BoxRec

a prime tyson vs a prime lewis who wins and why?

I think that Tyson wins this as he is very capable at bringing down a tall guy like Lewis who at times can be lazy with his jab. At his very best, Lewis made mistakes that would see him in trouble with some one like Tyson's style.

Lewis has the ingredients to beat Tyson, that has been proven, but I think best for best if they met, Tyson's speed, ability inside and his body attacks would make Lewis go onto the defensive quite a bit.

Lewis with his size and skill at using it would slow and tyre Tyson down, leaning onto Tyson and clinching of the jab he would frustrate and burn Tyson out mid way through the fight.

This would not be an easy night for Tyson. BUT he still wins a boring, frustrating and at times tedious fight which teases fans with flashes of excitement.

Tyson's combinations, defence and ability to move inside are sparingly demonstrated and nulified by Lewis.

Lewis's crisp jab is on display at times, but seldom enough. His hard dangerous right hand and upper cut, are present but far from being the trump card needed they are rarely deployed.

Kym

Its a hard one to choose because a prime Tyson is very much different to the Tyson Lewis fought, but that being said ive always felt that Lewis had a blueprint on how to beat Tyson, Jab the tie him up, jab cross tie him up, jab uppercut tie him up, all this while keeping his distance and marking that out with his long jab and using his size and weight to his advantage.
Lets not be fooled, a prime Lewis is quick and focused and the results of Rahman and McCall were when Lewis certainly was not focused or in his prime, If you look at the Douglas fight I feel lewis is every bit of capable of doing a similar performance, but that being said, many choose to believe that wasnt Tyson in his prime, its a shame we'll never know.

When both are on top form, Lewis wins.
Tyson would have stood a great chance had Lewis not taken him seriously, but that would not have happened.

Tyson struggled when facing adversity and when someone like Lewis started to have his moments against him, even a prime Mike would have folded(like he would have done against 90% of the truly great heavyweights)Tyson was not tough enough to beat the likes of a prime Lewis.

well Looking at some of Tyson's Fights in his 80's. He seemed A lot more Fast in Moving and Punching and more on his toes than he was against lewis 10 /12 years on..

i personally say Tyson would take him in a KO / TKO

Tyson, had trouble with taller, rangier men. He went the distance with Bonecrusher Smith and earlier in his career had trouble putting away the taller, heavier Mike Jameson. Lennox Lewis at his peak had pretty fair speed and agility for a man 6'5" and 245 pounds; Tyson also had trouble with movers, such as James Tillis who was passed his best...

But the actual Tyson-Lewis fight does give an indication that Tyson possibly in his prime could have won, as he did stun Lewis in the first round. From then on, it was all down hill. A prime Tyson would have had more heart and ferocity, more speed and definately more defensive; Lewis's huge 85" reach irregardless would have had some difficulty getting to a prime Tyson.

Even so, its still a fight that is just as predictable as flipping a coin. It's really hard to say who would have won, but as time does go on, the more and more I believe Lewis could have beaten him, though Tyson is a personal favorite of mine. I see a TKO in 11 or 12 rounds, for Lewis to win, in a prime versus prime scenario....that or a KO inside of six rounds for Tyson.

Tyson was great at getting under long jabs and right hands and coming up with a BOOMING left hook or right cross, and after that lands there will be another 3 or 4 boomers behind it from all angles.

Look at the Carl Williams fight.

If Lennox can turn it into a long fight and stick to simple jab, right, hold. Double jab, right and hold, he could win by late stoppage.

But if Tyson gets under his shots and comes u with a big counter.....

Lewis would not survive.

My guess is the likely outcome would depend on speed and in his prime Tyson was the fastest HW EVER.

Tyson KO1, 2 or 3.

or slightly less likely: Lewis W12.

"Tyson was great at getting under long jabs and right hands and coming up with a BOOMING left hook or right cross, and after that lands there will be another 3 or 4 boomers behind it from all angles..." - KO Artist

Good observation. While it's worth pointing out Lewis is far superior to anyone Tyson faced during his peak, to believe Lewis wins, you have to imagine he doesn't get caught on the chin. I can't see that as a possibility.

Tyson has more one-shot power than McCall & Rahman, & he was a proficient combination puncher anyway. Lewis has the size & tools to best any version of Tyson, but lacks the speed of execution. He looks as though he is in slow-motion when compared with the young Tyson. When the first combination of fast, heavy blows land, Lewis will fall, & he lacks the heart to recover.

Tyson KO3.

Tyson back in the day also had serious body punches. Something I honestly think more people should have used against Lewis.

HOWEVER....what would the ruling be on the ridiculous groin guard that Lewis often wore up to his arm pits. This would make a difference at points too

Kym

Goodnight, Irene wrote:"Tyson was great at getting under long jabs and right hands and coming up with a BOOMING left hook or right cross, and after that lands there will be another 3 or 4 boomers behind it from all angles..." - KO Artist

Good observation. While it's worth pointing out Lewis is far superior to anyone Tyson faced during his peak, to believe Lewis wins, you have to imagine he doesn't get caught on the chin. I can't see that as a possibility.

Tyson has more one-shot power than McCall & Rahman, & he was a proficient combination puncher anyway. Lewis has the size & tools to best any version of Tyson, but lacks the speed of execution. He looks as though he is in slow-motion when compared with the young Tyson. When the first combination of fast, heavy blows land, Lewis will fall, & he lacks the heart to recover.

Tyson KO3.

Surely if a prime Tyson hook just misses Lewis' glass chin, the wind force created would have the "heartless" Lennox rolling around on the floor, unable tobeat the count

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=u4SQmxIP5Bk

Check that out.


Tyson does'nt beat ANY great heavyweight I'am afraid, and that's what Lennox was.
From the 90s era, Lewis, Holyfield and even Bowe would come out on top against a prime Tyson if they fought a series of fights.

Lewis beat Holyfield and Tyson when both of them were not in their primes nor at their very best. Lewis is not as fast as Buster Douglas.

Tyson by KO in 7 rounds

"Surely if a prime Tyson hook just misses Lewis' glass chin, the wind force created would have the "heartless" Lennox rolling around on the floor, unable tobeat the count

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=u4SQmxIP5Bk

Check that out.


Tyson does'nt beat ANY great heavyweight I'am afraid, and that's what Lennox was.
From the 90s era, Lewis, Holyfield and even Bowe would come out on top against a prime Tyson if they fought a series of fights." - Yiddo

Who called Lewis heartless? McCall & Rahman are two of the biggest hitters of all-time, & the punches they landed against Lewis, "would have KO'd any Heavyweight who ever drew breath."

Tyson by UD Tyson destroyed Frank Bruno twice "No Contest" Lennox lost every round to Bruno before KOing him.
10 top trainers were asked their all-time top 10 boxers.
6 out of 10 chose Mike Tyson in their list!!!!!
Some other conclusions,..Joe Louis was the biggest winner and Lennox Lewis the biggest loser (chosen only 2 out of 10).
They are trainers who were active in the glory days of boxing and remember just what fighters were made of and what the heavyweight division was all about.
Lou Duva
1- Rocky Marciano. (Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, Billy Conn, Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles, Sonny Liston, Ernie Shavers, Jim Braddock and Max Baer. Special mention: Max Schmelling and 'Jersey' Joe Walcott)

"To me, the best heavyweight of all time is Marciano. No one ever beat him! Boxing was his life. There were so many great fighters that it's hard to rank these guys from 1 to 10. Aside from all his faults, I gotta add Liston. He was a good puncher and a good fighter. But one of the hardest punchers was Shavers! He could knock you dead with one punch! Then there's Braddock. A real tough guy with lots of heart. He worked 12 hours a day in a factory, then would go to the gym at night to train. Fighters back then didn't have the luxury of investors! They had to work to earn a living! And, in the old days, fighters knew what they were doing. They knew what they were there for and they got the job done. Also, back in the 30's and 40's, there were only 8 weight divisions. At the time, a light heavyweight was 175 pounds, but he stepped up to fight heavyweights. A good example of that were guys like Conn, Moore and Charles. But you haven't got that today! Today's light heavyweight fighters couldn't carry their (Conn, Moore, Charles) gym bags!"

Jimmy Glenn
1- Joe Louis. (Jack Johnson, Muhammad Ali, Rocky Marciano, 'Jersery' Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Larry Holmes, Sonny Liston, Jack Dempsey and Floyd Patterson).

"It's difficult to pick whose 1-2-3 because there were so many greats. Greats like Johnson. He did more than just fight. He paved the way for black fighters like Ali and Patterson. He broke the barriers and didn't care what people thought. He had guts! He was his own man.... AND he was knocking guys out. But Ali.... he brought boxing up another notch. He really turned things up and brought a lot of money into the sport. Patterson was another. He was the first guy to earn a million dollar purse. And, Holmes. He was a real, real good fighter also. But he never got what was due to him because he lived in the shadow of Ali. Then there is Louis. He's #1 in my book. The greatest of the greats."

Al Certo
1- Rocky Marciano, 2- Joe Louis, 3- 'Jersey' Joe Walcott. (Muhammad Ali, Roland LaStarza, Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney, Jim Braddock, Max Baer and Max Schmelling. Special mention: Billy Conn).

"Marciano and Louis were great, and they were classy guys too. And, Walcott was my idol. So they're at the top of my list. But I don't want to classify any of these fighters over the others because they were all tremendous. I gotta stick Conn in there too. Even though he was a light heavyweight, he moved up to heavy and fought Louis. He had Louis beat up until the 13th round. I'll put LaStarza up there too. He was a tough S.O.B. I'll bet none of the other trainers mention him! (Laughs) In those years, guys never backed away from a fight and they would drop you on your ass. But fighters nowadays? You know what the guys on my list would've done to these modern days fighters? Forget about it! I know what the guys in my era were capable of, and let me tell you... it'd be no competition what so ever! By the way, who'd Angie (Dundee) pick? I'll bet that ole bugger's got Ali in the number #1 spot!"

Angelo Dundee
1- Muhammad Ali. (Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Sonny Liston, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Joe Frazier, Jack Demspey, Max Schmelling and Jim Braddock).

"I don't want to sound biased, but the greatest heavyweight of all time was Ali. There's a reason there. See... before Ali, none of the fighters talked. The manager, trainer, cousin... everyone else talked but the fighter, because they did their talking in the ring. When Ali came around, the fans got to where they wanted to hear from the star. Now when you have star quality, that's the guy who should be heard. Liston belongs in the top ten too because the only guy who could lick him was Ali. Now, I'm going to sound biased again because I worked with him when he came back to boxing... but Foreman is one of the greats too. When he came back, he was a completely changed guy when he won the championship. I don't know if it was the religion or being out of boxing for such a long time. When he first started, he was a tough guy. Then he became a gentle man. I think he got to meet people and he liked what he saw. Holmes and Frazier. I have to put them in there also. Dempsey was Mr. Excitement. And, oddly enough.... Schmelling. He showed people how to hit Louis with a right hand. Then of course, Braddock belongs in there too. So.... I guess I am biased (Laughs)." (Dundee was coach and advisor to movie actor Russell Crowe who portrayed Braddock in the film Cinderella Man )

Gil Clancy
1- Joe Louis, 2- Rocky Marciano, 3- Muhammad Ali. (Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney, Jack Johnson, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Larry Holmes and Mike Tyson).

"Without a doubt, the three greatest of all time are Louis, Marciano and Ali. After them, it's very hard to analyze something like that because there are so many heavyweights that brought different things to the sport. Johnson was a pioneer and a good fighter. In the 70's you had Ali, Frazier and Formen. They were kings. And, I hate to say it, but Tyson belongs up there too. He had so much speed and power. No one could beat him in his prime. No one could destroy Tyson, but he ended up destroying himself. He could have been the greatest heavyweight fighter of all time."

Buddy McGirt
1- Muhammad Ali. (Joe Louis, Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier, 'Jersey' Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Mike Tyson, Larry Holmes, Jack Johnson and Evander Holyfield).

"To me, the greatest is Ali. After that, it's hard to say who goes where because there were so many greats. But, I wasn't impressed with Marciano or Dempsey. But I was impressed with Tyson. He had great speed and combinations.... a really devastating puncher. As for Johnson, he was a really great defensive fighter. He was a very smart fighter and put you into situations that were hard to get out of. The moves that Johnson made, were very surprising to see... especially during the era that he was fighting in. Holyfield... he did it all! Combinations. He was tough. Lots of heart. And, he fought everyone they put in front of him. No matter how big they were. He always took on the challenge. Walcott was a great fighter. Very slick and smart. He could really punch too. But he didn't get his just due until later in his years. Ezzard Charles.... same thing. I think if these guys fought Marciano in their youth, they woulda beat the *Censor* outta him. Al (Certo) picked Roland LaStarza? You're kidding! I wonder if the heat in that tailor shop is gettin' to him!" (Laughs)

Kevin Rooney
1- Joe Louis, 2- Rocky Marciano, 3- Muhammad Ali, 4- Mike Tyson, 5- George Foreman, 6- Floyd Patterson, 7- Joe Frazier, 8- Jack Dempsey, 9- Evander Holyfield, 10- Jack Johnson.

"Louis had the most title defenses and was the longest reigning heavyweight champ ever. So, he's number one on my list. Marciano was undefeated. Then you had Ali who won the title three times. Frazier belongs up there too because he knocked Ali on his backside and beat him under all that pressure in their first fight. Foreman was a killer, even though Ali took him to school. But he came back and became the oldest heavyweight champ ever! Holyfield gets my ranking also. He was a warrior.... and a four-time heavyweight champ too, after everyone kept telling him to quit. Then there's the great Jack Johnson.... the first African American to win the heavyweight title. That was a tremendous feat in itself - for him to get the opportunity to fight for the title in that era. He was 'the man' back in the early 1900's. I put Patterson and Tyson on my list too because they were the youngest heavyweight champs ever. In fact, Tyson could have been the greatest heavyweight in history. He had faster hands than Ali and he punched harder. People say that Tyson would have folded under the mental pressure of Ali. But I know that Tyson would've been a stone cold killer against him. Ali would not have been able to rattle Tyson. But, I'm talking about the Tyson that I trained back in the 80's.... who with me was 35-0 with 31 knockouts.... who used the D'Amato style and trained hard. THAT Mike Tyson."

Freddie Roach
1- Joe Louis, 2 Muhammad Ali, 3- Larry Holmes, 4- Joe Frazier, 5- Evander Holyfield, 6- Jack Johnson, 7- Rocky Marciano, 8- Mike Tyson, 9- George Foreman, 10- James Toney.

"Louis was the best text book fighter.... ever. He was a classic boxer! Then, Ali was more of an athlete. He had a lot of natural ability. Johnson, well he was a fighter that was ahead of his time. He was a little unorthodox when compared to today's fighters, but he was the first black man to break through and win the heavyweight championship. So he had to be a very talented guy to do that... especially in that era. Tyson? Early in his career, he was unbeatable. He feared no one and was always in great shape. Great speed and a great puncher. But Toney, he has the most natural ability and is the most gifted fighter I've ever seen. He's a throwback from the old timers. As a middleweight, he was a good fighter. But as a heavyweight, his punch came with him and he's better now than I think he ever was. He fights more consistently and fights every round. I've never seen a fighter that is so cool in the ring. Nothing bothers him!"

Miguel Diaz
1- Muhammad Ali, 2- Mike Tyson. (Jerry Quarry, Ron Lyle, Riddick Bowe, Larry Holmes, Evander Holyfield, Ken Norton, George Foreman and Lennox Lewis).

"For me there are only 2 great heavyweights and I have them in a dead heat. Ali and Tyson. Unfortunately, we didn't get to see the best years of Ali because he was suspended for 3 ½ years. He had so much style and had a fantastic chin too. On the other hand, Tyson was so great until D'Amato and (Jimmy) Jacobs passed away. Sadly, after that, Tyson lost control fo his life and became what he became. But to me he was a great, great champ. The speed on his punches... not the speed of how the threw them, I'm talking about the 'speed' in which the brain tells the muscle to 'throw' - was unbelievable. I never saw Louis fight live and I really don't know too much about the heavyweights from the 20's and 30's. Very few people are alive today who can say they did. So I can only speak about what I know since my time in boxing from 1965. Quarry was so brave. Incredibly brave. Lyle was great. And Holmes! He had such a great jab... a good chin and was a great all around fighter. Kenny Norton was a tough fighter too. In fact, the best heavyweight fight I ever saw... live, was Norton-Holmes in 1978 when Holmes won the title. What a fight!"

Manny Steward
1- Muhammad Ali, 2- Joe Louis, 3- Larry Holmes, 4- George Foreman, 5- Lennox Lewis, 6- Gene Tunney, 7- Jack Johnson, 8- Rocky Marciano, 9- Sonny Liston, 10- Mike Tyson.




George foreman

1. Joe Louis.
To be honest with you, number two is way off. Joe Louis is in a
class by himself.
2. Rocky Marciano.
Just look at Rocky Marciano's record. Nobody beat him. You can't
take that from him.
3. Jack Johnson.
A big brave cat, because he'd do whatever he wanted and get out of
the way.
4. Muhammad Ali.
Put him down as the GREATEST MAN to ever box, and a hero
bigger than boxing. Once Ali lost his speed, it only showed that
he'd never developed a great defense.
5. Joe Frazier.
Only because he depended solely on his left hook do I rate Joe
Frazier below Marciano. Marciano could hit with both hands.
6. Jack Dempsy.
Jack Dempsy's very name means strength and courage. Other than
Joe Louis, there is not a name in boxing or in sports with more
meaning.
7. Mike Tyson.
A phenomenon. What Mike Tyson was able to do with his speed of
hand and punching power is as phenomenal as what Muhammad
Ali did when he was Cassius Clay with speed of feet. Tyson
deserves to be in the top ten; this is where I put him, the youngest
man to become Heavyweight Champion of the World.
8. Sonny Liston.
If Sonny Liston truly had not lost his cool, had not underestimated a
young Cassius Clay; and kept the same mind set that he had as a
contender, history would have been a lot kinder to him. Sonny
Liston could not believe Muhammad Ali was so fast and had so
much courage. It just made him fall apart.
9. Floyd Patterson.
The First Two-Time Heavyweight Champion of the World.
10. Evander Holyfield.
For standing up to Mike Tyson

Isn't it strange how often Muhammad Ali's name came up with those trainers?

But compared to Crankberry, Dave and RABID what would they know?

Its silly not to have Ali in a top ten of HW greats. Regardless of liking or hating him.

It's interesting to see how many times Floyd Patterson came up, as rarely does he get a spot so high on most peoples lists.

Personally I find it stupid for some one to make a 'list' without seeing all or nearly all of some ones fights. That is why a professionals, trainers or journalists opinion is generally better than 'alifan08' or 'boxaboy1990' internet blog list.

Kym

chiricahua that was a great read it was also very interesting

i think a prime tyson gets into range against lewis and would knock him out... lewis might jab and hold for a few rounds but eventually mike would catch him and i also beleive mike could win a ud a 80's version of mike was superior to lennox lewis IMO

p4p1 wrote:chiricahua that was a great read it was also very interesting

Thanks man.