BoxRec

Mr Robinson

I am curious as to where your Ali worship stems from ?

Im not tryting to be in-flammatory...I am however just curious to know where it came from.

I am just curious is all.

Thanks again.

indeed...


I am far from being an Ali fan :)

I agree with what you say often, just not how you say it.

I feel Ali is a talented and great fighter. BUT as a person he has
alot to be desired. I also find it painful that many people rate
Ali without having seen anyone else fight or having watched all
of Ali's fights.

I was only asking a question...but thank you for asking me
in turn.

Kym

Robinson wrote:indeed...


I am far from being an Ali fan :)

I agree with what you say often, just not how you say it.

I feel Ali is a talented and great fighter. BUT as a person he has
alot to be desired. I also find it painful that many people rate
Ali without having seen anyone else fight or having watched all
of Ali's fights.
I was only asking a question...but thank you for asking me
in turn.

Kym

Which of the posters in here do you feel fall into that category, Kym?

I never said anything about posters here...as so much as people one comes across in the general populace.

Collins2000 wrote:

Robinson wrote:indeed...


I am far from being an Ali fan :)

I agree with what you say often, just not how you say it.

I feel Ali is a talented and great fighter. BUT as a person he has
alot to be desired. I also find it painful that many people rate
Ali without having seen anyone else fight or having watched all
of Ali's fights.
I was only asking a question...but thank you for asking me
in turn.

Kym

Which of the posters in here do you feel fall into that category, Kym?

Look in the mirror, collins.

granberry wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:

Robinson wrote:indeed...


I am far from being an Ali fan :)

I agree with what you say often, just not how you say it.

I feel Ali is a talented and great fighter. BUT as a person he has
alot to be desired. I also find it painful that many people rate
Ali without having seen anyone else fight or having watched all
of Ali's fights.
I was only asking a question...but thank you for asking me
in turn.

Kym

Which of the posters in here do you feel fall into that category, Kym?

Look in the mirror, collins.

Surely it's time for RABID to appear to help you out, you seem to be floundering again...

Robinson wrote:I never said anything about posters here...as so much as people one comes across in the general populace.

Yeah, but you could say that of a lot of fighters. I've encountered people who thought Tyson was the greatest of all time, and have never seen Robinson. I've encountered people who thought Marciano was the greatest of all time, and had never seen a Marciano fight. That's life.

Collins...it is an insult to the proud breed of fish known as Flounder to be compared with this contributor , I assure you that granberry is an entirely different kettle of fish.

Agreed
but I was being specific in my reference to Ali. That does go across the board.

BUT For every boxing doco out there on anything or anyone to do with boxing there are 3 or 5 about Ali.

He is that popular that people just assume with absolute faith that he is the end all.

I wasn't targetting people here as I haven't really worked out a great deal of many people's loves hates etc on here.

kym

Robinson wrote:Agreed
but I was being specific in my reference to Ali. That does go across the board.

BUT For every boxing doco out there on anything or anyone to do with boxing there are 3 or 5 about Ali.
He is that popular that people just assume with absolute faith that he is the end all.

I wasn't targetting people here as I haven't really worked out a great deal of many people's loves hates etc on here.

kym

Because he transended the sport as no other boxer has done.

Anyway, the man in the street today, hell even the sports fan in the street today, knows nothing about boxing. It's been marginalised for many reasons not least by the willingness of the fighters themselves to accept a multitude of 'champs' at the same weight.

True indeed.

More people I come acorss in the under 30 category know who the UFC champion and personalities are but have no idea who is even fighting in the HHW division except for Holyfield.

Now my sport is MMA. But I prefer boxing as a fan. But boxing in general has done itself no favours of late.

My point in regards to Ali is that YES he does transcend boxing, but people claim his talent being the absolute best, without having seen his fights or other mens fights. They go by a T-shirt slogan.

Kym

Robinson wrote:True indeed.

More people I come acorss in the under 30 category know who the UFC champion and personalities are but have no idea who is even fighting in the HHW division except for Holyfield.

Now my sport is MMA. But I prefer boxing as a fan. But boxing in general has done itself no favours of late.

My point in regards to Ali is that YES he does transcend boxing, but people claim his talent being the absolute best, without having seen his fights or other mens fights. They go by a T-shirt slogan.

Kym

I agree. But their 'opinion' of Ali is meaningless for that very reason.

They rarely appear in this forum and if they do they post once or twice and then disappear.

What you do see a lot of in here is the other side of the coin. Those who also know nothing of Ali's boxing career but have decided based on something they heard that he was a fraud.

Crankberry likes to imply that all Ali fans in here are Ali fans rather than boxing fans. I don't think empirical evidence bears this out. His hatred of Ali is so bizarre I sometimes wonder if it's a windup...

I like Ali. I like Louis too. Actually, there are very few great fighters I DON'T like. Why would liking Ali mean you cant appreciate the skills of other great fighters?

As do I.


This is why I posed the question to Granberry in the intial thread. I was just curious.

His posts are just so passionately hate filled. This hatred comes from where?

Kym

In fact, before I became a boxing fan if I ever thought of Ali it was along the lines of:

"He's a bum. Joe Louis (not that I really knew who he was either but cue mental picture of 'acceptable' black man) would have knocked him out in one round!"

The exact words I'd heard from my father and the other men of his generation as a kid. I believe Crankberry is of that ilk. Misguided and/or just plain ignorant.

A standard leftwing ploy is to say that, "If you don't agree with me, then you are a "hater." "

That is a tired, worn out, easily recognizable tool of the leftwing propagandist.

Ali was a mediocre boxer. Jimmy Young made an ass of him.
Doug Jones was clearly superior to Ali.

Ali couldn't punch. He proved that repeatedly.

I have seen much better fighters than Ali.

Many of them.

As one rabid member of the Religion of Ali wrote above, "Ali transcended boxing."

WHY?

Because he is the darling of the leftwing?

Is he a religious figure?

The exhibition members of the Religion of Ali make of themselves is pathetic.

Their religion is built on quicksand.

The gasbag media sell of Ali certainly transcends any other propaganda campaigm mounted by the stooge media.

And for what purpose exactly?

I am not an Ali propagandist, nor am I a Ali 'lover'.

Hell he is my GF most hated fighter.

I certainly am not left wing ! I manage a small business to start with so am far from being on the unionist agenda.

I do however appreciate the skill and talent that Ali does have.

Graberry,
would you be able to list your top ten HW greats. Out of curiosity. I would like to know the guys you rate and like.

Thanks again.

Kym

I think few people here who granberry claims follow an "Ali religion" actually believe that Ali is the greatest fighter of all time. I rank Robinson as the greatest fighter of all time, and rank Armstrong and Pep ahead of Ali. As I pointed out in the other thread, granberry doesn't like Ali because of Ali's politics, and you can see that again in this thread. And that's another point, not all of Ali's fans are liberals. I would consider myself a moderate, and I don't know if I agree with Ali's position on Vietnam. I actually disagree with some of Ali's rhetoric about Vietnam.

As for Doug Jones, Ali beat him legitimately, and Ali in his prime would have beaten Young about the same way he beat Jimmy Ellis or somebody. Young was by far not the best boxer Ali had ever met to that point. Ali's 230 pounds did him in.

granberry....I'm not sure if your a hater....don't really care actually though you seem to quack like a duck. I just think your wrong about a particular skills assessment. And of course your only defense is that I am too lame to know. I've not attacked you.

I have disagreed with your assessments....granted sometimes with an edge or bit of sarcasm but you have decided you know my gender preference, my IQ and my diet from simply not being your rubber stamp.

Since you didnt' challenge my facts in the Liston thread you are simply served notice that your scam is trasnparent....and I"ll say once again that your knowledge is respected.

I never really wanted to debate you....I just didn't want you getting away with your shallow tactics unchallenged.

I Feel Fine wrote: Young was by far not the best boxer Ali had ever met to that point. Ali's 230 pounds did him in.

The incompetence of ifeelfine shows through.

Jimmy Young was the best fighter technically of his time.

Every fighter praised him.

Ron Lyle said after losing his first fight to Young that Young was by far the most talented fighter in the division.

Foreman said after losing to Young, "I never should have boxed him."

The clueless here will never know what the word "box' means in that context.

Young made a total ass out of Ali because Young had boxing skills light years beyond Ali's few tricks.

I didn't say Young wasn't a good boxer dingleberry, I said he was not the best boxer Ali had met to that point. And he wasn't. He fought a good fight, but his effectiveness was more due to Ali's state. How would Young at 34 and 230 pounds do against a prime Ali? Not good.

I Feel Fine wrote:I didn't say Young wasn't a good boxer dingleberry, I said he was not the best boxer Ali had met to that point. And he wasn't. He fought a good fight, but his effectiveness was more due to Ali's state. How would Young at 34 and 230 pounds do against a prime Ali? Not good.

ifeelfine presumes he is qualified to discuss "boxing."

He also claims he saw the boxing lesson to end all boxing lessons Jimmy Young gave Ali.

ifeelfine,

Tell us all what Jimmy Young did EVERY TIME Ali threw his girlish, amateurish left slap (no one could call it a left hook).

Why did Ali miss 150 or more of this "punch" ?

Many of them by a foot or more.

Why didn't Ali ever adjust?

Why did he keep missing and missing and missing the same laft hand for the entire fight?

What Young did each time is perfectly visible to anyone who is competent when it comes to "boxing."

TELL US what Young did, ifeelfine.

You brought up the subject of "boxing."

You posed as one competent to discuss the subject.

ANSWER MY QUESTION, ifeelfine.

Then I have many more about the "BOXING" in this same fight.

I have the Young fight on Cellulose...but here is Jimmy getting caught by Big George...in a losing effort to Jimmy......Young was good. He couldnt put George away but he definately outpointed him in a close one. Some say George should have gotten the decision.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=9P4cOZE3yS0

Dingleberry is trying to present Ali-Young as Ali somehow being exposed by a better technical boxer, when the fact is Ali had met better technical boxers and had never had the kinds of problems he had in landing on Young. It wasn't just Young's skill, it was the fat sluggish Ali missing shots because he was out of shape and his timing was off. Young was able to slip and duck under Ali's hooks, but if Ali was in better shape and a bit younger his shots would have been much quicker and more accurate, rather than the sloppy punches he threw in that fight.

Anyone who watches Ali-Young and thinks they're seeing Ali getting exposed is either an idiot or hasn't seen Ali at his best. Compare the Ali that fought Young to the Ali who fought Patterson or Ellis or Quarry. Better timing, better speed, accurate pinpoint punching. He's simply not the same fighter when he fights Young, which was a fight where Ali was shot and out of shape. Its like watching Holmes-Spinks or Holyfield-Toney and saying that those two sucked and lost because of their opponents "superior skill," rather than because they were old and, in Holmes', case fat.

I'm sure Young at 230 pounds at 34 years of age, coming off a Joe Frazier trilogy, would have done just fine with a prime Ali, eh granberry? After all, he knew how to avoid Ali's "girlish" hooks.

BoxBuzz wrote:I have the Young fight on Cellulose...but here is Jimmy getting caught by Big George...in a losing effort to Jimmy......Young was good. He couldnt put George away but he definately outpointed him in a close one. Some say George should have gotten the decision.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=9P4cOZE3yS0

I remember watching the fight. I thought Young won. I don't remember any disagreement coming from Foreman. I think Jimmy Young was one of the most mishandled fighters I've seen.

About 3 months ago I posted that I saw Young take a dive against a local heavyweight named Clay Hodges.(A lot of posters disagreed with me,but I know what I saw and heard) Hodges was popular,undefeated(2 and 0),but the problem was he was a big stiiff. Anyway they bring out a guy named Jimmy Young to fight him in a 4 rounder. I'm sitting ringside with my friend and I want Young to win(I never saw him fight before)because I know all the hype means nothing. The bell rings for round 1 and Hodges is on his back before the corner men clear the ring. I turn to my friend and say"I told you" 2 old guys in suits turn around and ask me "I got 20 bucks saying Hodges wins"

I take them up on it and Hodges doesn't throw another punch for the rest of the fight. Decision Hodges. I'm getting out my money and one of the old guys says "Hold on to your dough son,we knew Hodges was going to win. By the way kid,you could have kicked his ass. Hodges ia a big dummy) Later Hodges goes up to LA and gets KO'd and his jaw broken by Kenyatta Huckenhall,a big muscle bound slow fighter. Hodges never fights again.

Forgive me for repeating myself,but what other kind of compromises did Young make in his career? With the right connections,maybe Young could have basked in glory like Ali. He's dead now. Those of us that appreciate boxing recognized his talent and his difficulties.

dagosd2000 wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:I have the Young fight on Cellulose...but here is Jimmy getting caught by Big George...in a losing effort to Jimmy......Young was good. He couldnt put George away but he definately outpointed him in a close one. Some say George should have gotten the decision.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=9P4cOZE3yS0

I remember watching the fight. I thought Young won. I don't remember any disagreement coming from Foreman. I think Jimmy Young was one of the most mishandled fighters I've seen.

About 3 months ago I posted that I saw Young take a dive against a local heavyweight named Clay Hodges.(A lot of posters disagreed with me,but I know what I saw and heard) Hodges was popular,undefeated(2 and 0),but the problem was he was a big stiiff. Anyway they bring out a guy named Jimmy Young to fight him in a 4 rounder. I'm sitting ringside with my friend and I want Young to win(I never saw him fight before)because I know all the hype means nothing. The bell rings for round 1 and Hodges is on his back before the corner men clear the ring. I turn to my friend and say"I told you" 2 old guys in suits turn around and ask me "I got 20 bucks saying Hodges wins"

I take them up on it and Hodges doesn't throw another punch for the rest of the fight. Decision Hodges. I'm getting out my money and one of the old guys says "Hold on to your dough son,we knew Hodges was going to win. By the way kid,you could have kicked his ass. Hodges ia a big dummy) Later Hodges goes up to LA and gets KO'd and his jaw broken by Kenyatta Huckenhall,a big muscle bound slow fighter. Hodges never fights again.

Forgive me for repeating myself,but what other kind of compromises did Young make in his career? With the right connections,maybe Young could have basked in glory like Ali. He's dead now. Those of us that appreciate boxing recognized his talent and his difficulties.

dago, no one is saying Jimmy Young wasn't an excellent boxer.

He seemed like a fine man, too.