BoxRec

Jab , Larry Holmes

Right hand , (Tie) Joe louis,Earnie Shavers

Left Hook , Joe Frazier

Stamina , Rocky Marciano

Chin , (Tie)Marciano,Muhammad Ali

Body Punching , Sam Langford(I consider Sam a heavyweight also)

Combinations , Muhammad Ali

Defense , Jack Johnson

Best All Around , Muhammad Ali

Ok time to answer back. Keep your punches above the belt

I'll throw a little more detail in later but Joe Louis should clearly be the benchmark choice for combination punching. Clearly.

Jab Larry Holmes/joe louis/lennox lewis

Right hand (Tie) Joe louis,george foreman,tyson

Left Hook Joe Frazier,tyson,dempsey

Stamina Rocky Marciano,ali,henry armstrong

Chin (Tie)Marciano,Muhammad Ali,foreman,tua

Body Punching joe frazier,tyson

Combinations Muhammad Ali,joe louis,tyson

Defense Jack Johnson,tyson

Best All Around -Muhammad Ali,joe louis

Oh boy...here we go again!

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I'll throw a little more detail in later but Joe Louis should clearly be the benchmark choice for combination punching. Clearly.

Hey Irene,As I was driving around thinking of my post,I thought about Louis's combinations. Can't leave him off the list. Thanks

BoxBuzz wrote:Oh boy...here we go again!

Hey Buzz,What's the old saying"If the fire is too hot stay out of the kitchen" I've never had the shit kicked out of me by a computer. Let's have some fun with this. 20,000 kids die each day from starvation and disease. Talking about who's the best Heavyweight Fighter should be interesting and entertaining. Nothing more,nothing less

Best jab - Liston
Best Chin - Chuvalo
Stamina - Chuvalo
Body puncher - Jeffries
Best right hand - Langford
Best left hook - Dempsey
Best Combination puncher - Louis
Best pure boxer - Tunney
Most overrated - Tie between Holmes and Ali
Most underrated - Burns
Best Ring General - Johnson

Cap

Cap wrote:Best jab - Liston
Best Chin - Chuvalo
Stamina - Chuvalo
Body puncher - Jeffries
Best right hand - Langford
Best left hook - Dempsey
Best Combination puncher - Louis
Best pure boxer - Tunney
Most overrated - Tie between Holmes and Ali
Most underrated - Burns
Best Ring General - Johnson

Cap

Hey Cap Best chin,Chuvalo. Good one

Jab - Joe Louis. Liston's was a little heavier, & Holmes' perhaps thrown in greater volume, but Louis' left combines serious power with great timing & speed. The best overall jab.

Chin - George Chuvalo. Twenty years in the business, fighting all comers & some of the biggest-hitting Heavies in history, & his chin never failed him, not once.

Stamina - Jim Jeffries. Keep well in mind that Jeffries didn't just mount up the rounds without respite --- he did it in open arenas, in the middle of the day, & under scorching conditions. In today's climate-controlled environments he may have been able to fight a single bout forever if necessary. Never stopped coming.

Bodypunching - Joe Frazier. To be honest, I don't see anyone, with the possible exception of Jeffries, who matches Frazier in this league. On commitment to the body alone Frazier wins this category. It wasn't his left hook that beat the great fighters, it was the endless assault that turned their ribs into soup.

Right Hand - Joe Louis. Just edges out Foreman on account of superior technique. Louis' right had power approaching Foreman's, but it was short, straight &, like all Louis' punches, deceptively fast. The perfect snap to a punch.

Left Hook - Jack Dempsey. A very close call with Frazier. Just a marginal nod to Dempsey on the basis it was somewhat less predictable as to when he was going to throw it. When Frazier started bobbing up & down in a hurry, the left hook was coming. Dempsey's was at least as powerful, but there wasn't as clear a preceding ritual to it's arrival.

Combination Punching - Joe Louis. Some have even ventured to say the best combo puncher period. Any punch you name, Louis could bring them off the jab & segue one into another just as seamlessly as you could dream. Uppercuts, hooks, straight rights & bolos, putting them all together he was in a class of his own.

Ring General - Muhammad Ali. The blend of proven effective psychology, the adaptability, & that unshakeable self-belief, Ali is the ultimate ring general amongst the Heavies. On his night, there isn't a fight out there amongst the great HW's he couldn't win.

Best All-Round - It's a cop-out, but putting together their strengths & weaknesses, I couldn't split Louis & Ali. Just couldn't.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Jab - Joe Louis. Liston's was a little heavier, & Holmes' perhaps thrown in greater volume, but Louis' left combines serious power with great timing & speed. The best overall jab.

Chin - George Chuvalo. Twenty years in the business, fighting all comers & some of the biggest-hitting Heavies in history, & his chin never failed him, not once.

Stamina - Jim Jeffries. Keep well in mind that Jeffries didn't just mount up the rounds without respite --- he did it in open arenas, in the middle of the day, & under scorching conditions. In today's climate-controlled environments he may have been able to fight a single bout forever if necessary. Never stopped coming.

Bodypunching - Joe Frazier. To be honest, I don't see anyone, with the possible exception of Jeffries, who matches Frazier in this league. On commitment to the body alone Frazier wins this category. It wasn't his left hook that beat the great fighters, it was the endless assault that turned their ribs into soup.

Right Hand - Joe Louis. Just edges out Foreman on account of superior technique. Louis' right had power approaching Foreman's, but it was short, straight &, like all Louis' punches, deceptively fast. The perfect snap to a punch.

Left Hook - Jack Dempsey. A very close call with Frazier. Just a marginal nod to Dempsey on the basis it was somewhat less predictable as to when he was going to throw it. When Frazier started bobbing up & down in a hurry, the left hook was coming. Dempsey's was at least as powerful, but there wasn't as clear a preceding ritual to it's arrival.

Combination Punching - Joe Louis. Some have even ventured to say the best combo puncher period. Any punch you name, Louis could bring them off the jab & segue one into another just as seamlessly as you could dream. Uppercuts, hooks, straight rights & bolos, putting them all together he was in a class of his own.

Ring General - Muhammad Ali. The blend of proven effective psychology, the adaptability, & that unshakeable self-belief, Ali is the ultimate ring general amongst the Heavies. On his night, there isn't a fight out there amongst the great HW's he couldn't win.

Best All-Round - It's a cop-out, but putting together their strengths & weaknesses, I couldn't split Louis & Ali. Just couldn't.

OK for my money you have just redeemed yourself for that "Frazier vs Hopkins" Thread. I dont' agree with all of your calls but based upon a combination of fights I have seen, books I have read and sampling of opinions from the formidably knowledgeble (granberry included) I believe that you have given it thought and have presented the info nicely.

Jab: Joe Louis. Even when he was passed his best, it was that sneaky left jab that got him ranked the #1 contender when Charles and later Walcott became champion. He didn't throw it in quite the volume as say a Muhammad Ali, but it was more of a solid hit and was timed perfectly; nor did he have the powerful jab of a Liston or Foreman that could knock a man's teeth out, but it was usually that left jab that stunned his opponents just enough for him to unleash his lethal combinations.

Stamina: Of more modern day Heavyweights (1950's and beyond) it's easily Rocky Marciano; but of the old time fighters it is James J. Jeffries. Both men trained religously, if not to the point of ridiculousness. You just wasn't going to tire them out. PERIOD.

Chin: This is a hard one. Randall Tex Cobb, Chuck Wepner, Joe Grimm, Rocky Marciano, George Foreman, George Chuvalo, John L. Sullivan and Muhammad Ali, all proved themselves to be all but unstoppable in their careers, rarely being dropped and/or knocked out.

Body Punching: In my opinion it's a tie between Frazier and Marciano. Rocky threw such a high volume of punches, and Frazier was constantly busy in the ring. Their body punches always set up the left hook or the right. It was body punching that set up the left hook in the first Ali-Frazier fight that got Joe the win, and it was body punching for the most part that broke the arms of Roland LaStarza, broke down Walcott and Charles and Moore, for Marciano. Jim Jeffries gets an honorable mention as well.

Right Hand: Earnie Shavers. Who the hell had a more powerful right than Earnie? Nobody. It was the right hand that staggered Muhammad Ali, was the right hand that stopped more than 50 men. As far as the most accurate right hand is concerned, thats easily Joe Louis.

Left Hand: Joe Frazier. PERIOD.

Combinations: The Brown Bomber himself. Just watching him dismantle Max Schmeling, Primo Carnera, Max Baer, Jim Braddock in such a beautifully violent, lightning fast, fluid motion...it was pure poetry.

Ring Generalship: Muhammad Ali. Nobody got around a ring, or was as elusive, as Ali was. The bigger the ring, the greater the advantage was for him.

Defensive: Jack Johnson.

Offensive: Jack Dempsey. Never have I seen a man so ferocious in the ring; lightning fast, but hit like hell, could box, but could slug it out better than any of them.

Best All-Around: Joe Louis. There isn't a doubt in my mind, that over all, Joe Louis was damn near perfect, he had all the tools.

NO BEST UPPERCUT ?

MIKE TYSON

Jab: I distinguish between having a "good jab" and being a "good jabber." For example, Jermain Taylor has a better jab, but Winky Wright is a better jabber; meaning he uses the jab more effectively, even if Taylor's jab is quicker, longer and probably has more pop. Anyway, I would say Holmes had the all around best jab, but I'm not sure who I would call the best jabber.

Right hand: Shavers for raw power, Louis the best over all

Left Hook: Frazier or Tyson

Bester Uppercut: Foreman or Tyson

Stamina: Meh, Marciano I guess

Chin: Cobb or Chuvalo, among Heavyweight champions I would say Ali

Body Punching: Eh, probably Frazier

Combinations: Louis

Defense: Johnson

Ring Generalship: Ali

Power: Among Heavyweight Champions I would say Foreman

Speed: Ali

Best All Around: Ali

dagosd2000 wrote:Jab , Larry Holmes

Right hand , (Tie) Joe louis,Earnie Shavers

Left Hook , Joe Frazier

Stamina , Rocky Marciano

Chin , (Tie)Marciano,Muhammad Ali

Body Punching , Sam Langford(I consider Sam a heavyweight also)

Combinations , Muhammad Ali

Defense , Jack Johnson

Best All Around , Muhammad Ali

Ok time to answer back. Keep your punches above the belt

Jab = Sonny Liston

Right hand = Lennox Lewis

Left hook = Joe Frazier & David Tua

Stamina = Rocky Marciano

Chin = Oliver McCall

Body punching = Joe Frazier

Combinations = Joe Louis

Defense = Jack Johnson

Power = Earnie Shavers

Uppercut = Mike Tyson

All rounder = Evander Holyfied

Seamus wrote:NO BEST UPPERCUT ?

MIKE TYSON

was thinking same thing

Jab = Larry Holmes

Right hand = George Foreman

Left hook = Joe Frazier

Stamina = Ali & Frazier

Chin = George Chuvalo

Body punching = Joe Frazier

Combinations = Joe Louis

Defense = Ali (young version)

Offensive- Foreman

Power = Earnie Shavers

Ring Generalship: Ali

Speed: Ali

Uppercut = Mike Tyson

All rounder = Ali

Jab: Sonny Liston.

Stamina: Rocky Marciano.

Chin: Oliver McCall.

Body Punching: Joe Frazier.

Right Hand: Lennox Lewis.

Left Hand: Joe Frazier.

Combinations: Joe Louis.

Hand Speed: Floyd Patterson.

Ring Generalship: Muhammad Ali.

Defensive: Jersey Joe Walcott.

Best All-Around: Joe Louis.

observer1 wrote:

Seamus wrote:NO BEST UPPERCUT ?

MIKE TYSON

was thinking same thing

Ob1 and Seamus,need to put in UPPERCUT. Tyson had a good one,but Douglass nailed him a good one in the last round of their fight. Watching some Sonny Liston,wouldn't want to run into his uppercut

Foreman had a pretty mean uppercut. I remember watching Frazier/Foreman on youtube and I wondered how did Frazier continued on living let alone got back up from an hellacious uppercut from Foreman. Tyson even on a bad day like he had against Douglas, landed a pretty sweet uppercut that knocked Douglas down. I'd rank Riddick Bowe upthere as well, but his fat piece of sh*t training regimen outside the ring would probably put him off the top ten as well.

I know sh*t about boxing pre1940's, but I just can't see how stamina wise how you can't put pretty much all of the old timers in the top twenty. Its hardly imaginable today how those guys went through 20-something rounds!!! I think why some people, especially from my generation, don't take it seriously because a fight that someone won from a knockout in the 26th round just seems cartoonish!!! But it ACTUALLY happened!

Right hand: Louis & Foreman

Left Hook: Frazier

Bester Uppercut: Foreman

Stamina: Jeffries

Chin: Chuvalo

Body Punching: Frazier

Combinations: Louis

Defense: Johnson

Ring Generalship: Ali

Power: Foreman & Liston

Speed: Ali & Tyson

Best All Around: Ali

Jab , Peter Jackson

Right hand - Peter Maher

Left Hook , Frank Slavin

Stamina, Tom Sharky

Chin , Jeffries

Body Punching , Bob Fitzsimmons, Goddard

Combinations , Fitzsimmons

Defense , Corbett,

Best All Around , Tunney

If we say "best all around" does that mean the fighter is a complete fighter?

Jab = HOLMES - Liston's more powerful, Ali's faster, but Holmes has the hybrid.

Right hand = LOUIS - accuracy, timing and power

Left hook = DEMPSEY - Frazier shaded into second place, Tyson deserves a mention as does Walcott

Stamina = JEFFRIES/MARCIANO both won fights because they could absorb more and fight for longer than more skilled adversaries.

Chin = MCCALL/CHUVALO granite chins

Body punching = FRAZIER

Combinations = LOUIS easily the winner but perhaps Tyson deserves a mention here.

Defense = JOHNSON/ALI both could be unhittable.

Uppercut = JOHNSON throw this name in here because he had a great uppercut

observer1 wrote:

Seamus wrote:NO BEST UPPERCUT ?

MIKE TYSON

was thinking same thing

me 2

elmersalsa wrote:If we say "best all around" does that mean the fighter is a complete fighter?

I would say so, that's why I nominated Evander Holyfield.

Excellent stamina & workrate; can punch a bit, can box very well & he had a great chin in his prime. He could also slug it out & bend the rules if necessary. :P