyed the fight game and looked at the Tyson fight as his retirement fund
Posted: 22 Dec 2007, 16:25
by observer1
Mike Tyson (Some What).
"Prince" Naseem
Posted: 22 Dec 2007, 16:39
by sweetsci
joe kurtz wrote:That's always been the big question with me as far as Cooney's career is considered ...
Did Holmes ruin him with that 13 round beat down, which paved the way for the Spinks & Foreman blow outs that followed? Or was Gerry's chin always a liability waiting to be taken advantage of?
I think Holmes definitely "softened him up" for everyone else.
I have to believe that if Cooney were as fragile as he appeared post-Holmes, then there'd be no way he'd have gone into the 13th round with Larry that night in '82. Holmes was far from being a devastating puncher, but I think he was a bit better of a banger than most give him credit for these days. And, were Cooney's beard as bad as what we witnessed post-Holmes, then Larry'd have gotten rid of him a lot sooner than he did.
What do the rest of you gentleman think?
Joe, I'd have to agree with you. I think for the Spinks fight Cooney just wasn't properly prepared, mentally or physically. He was in better shape for Foreman, but had another three years of rust built up AND was facing a Foreman who was at his 2nd career best.
I find it interesting that Cooney blew out George Chaplin, who gave Greg Page fits, and Eddie Gregg, who looked fairly impressive to me in previous fights, so easily.
I've got the Cobb-Shavers fight on as I type - Gerry was just interviewed and it turns out it was supposed to be him in there with Shavers that night, but had to pull out due to injury.
Posted: 22 Dec 2007, 17:24
by RAPID1
First of all Spinks wasn't a true heavyweight. As much as I liked
and evryone liked Gerry Cooney, he was a one dimensional fighter with
one punch. I would agree also that Holmes most likely exposed this
weakness and the fight took it's toll on him.
Posted: 22 Dec 2007, 18:14
by granberry
RAPID1 wrote:First of all Spinks wasn't a true heavyweight. As much as I liked
and evryone liked Gerry Cooney, he was a one dimensional fighter with
one punch. I would agree also that Holmes most likely exposed this
weakness and the fight took it's toll on him.
Cooney was never a trained athlete.
He always had a soft midsection.
I knew two fighters who had what amounted to fakes with him.
Cooney lost to anyone who hit him back.
And he wasn't a great puncher, as his "fight" with Young showed.
Young stood directly in front of Cooney and let Cooney hit him both to the head and body.
Cooney was unable to shake Young.
Losing to the pathetic Michael Spinks shows Cooney clearly for what he was.
Spinks was a fraud as a heavyweight, as Tyson showed in 91 seconds.
Those 91 seconds include the 10-count.
Cooney's "trainer" Victor Valle was totally incompetent.
Posted: 22 Dec 2007, 18:20
by granberry
sweetsci wrote:
Joe, I'd have to agree with you. I think for the Spinks fight Cooney just wasn't properly prepared, mentally or physically.
Does your sympathy for fighters not "properly prepared" go BOTH directions, sweetsci?
On his way up Cooney fought a series of "fighters' who were old and shot physical specimens, guys who were not training regularly and got tired after a few rounds of their ten round fights with Cooney, and guys who
COULDN"T PUNCH.
THAT (the last point) is a basic rule when you are bringing along a guy to hopefully look good.
Posted: 22 Dec 2007, 18:48
by Richie Aprille rules
Yori Boy Campas, he seemed the second coming of Roberto Duran coming into the Trinidad fight... of course then he captured a title, but he was never the same fighter, I think.
Posted: 22 Dec 2007, 18:49
by Collins2000
granberry wrote:sweetsci wrote:
Joe, I'd have to agree with you. I think for the Spinks fight Cooney just wasn't properly prepared, mentally or physically.
Does your sympathy for fighters not "properly prepared" go BOTH directions, sweetsci?
On his way up Cooney fought a series of "fighters' who were old and shot physical specimens, guys who were not training regularly and got tired after a few rounds of their ten round fights with Cooney, and guys who
COULDN"T PUNCH.
THAT (the last point) is a basic rule when you are bringing along a guy to hopefully look good.
Wow! What a revelation...
Posted: 22 Dec 2007, 19:03
by Frank Dracman
I can't believe anybody's not mentioned Davey Moore yet.
Posted: 22 Dec 2007, 19:06
by Collins2000
How about Leroy Jones?
Cue Crankberry to come out with the usual pithy comment regarding Holmes and thumbing.
Posted: 22 Dec 2007, 19:30
by RAPID1
Granberry your observations and remarks are sound.
Don't expect the same out of Sweet Scientist and it appears the same goes for Collins2000.. If it isn't... Ali or Leonard.... it's no one.
Posted: 22 Dec 2007, 22:35
by Borinken25
Fernando Vargas was never the same after his first loss.
Another one that I would put in there is Camacho Sr. he won the fight vs Rosario but he was never the same after that fight.