BoxRec

I read with great indignation the thread about PBF-Duran. How anybody in their right mind could put Duran above floyd is beyond me. In case anybody has any questions about where I stand regarding PBF/Money, here's how I think he'd fare against some of the top Lighwts and welters of all time.

Duran-Mayweather. Look, duran lost to a guy named Esteban Dejesus when Duran was this supposedly invincible lightwt champ. Dejesus was no great...he was a good fighter with lateral movement and a decent punch and that's all he needed to drop Duran in the first round and outclass him for 12. In the rematch, Dejesus again dropped Duran in the first round and outboxed him until Duran's pressure got to him (Dejesus also had a serious drug problem even back then). Leonard outboxed duran with ease in fights 2 and 3. I don't think Floyd would try and get into a slugging match with Duran anymore than Cotto will stand and trade with Margarito. It's not his style. Bottomline is, when it's a matchup of styles, at lightwt, Duran would be vulnerable to Floyd's speed, movement and counterpunching. Even Leonard wasn't as versatile as Floyd. In a 12 round fight with both fighters at their best, Floyd wins by late KO over the wild, aggressive Duran.

Mayweather-Armstrong. Hammerin' Hank was a great fighter, no doubt. He was perpetual motion and a phenomenon for his era winning titles from feather to welter. He had 18 welterwt defenses. Still, PBF beats hank. It wouldn't be easy, but he'd give hank movement and slip through his own right crosses and left hooks that would keep Hank off-balance. It would be a great fight. But Floyd simply has more snap in his punches. Floyd can drop a guy with one punch. Hank rarely ever did that, relying on constant pressure and the accumulation of punches. Besides, Floyd being faster on his feet would keep Hank on the end of his punches and avoid the infighting that was Armstrongs forte.

Sugar Ray Leonard-Mayweather. The key here is that Leonard was a natural welter while Floyd is still a small welter. Leonard's strength would carry him to win over Floyd, but then again...Leonard had real probs with Benitez, a guy not half as talented as PBF. Leonard didn't fight a lot of fast, technical guys. It would be a thinking man's fight, but speed would carry the day. I see Leonard winning by the narrowest of margins in a fast-paced, exciting fight.

Mayweather-Benny Leonard- OK, so PBF/money would probably take this Leonard out in the first 30 seconds of the fight. It would be a complete mismatch. A guy from the 20's and 30's against a modern fighter. Before Leonard even knew what hit him he'd be out cold.

Robinson- Mayweather. I have PBF winning this at welter. Robinson was a great fighter and far ahead of his time, but he had problems with guys like Kid Gavilan and Johnny Bratton. Kid Gavilan was a great fighter, but not in Floyd's class. Robinson at welter was very fast and very strong, so the early rounds would be difficult for floyd...but down the stretch floyd gets stronger and more comfortable and can improvise. He'd match Robinson's speed and quickness but he'd be better in the inside which was not Robinson's strong point. Also, floyd's use of the ring and superior footwork would keep him always a step ahead over 12 rounds.

Dentsun4228 wrote:I read with great indignation the thread about PBF-Duran. How anybody in their right mind could put Duran above floyd is beyond me. In case anybody has any questions about where I stand regarding PBF/Money, here's how I think he'd fare against some of the top Lighwts and welters of all time.

Duran-Mayweather. Look, duran lost to a guy named Esteban Dejesus when Duran was this supposedly invincible lightwt champ. Dejesus was no great...he was a good fighter with lateral movement and a decent punch and that's all he needed to drop Duran in the first round and outclass him for 12. In the rematch, Dejesus again dropped Duran in the first round and outboxed him until Duran's pressure got to him (Dejesus also had a serious drug problem even back then). Leonard outboxed duran with ease in fights 2 and 3. I don't think Floyd would try and get into a slugging match with Duran anymore than Cotto will stand and trade with Margarito. It's not his style. Bottomline is, when it's a matchup of styles, at lightwt, Duran would be vulnerable to Floyd's speed, movement and counterpunching. Even Leonard wasn't as versatile as Floyd. In a 12 round fight with both fighters at their best, Floyd wins by late KO over the wild, aggressive Duran.

Mayweather-Armstrong. Hammerin' Hank was a great fighter, no doubt. He was perpetual motion and a phenomenon for his era winning titles from feather to welter. He had 18 welterwt defenses. Still, PBF beats hank. It wouldn't be easy, but he'd give hank movement and slip through his own right crosses and left hooks that would keep Hank off-balance. It would be a great fight. But Floyd simply has more snap in his punches. Floyd can drop a guy with one punch. Hank rarely ever did that, relying on constant pressure and the accumulation of punches. Besides, Floyd being faster on his feet would keep Hank on the end of his punches and avoid the infighting that was Armstrongs forte.

Sugar Ray Leonard-Mayweather. The key here is that Leonard was a natural welter while Floyd is still a small welter. Leonard's strength would carry him to win over Floyd, but then again...Leonard had real probs with Benitez, a guy not half as talented as PBF. Leonard didn't fight a lot of fast, technical guys. It would be a thinking man's fight, but speed would carry the day. I see Leonard winning by the narrowest of margins in a fast-paced, exciting fight.

Mayweather-Benny Leonard- OK, so PBF/money would probably take this Leonard out in the first 30 seconds of the fight. It would be a complete mismatch. A guy from the 20's and 30's against a modern fighter. Before Leonard even knew what hit him he'd be out cold.

Robinson- Mayweather. I have PBF winning this at welter. Robinson was a great fighter and far ahead of his time, but he had problems with guys like Kid Gavilan and Johnny Bratton. Kid Gavilan was a great fighter, but not in Floyd's class. Robinson at welter was very fast and very strong, so the early rounds would be difficult for floyd...but down the stretch floyd gets stronger and more comfortable and can improvise. He'd match Robinson's speed and quickness but he'd be better in the inside which was not Robinson's strong point. Also, floyd's use of the ring and superior footwork would keep him always a step ahead over 12 rounds.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here.

The Dejesus points win, which I have, was a robbery against Duran, which he avenged years later. Duran has fought better speed (Leonard) and won.

Most journalists who were able to see Duran in his prime have said he's the best lightweight there has ever been. I don't think they're worlds apart, but Duran was also noted for his speed, head movement and angles, not just his power.

Also, Leonard and Hagler both gone on record to say that Duran was the best defensive fighter they have ever seen/fought.

To compare Mayweather to Robinson is even worse. Robinson was the greatest fighter there has ever been. Fact. Ask any boxer. After all, they now best.

Wow. Just wow. I thought okay this is a Taylor fan who is in somewhat denial about the first fight and you know what its not impossible for JT to take the second fight even though this guy is making it sound more one-sided then it would really be. Now I know after hearing your explanations your just batshit insane. You obviously don't take an interest in the sports older generations and look at just the records and hype. It shows because of the Leonard statement. Leonard was KO'ed 4 times in 18 losses when they used much smaller gloves in his time period. Mayweather fights in LV where they force welters to wear 10 oz. I beleive (which is why he won't fight anywhere else). He drew with Ted (kid) Lewis. He almost (had he not been hasty) ko'ed Jack Britton. By the way I'm only stating names I think you'll know. The fact that Duran beat BARKLEY for the WBC middle. championship after destroying everyone even with controversial losses says a lot about him since he was past his prime. How about the fact that Robinson he beat Lamotta, Armstrong, Gavilan, Bobo Olsen, Graziano, and Turpin in a rematch. He even after his prime got Fulmer (with the perfect left hook that would have smashed Hatton and made it so he wouldn't get up for a second one), and was stated by Ali as having been the greatest since Ali clarified that he was only the greatest heavyweight and the greatest p4p was Robinson. Floyd wouldn't match any kind of speed or skill in the ring with Robinson and as for getting comfortable I doubt Floyd has anything that Robinson hadn't already seen. As for Armstrong he beat Barney Ross, beat Feldman for the lightweight and welter title at the same time, and is the very reason Floyd couldn't hold the light middle and welter title (he was so good at those three weight classes it was banned.) Have you ever seen fights of these fighters or even clips. I'm of this generation and I respect and look up to the old fighters.
You have Leonard beating Floyd but he got more controversial decisions in his favor then any of the other fighters above and where Floyd runs 5 miles a day when a fight comes up Leonard ran 10. 15 rounders made these guys have endless stamina. Leonard not as versatile as Floyd. Did you ever see the first Hearns fight and the second Duran fight. Tell me thats not versatile. Or maybe the controversial Hagler fight. He was the most hyped fighter of all that you mentioned and you give him the most praise. Now Mayweather is. I don't usually talk bad about others on this forum but please watch their fights and learn a few things about boxing.

None of the PBF fights above are fantasy fights for Floyd. They are nightmare fights, as he would get his ass beat by everyone of the fighters listed. To say he would stop Duran is pure fantasy alright!!

Robinson at 147 beats any welter ever.

Dumbsun is plainly retarded and has an obvious bias. All it takes is one post to flush ones credibility down the toilet and he did it with his first post in this thread. Nice going Einstein!

Robinson was 120-1 at welter.

generic screen name wrote:Robinson was 120-1 at welter.

And that loss was to Jake LaMotta when LaMotta was 160 lbs to SRRs 147.

sockdolagerAnd that loss was to Jake LaMotta when LaMotta was 160 lbs to SRRs 147.[/quote] ..and beat him 5 times afterwards, just to make sure! :TU: wrote:

generic screen name wrote:Robinson was 120-1 at welter.

His amateur/professional record was 205-1 at that point. I can't think of any professional fighter with a better amateur record. Maybe someone else can?

Robinson whoops any of today's welters...he had a natural toughness that fighters no longer have, and he had much more power than most ppl have in mind, Floyd doesnt carry that power.

Dentsun4228 wrote:I read with great indignation the thread about PBF-Duran. How anybody in their right mind could put Duran above floyd is beyond me. In case anybody has any questions about where I stand regarding PBF/Money, here's how I think he'd fare against some of the top Lighwts and welters of all time.

Duran-Mayweather. Look, duran lost to a guy named Esteban Dejesus when Duran was this supposedly invincible lightwt champ. Dejesus was no great...he was a good fighter with lateral movement and a decent punch and that's all he needed to drop Duran in the first round and outclass him for 12. In the rematch, Dejesus again dropped Duran in the first round and outboxed him until Duran's pressure got to him (Dejesus also had a serious drug problem even back then). Leonard outboxed duran with ease in fights 2 and 3. I don't think Floyd would try and get into a slugging match with Duran anymore than Cotto will stand and trade with Margarito. It's not his style. Bottomline is, when it's a matchup of styles, at lightwt, Duran would be vulnerable to Floyd's speed, movement and counterpunching. Even Leonard wasn't as versatile as Floyd. In a 12 round fight with both fighters at their best, Floyd wins by late KO over the wild, aggressive Duran.

Mayweather-Armstrong. Hammerin' Hank was a great fighter, no doubt. He was perpetual motion and a phenomenon for his era winning titles from feather to welter. He had 18 welterwt defenses. Still, PBF beats hank. It wouldn't be easy, but he'd give hank movement and slip through his own right crosses and left hooks that would keep Hank off-balance. It would be a great fight. But Floyd simply has more snap in his punches. Floyd can drop a guy with one punch. Hank rarely ever did that, relying on constant pressure and the accumulation of punches. Besides, Floyd being faster on his feet would keep Hank on the end of his punches and avoid the infighting that was Armstrongs forte.

Sugar Ray Leonard-Mayweather. The key here is that Leonard was a natural welter while Floyd is still a small welter. Leonard's strength would carry him to win over Floyd, but then again...Leonard had real probs with Benitez, a guy not half as talented as PBF. Leonard didn't fight a lot of fast, technical guys. It would be a thinking man's fight, but speed would carry the day. I see Leonard winning by the narrowest of margins in a fast-paced, exciting fight.

Mayweather-Benny Leonard- OK, so PBF/money would probably take this Leonard out in the first 30 seconds of the fight. It would be a complete mismatch. A guy from the 20's and 30's against a modern fighter. Before Leonard even knew what hit him he'd be out cold.

Robinson- Mayweather. I have PBF winning this at welter. Robinson was a great fighter and far ahead of his time, but he had problems with guys like Kid Gavilan and Johnny Bratton. Kid Gavilan was a great fighter, but not in Floyd's class. Robinson at welter was very fast and very strong, so the early rounds would be difficult for floyd...but down the stretch floyd gets stronger and more comfortable and can improvise. He'd match Robinson's speed and quickness but he'd be better in the inside which was not Robinson's strong point. Also, floyd's use of the ring and superior footwork would keep him always a step ahead over 12 rounds.

You're an idiot...

Duran, Leonard, Armstrong and Robinson all kick Floyd's ass... And Benny Leonard doesn't lose that quickly. When you're done trying to give Floyd a blowjob then come back and post you stupid bitch.

Dentsun4228 wrote:I read with great indignation the thread about PBF-Duran. How anybody in their right mind could put Duran above floyd is beyond me. In case anybody has any questions about where I stand regarding PBF/Money, here's how I think he'd fare against some of the top Lighwts and welters of all time.

Duran-Mayweather. Look, duran lost to a guy named Esteban Dejesus when Duran was this supposedly invincible lightwt champ. Dejesus was no great...he was a good fighter with lateral movement and a decent punch and that's all he needed to drop Duran in the first round and outclass him for 12. In the rematch, Dejesus again dropped Duran in the first round and outboxed him until Duran's pressure got to him (Dejesus also had a serious drug problem even back then). Leonard outboxed duran with ease in fights 2 and 3. I don't think Floyd would try and get into a slugging match with Duran anymore than Cotto will stand and trade with Margarito. It's not his style. Bottomline is, when it's a matchup of styles, at lightwt, Duran would be vulnerable to Floyd's speed, movement and counterpunching. Even Leonard wasn't as versatile as Floyd. In a 12 round fight with both fighters at their best, Floyd wins by late KO over the wild, aggressive Duran.

Mayweather-Armstrong. Hammerin' Hank was a great fighter, no doubt. He was perpetual motion and a phenomenon for his era winning titles from feather to welter. He had 18 welterwt defenses. Still, PBF beats hank. It wouldn't be easy, but he'd give hank movement and slip through his own right crosses and left hooks that would keep Hank off-balance. It would be a great fight. But Floyd simply has more snap in his punches. Floyd can drop a guy with one punch. Hank rarely ever did that, relying on constant pressure and the accumulation of punches. Besides, Floyd being faster on his feet would keep Hank on the end of his punches and avoid the infighting that was Armstrongs forte.

Sugar Ray Leonard-Mayweather. The key here is that Leonard was a natural welter while Floyd is still a small welter. Leonard's strength would carry him to win over Floyd, but then again...Leonard had real probs with Benitez, a guy not half as talented as PBF. Leonard didn't fight a lot of fast, technical guys. It would be a thinking man's fight, but speed would carry the day. I see Leonard winning by the narrowest of margins in a fast-paced, exciting fight.

Mayweather-Benny Leonard- OK, so PBF/money would probably take this Leonard out in the first 30 seconds of the fight. It would be a complete mismatch. A guy from the 20's and 30's against a modern fighter. Before Leonard even knew what hit him he'd be out cold.

Robinson- Mayweather. I have PBF winning this at welter. Robinson was a great fighter and far ahead of his time, but he had problems with guys like Kid Gavilan and Johnny Bratton. Kid Gavilan was a great fighter, but not in Floyd's class. Robinson at welter was very fast and very strong, so the early rounds would be difficult for floyd...but down the stretch floyd gets stronger and more comfortable and can improvise. He'd match Robinson's speed and quickness but he'd be better in the inside which was not Robinson's strong point. Also, floyd's use of the ring and superior footwork would keep him always a step ahead over 12 rounds.

I would pick any of the legends above to beat Mayweather. Who has Mayweather ever beaten that is remotely close to Robinson, B Leonard, R Leonard, Duran and Armstrong? These guys are all top 10 p4p fighters of all time. Mayweather is a modern great, his best wins are against Hatton, De La Hoya and Castillo, hardly in the same league as Robinson, Armstong, Duran or either of the Leonards. Get a grip Dentsun

sockdolager wrote:Robinson at 147 beats any welter ever.

Was just about to write that.

I'm going against the grain and saying I think Floyd beats Ray Leonard.

all fighters listed beat floyd handily. As someone said earlier, Robinson is the greatest welter ever, and Duran is the greatest Lightweight ever.Floyd wouldn't last eight with either fighter.

Tantum wrote:I'm going against the grain and saying I think Floyd beats Ray Leonard.

Hahahaha....Floyd isn't half the defensive fighter of Wilfredo Benitez. He would never ,ever, ever, ever,ever.........beat SRL, let alone last like Benitez did. Floyd would get beat like his old man did. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

ringsider wrote:Hahahaha....Floyd isn't half the defensive fighter of Wilfredo Benitez.

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:

Dentsun4228 wrote:I read with great indignation the thread about PBF-Duran. How anybody in their right mind could put Duran above floyd is beyond me. In case anybody has any questions about where I stand regarding PBF/Money, here's how I think he'd fare against some of the top Lighwts and welters of all time.

Duran-Mayweather. Look, duran lost to a guy named Esteban Dejesus when Duran was this supposedly invincible lightwt champ. Dejesus was no great...he was a good fighter with lateral movement and a decent punch and that's all he needed to drop Duran in the first round and outclass him for 12. In the rematch, Dejesus again dropped Duran in the first round and outboxed him until Duran's pressure got to him (Dejesus also had a serious drug problem even back then). Leonard outboxed duran with ease in fights 2 and 3. I don't think Floyd would try and get into a slugging match with Duran anymore than Cotto will stand and trade with Margarito. It's not his style. Bottomline is, when it's a matchup of styles, at lightwt, Duran would be vulnerable to Floyd's speed, movement and counterpunching. Even Leonard wasn't as versatile as Floyd. In a 12 round fight with both fighters at their best, Floyd wins by late KO over the wild, aggressive Duran.

Mayweather-Armstrong. Hammerin' Hank was a great fighter, no doubt. He was perpetual motion and a phenomenon for his era winning titles from feather to welter. He had 18 welterwt defenses. Still, PBF beats hank. It wouldn't be easy, but he'd give hank movement and slip through his own right crosses and left hooks that would keep Hank off-balance. It would be a great fight. But Floyd simply has more snap in his punches. Floyd can drop a guy with one punch. Hank rarely ever did that, relying on constant pressure and the accumulation of punches. Besides, Floyd being faster on his feet would keep Hank on the end of his punches and avoid the infighting that was Armstrongs forte.

Sugar Ray Leonard-Mayweather. The key here is that Leonard was a natural welter while Floyd is still a small welter. Leonard's strength would carry him to win over Floyd, but then again...Leonard had real probs with Benitez, a guy not half as talented as PBF. Leonard didn't fight a lot of fast, technical guys. It would be a thinking man's fight, but speed would carry the day. I see Leonard winning by the narrowest of margins in a fast-paced, exciting fight.

Mayweather-Benny Leonard- OK, so PBF/money would probably take this Leonard out in the first 30 seconds of the fight. It would be a complete mismatch. A guy from the 20's and 30's against a modern fighter. Before Leonard even knew what hit him he'd be out cold.

Robinson- Mayweather. I have PBF winning this at welter. Robinson was a great fighter and far ahead of his time, but he had problems with guys like Kid Gavilan and Johnny Bratton. Kid Gavilan was a great fighter, but not in Floyd's class. Robinson at welter was very fast and very strong, so the early rounds would be difficult for floyd...but down the stretch floyd gets stronger and more comfortable and can improvise. He'd match Robinson's speed and quickness but he'd be better in the inside which was not Robinson's strong point. Also, floyd's use of the ring and superior footwork would keep him always a step ahead over 12 rounds.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here.

The Dejesus points win, which I have, was a robbery against Duran, which he avenged years later. Duran has fought better speed (Leonard) and won.

Most journalists who were able to see Duran in his prime have said he's the best lightweight there has ever been. I don't think they're worlds apart, but Duran was also noted for his speed, head movement and angles, not just his power.

Also, Leonard and Hagler both gone on record to say that Duran was the best defensive fighter they have ever seen/fought.

To compare Mayweather to Robinson is even worse. Robinson was the greatest fighter there has ever been. Fact. Ask any boxer. After all, they now best.

Where do people like you come from?...lol. A robbery? Obviously you didn't see the fight. Duran was beaten very convincingly...lost practically every round. Just check out a tape if you can find one somewhere. Dejesus dominated him in that fight. It demonstrated that you don't have to be a virtuoso boxer like Floyd to give Duran fits. Look how long Ray Lampkin lasted... and Lampkin was no more than a clubfighter. Duran was indeed a great fighter, but he didn't dominate every minute of every round against every guy he faced...and in many cases, some of them got the better of him even at lightwt where he was his best. If you stop listening to what people say and actually watch a few of his fights you'll see that he had very notable flaws that PBF would have easly exploited.

As for Robinson, while I respect his great legacy, I have to call 'em as I see 'em. Robinson was indeed the greatest pfp boxer anybody had seen up until 1947. Since then boxing has changed and developed a little. The fact that about 15 years ago I might have agreed that robinson was the best ever says a lot. Guys like PBF and RJJ surpass robinson in a number of areas. Like I said, just watch the fights. I know sometimes watching the fights tend to bust a person's bubble, because reality can be a lot less comfortable than fantasy and seeing that these oldtimers had a lot of flaws and sometimes were terrible fighters is not what many fans want to believe. Fact is floyd is phenomenal talent. Far greater than duran and yes, I'd have to argue, better even than robinson.

Dentsun4228 wrote:I read with great indignation the thread about PBF-Duran. How anybody in their right mind could put Duran above floyd is beyond me. In case anybody has any questions about where I stand regarding PBF/Money, here's how I think he'd fare against some of the top Lighwts and welters of all time.

Duran-Mayweather. Look, duran lost to a guy named Esteban Dejesus when Duran was this supposedly invincible lightwt champ. Dejesus was no great...he was a good fighter with lateral movement and a decent punch and that's all he needed to drop Duran in the first round and outclass him for 12. In the rematch, Dejesus again dropped Duran in the first round and outboxed him until Duran's pressure got to him (Dejesus also had a serious drug problem even back then). Leonard outboxed duran with ease in fights 2 and 3. I don't think Floyd would try and get into a slugging match with Duran anymore than Cotto will stand and trade with Margarito. It's not his style. Bottomline is, when it's a matchup of styles, at lightwt, Duran would be vulnerable to Floyd's speed, movement and counterpunching. Even Leonard wasn't as versatile as Floyd. In a 12 round fight with both fighters at their best, Floyd wins by late KO over the wild, aggressive Duran.

Mayweather-Armstrong. Hammerin' Hank was a great fighter, no doubt. He was perpetual motion and a phenomenon for his era winning titles from feather to welter. He had 18 welterwt defenses. Still, PBF beats hank. It wouldn't be easy, but he'd give hank movement and slip through his own right crosses and left hooks that would keep Hank off-balance. It would be a great fight. But Floyd simply has more snap in his punches. Floyd can drop a guy with one punch. Hank rarely ever did that, relying on constant pressure and the accumulation of punches. Besides, Floyd being faster on his feet would keep Hank on the end of his punches and avoid the infighting that was Armstrongs forte.

Sugar Ray Leonard-Mayweather. The key here is that Leonard was a natural welter while Floyd is still a small welter. Leonard's strength would carry him to win over Floyd, but then again...Leonard had real probs with Benitez, a guy not half as talented as PBF. Leonard didn't fight a lot of fast, technical guys. It would be a thinking man's fight, but speed would carry the day. I see Leonard winning by the narrowest of margins in a fast-paced, exciting fight.

Mayweather-Benny Leonard- OK, so PBF/money would probably take this Leonard out in the first 30 seconds of the fight. It would be a complete mismatch. A guy from the 20's and 30's against a modern fighter. Before Leonard even knew what hit him he'd be out cold.

Robinson- Mayweather. I have PBF winning this at welter. Robinson was a great fighter and far ahead of his time, but he had problems with guys like Kid Gavilan and Johnny Bratton. Kid Gavilan was a great fighter, but not in Floyd's class. Robinson at welter was very fast and very strong, so the early rounds would be difficult for floyd...but down the stretch floyd gets stronger and more comfortable and can improvise. He'd match Robinson's speed and quickness but he'd be better in the inside which was not Robinson's strong point. Also, floyd's use of the ring and superior footwork would keep him always a step ahead over 12 rounds.

No use of discussing these, because if those fighters were in their primes today Floyd would wait until they get old and rusty and face the lesser contenders in the meantime.

FinitoLopez wrote:Wow. Just wow. I thought okay this is a Taylor fan who is in somewhat denial about the first fight and you know what its not impossible for JT to take the second fight even though this guy is making it sound more one-sided then it would really be. Now I know after hearing your explanations your just batshit insane. You obviously don't take an interest in the sports older generations and look at just the records and hype. It shows because of the Leonard statement. Leonard was KO'ed 4 times in 18 losses when they used much smaller gloves in his time period. Mayweather fights in LV where they force welters to wear 10 oz. I beleive (which is why he won't fight anywhere else). He drew with Ted (kid) Lewis. He almost (had he not been hasty) ko'ed Jack Britton. By the way I'm only stating names I think you'll know. The fact that Duran beat BARKLEY for the WBC middle. championship after destroying everyone even with controversial losses says a lot about him since he was past his prime. How about the fact that Robinson he beat Lamotta, Armstrong, Gavilan, Bobo Olsen, Graziano, and Turpin in a rematch. He even after his prime got Fulmer (with the perfect left hook that would have smashed Hatton and made it so he wouldn't get up for a second one), and was stated by Ali as having been the greatest since Ali clarified that he was only the greatest heavyweight and the greatest p4p was Robinson. Floyd wouldn't match any kind of speed or skill in the ring with Robinson and as for getting comfortable I doubt Floyd has anything that Robinson hadn't already seen. As for Armstrong he beat Barney Ross, beat Feldman for the lightweight and welter title at the same time, and is the very reason Floyd couldn't hold the light middle and welter title (he was so good at those three weight classes it was banned.) Have you ever seen fights of these fighters or even clips. I'm of this generation and I respect and look up to the old fighters.
You have Leonard beating Floyd but he got more controversial decisions in his favor then any of the other fighters above and where Floyd runs 5 miles a day when a fight comes up Leonard ran 10. 15 rounders made these guys have endless stamina. Leonard not as versatile as Floyd. Did you ever see the first Hearns fight and the second Duran fight. Tell me thats not versatile. Or maybe the controversial Hagler fight. He was the most hyped fighter of all that you mentioned and you give him the most praise. Now Mayweather is. I don't usually talk bad about others on this forum but please watch their fights and learn a few things about boxing.

First of all, buddy, I'm not in denial about anything...Taylor got knocked out..what's there to be in denial about? The facts are the facts. I just feel he should beat Pavlik in a rematch, providing he whips himself into shape. As for the rest of your post, let me just say this: Some of the guys on these boards are regulars and have 1000, 2000, 8000 plus posts. I have 142. But don't confuse the fact that I don't post here a lot with being ignorant of boxing. Fact is, I have seen the fighters I'm talking about and in a lot of cases the posters who talk about benny leonard this and harry greb that haven't seen them. Did you ever see a tape or fight of Jack Britton or Ted Kid Lewis? If you haven't, you have no right to talk about them, because you don't know what you're talking about. I'm willing to bet that a lot of the guys calling Duran the greatest lightwt ever have never seen a tape of duran at lightwt or maybe never at all. Here's the thing: I've seen tape of many greats from bob fitzsimmons, harry greb, dempsey, jack johnson, benny leonard, gene tunney, mickey walker, barney ross, jimmy mclarnin and the list goes on and on. I have never seen tape of joe gans or some of the other old-timers like mctigue and britton and ted kid lewis. However, based on what I have seen, I can tell you this without a shadow of a doubt. Oldtimers generally sucked. Modern boxers are far better. Don't get me wrong. There were guys like Gavilan and Robinson and armstrong who stood out as great fighters who could possibly compete with the elite of today, but for the most part, today's fighters are far better conditioned, have far better technique and everything. I once heard Ali give a lecture as to why he was better than Marciano and Louis...he pointed out simple things. Things that the casual fan may never see. But everything he pointed out was true. Those guys were so flawed, they'd have problems with some of the amateurs around today. It's because boxing wasn't as advanced as it is today. Think of it this way: The best of the oldtimers were like really smart guys sitting around teaching themselves to read and write. Todays best fighters are like really smart guys who graduate from oxford or the sorbonne. The difference is that great. My point here is: I don't take the legacies of Duran, Robinson, Armstrong etc lightly. I'm just being honest and in some cases I'm being kind. I'm not dissing the oldtimers, after all I rank Ezzard charles and armstrong among the best of their weight class all-time. But putting floyd against robinson or duran or armstrong would be like fighting an alien for those guys. They'd be lost and bewildered and I know that duran would get KO'd. He was dropped by guys like Dejesus who's not even a puncher. He was easily beaten by Leonard and Benitez two guys with styles somewhat similar to floyds. The first fight where leonard stood and traded with duran and fought roberto's fight and lsot by a close margin proves that duran was no monster. Floyd wouldn't trade with him, but he'd certainly take advantage of all of duran's mistakes and take him out.

What's next, Floyd manhandles Monzon?

I've always thought there is a SLOW evolution in boxing amoung the elite boxers. However today there are far more "diversions" to contend with that keep that process even slower.

To suggest that something new has come along between the era of Duran and Mayweather that would account for Floyd outclassing Roberto is a pretty shallow thought IMHO. If such a fight would take place I would feel very good about betting against Floyd...Prime vs Prime at lightweight. I'm pretty sure I'd be taking your money.

Floyd got the same advantage that Tiger Woods got....he got exposed to the education process of his sport very early at a time when there is not a great deal of talent out there (at least for boxing). So very naturally to my way of thinking he has an inside track. AND he happens to be very talented as well.

Oh....I might agree that Roberto would not beat Floyd...I'll offer no argument on that.... As Floyd would simply not sign to fight him.

Well said, Buzz.

And just as the argument is made about the Duran who showed up against De Jesus the first time, obviously on an off night, I can choose to pick the Floyd Mayweather who showed up against JL Castillo.

The thing is, as you cleverly point out, that PBF would not show up at all against Duran.

BoxBuzz wrote:I've always thought there is a SLOW evolution in boxing amoung the elite boxers. However today there are far more "diversions" to contend with that keep that process even slower.

To suggest that something new has come along between the era of Duran and Mayweather that would account for Floyd outclassing Roberto is a pretty shallow thought IMHO. If such a fight would take place I would feel very good about betting against Floyd...Prime vs Prime at lightweight. I'm pretty sure I'd be taking your money.

Floyd got the same advantage that Tiger Woods got....he got exposed to the education process of his sport very early at a time when there is not a great deal of talent out there (at least for boxing). So very naturally to my way of thinking he has an inside track. AND he happens to be very talented as well.

Oh....I might agree that Roberto would not beat Floyd...I'll offer no argument on that.... As Floyd would simply not sign to fight him.

Sure, because floyd tends to run from every challenge, right? He has a history of ducking all the best fighters in his weight class and not fighting them. He avoids unifying titles and taking on other proven stars. That's what you're saying.

I also hear you saying that boxing among the lower weight classes is at a weak point right now...there's not a whole lot of talent out there among the lightwts and welters. So floyd is lucky not to have the likes of ray lampkin and vilomar fernandez and ken buchanan around like back in the talent-laden good old days.

And you're also saying that duran and robinson were at a disadvantage because they didn't start boxing at as young a age as floyd did, whatever that age was.

You post is the very definition of delusional. Boxing progresses at a rate as fast as any other sport. No more, no less. Sure, I can't prove that Mike Tyson would have killed Jess Willard. There's no way to. But if you've been around long enough and have some knowledge of boxing, it's not hard to figure out. I saw tape of duran fighting some no-name korean guy once. The guy was beating that ass. Landing combos and staggering duran and backing him up. Eventually Duran got him out of there, but it was a war. It got me thinking...in about 30 years are we gonna say thata kermit cintron was a great welter? Because, if that had been kermit cintron in there today struggling with a no-name fighter we'd have said he was far from unbeatable.

And you are so knowledegable about Duran's career that you can't even remember this Korean's name who was allegedly beating him?

And before you run to the database and check Duran's record, lety me save you the time: He never fought any Korean