BoxRec

Anyone got this on VHS or DVD?

I'm trying to get hold of a copy.

BBN wrote:Anyone got this on VHS or DVD?

I'm trying to get hold of a copy.

Keep trying Ebay, there is a deleted VHS of it I am sure.

stujones wrote:

BBN wrote:Anyone got this on VHS or DVD?

I'm trying to get hold of a copy.

Keep trying Ebay, there is a deleted VHS of it I am sure.

Have you tried red dragon? Is this a decent fight worth getting, as I'll add it to my list if it is?

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:

stujones wrote:

BBN wrote:Anyone got this on VHS or DVD?

I'm trying to get hold of a copy.

Keep trying Ebay, there is a deleted VHS of it I am sure.

Have you tried red dragon? Is this a decent fight worth getting, as I'll add it to my list if it is?

It was the fight that retired Cooper - he was sickened by Harry Gibbs decision and many who were there thought the older man was robbed.

Never seen the fight myself but it is famous for those reasons.

Never seen it, but I think the Times had Bugner by a point.

DavidPayne wrote:Never seen it, but I think the Times had Bugner by a point.

Did you never hear of the controversy surrounding the decision though DP?

It may or may not have been a fair shout (I cant comment as I havent seen it) but it was certainly controversial at the time..

Cooper wouldnt speak to Gibbs for years after and even Harry Carpenter decried the decision. The last time I remember him rebuking a ref's scorecard was Wharton v O'Toole and I dont think many thought Wharton won that one!

Sky showed the full 15 rounds of the fight on numerous occasions circa 1993.

Bugner won it in my opinion, it was close but Bugner hurt Cooper a few times and was busier and had more in the tank at the later stages, it was a good fight.

The rumpus 'Enry caused following it was uncalled for and Harry Gibbs and Bugner haven't got a high opinion of him because of it. Cooper and his repuatation as a fair sportsman is undeserved in my opinion, if you ever read his 1971 autobiography - he has an alibi for every fight he lost.

And when he was interviewed by Sky around the time they showed the Cooper vs Bugner fight, Cooper claimed he would have beaten Ali if it weren't for the fact that Ali's skin was tougher due to his 'negro features'

What a berk!

Now this is just hearsay from stories from my older family members - but didn't Gibbs admit that he wanted to give it to the prospect.

If I am wrong, I am sorry - but this is what I have been told down the years.

stujones wrote:Now this is just hearsay from stories from my older family members - but didn't Gibbs admit that he wanted to give it to the prospect.

If I am wrong, I am sorry - but this is what I have been told down the years.

Gibbs wrote about it in detail in his autobiography which is a cracker if you can get hold of it, but as far as I remember he wrote that the desicion he gave in favour for Bugner was a fair one and the grief Cooper gave in the media afterwards made his family's life a misery.

I could be wrong though and my mind is playing tricks. Harry Gibb's autobiography is a cracker and Alan Minter's autbiography which was wrtten after he beaten Vito Antuerfermo for the second time is a load of racist crap! (try and get hold of it if you can though... )

I watched it at the time and, if memory serves correctly, it was definitely close, but I don't think 'Enry was robbed. It was certainly no Lewis-Holyfield 1 scenario. I'd like to see it again though.

TerribleTerry wrote:

DavidPayne wrote:Never seen it, but I think the Times had Bugner by a point.

Did you never hear of the controversy surrounding the decision though DP?

It may or may not have been a fair shout (I cant comment as I havent seen it) but it was certainly controversial at the time..

Cooper wouldnt speak to Gibbs for years after and even Harry Carpenter decried the decision. The last time I remember him rebuking a ref's scorecard was Wharton v O'Toole and I dont think many thought Wharton won that one!

Of course I'm aware of the controversy, the crowd jeered, threw bottles etc I believe. And as I recorded I've never seen the fight, I was just providing balance to the accepted theory that Cooper was robbed.

It aint necessarily so.

I've got the full fight on VHS, get in touch.
Jim

I thought at the time - and still think - that Bugner deserved the decision. It was close, but no robbery, and Harry Gibbs took a lot of unfair stick from Cooper and his associates.

J

I thought it was a very fair decision, Bugner was just too lively for Cooper and won clearly I think. I have the whole fight and it was a great match. Gibbs was an excellent ref and totally honest and the people who questioned this after the cooper vs Bug fight should be ashamed of themselves. I'm sure Cooper himself never doubted Gibbs Honesty, just his judgement...

i saw it at the time too, thought cooper won it but it was close enough not to cry about the decision. on such incidents history is written and reputations are made and lost forever.

Bugner did the nicer cleaner boxing and was more active in much of the fight, while Cooper seemed to be the more aggressive yet was a tad slower and ponderous. Cooper made a good finish which I think swung a lot of people and made it close but Gibbs was an unsentimental man and while many other refs might have been sung a little by Enerys rep and given it to him, Gibbs gave it to Bugner... the ironic thing is that he did Cooper a favour in the long run as he was able to retire on a wave of sympathy having been 'robbed' of his titles...
Its a great fight really as Bug is so young yet obviously talented and Cooper despite being 37 was still very good, a tad creaky but still formidable and you can see him using all his guile in there against Bugner, who would have won more clearly I think had he had a bit more experience...
Hard to believe that Bug was only 22 when he fought Joe Frazier!...

Bugner's reaction when Gibbs lifts his arm tells the story of the fight for me. Joe was truly astonished.

Carlos-Wigan wrote:

stujones wrote:Now this is just hearsay from stories from my older family members - but didn't Gibbs admit that he wanted to give it to the prospect.

If I am wrong, I am sorry - but this is what I have been told down the years.

Gibbs wrote about it in detail in his autobiography which is a cracker if you can get hold of it, but as far as I remember he wrote that the desicion he gave in favour for Bugner was a fair one and the grief Cooper gave in the media afterwards made his family's life a misery.

I could be wrong though and my mind is playing tricks. Harry Gibb's autobiography is a cracker and Alan Minter's autbiography which was wrtten after he beaten Vito Antuerfermo for the second time is a load of racist crap! (try and get hold of it if you can though... )

I've got Alan Minters biography, but not actually read it. Read a few pages, but didn't really grab me much, it was written at the wrong time really.

What is racist about it out of interest?

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Carlos-Wigan wrote:

stujones wrote:Now this is just hearsay from stories from my older family members - but didn't Gibbs admit that he wanted to give it to the prospect.

If I am wrong, I am sorry - but this is what I have been told down the years.

Gibbs wrote about it in detail in his autobiography which is a cracker if you can get hold of it, but as far as I remember he wrote that the desicion he gave in favour for Bugner was a fair one and the grief Cooper gave in the media afterwards made his family's life a misery.

I could be wrong though and my mind is playing tricks. Harry Gibb's autobiography is a cracker and Alan Minter's autbiography which was wrtten after he beaten Vito Antuerfermo for the second time is a load of racist crap! (try and get hold of it if you can though... )

I've got Alan Minters biography, but not actually read it. Read a few pages, but didn't really grab me much, it was written at the wrong time really.

What is racist about it out of interest?

It was about 20 years ago when I read it James so I'm going on memory here but every time there was a black fighter in the story he would make a big deal about the colour of the fighter and in the foreword there was a quote from his dad about his fighting son 'Alan is a cross between a british bulldog and a German (can't remember) - a mixture that doesn't breed poofs' and you think - 'oh shut up!' After halfway through the book I had to wash my eyes out from reading so much shit!

not read the book but i know alan was/is a good mate of billy knight.
another point is this; if we only read about subjects that agree with our own personal view then we are not getting the full intellectual picture.
this is not to say that alans book is racist rubbish as you claim. i like alan and respect him for providing me and countless others with great entertainment through his achievements in the ring.

harrygreb wrote:not read the book but i know alan was/is a good mate of billy knight.
another point is this; if we only read about subjects that agree with our own personal view then we are not getting the full intellectual picture.
this is not to say that alans book is racist rubbish as you claim. i like alan and respect him for providing me and countless others with great entertainment through his achievements in the ring.

Fair point!

Alan Minter actually goes into great depth about his friendship with Billy Knight and their subsequent fight in the book and how Knight mouthed off in the press conference and Minter had to thrash him 'to teach him a lesson'

I was no fan of Minters and I didn't like how he came across in the book so probably I do have a skewed persperctive, but all I will say to anybody is read the book for yourself and come back and debate your findings!

I probably need to read the book again to stand by any statments on the book.

i always try to have sex before a fight, although i hung up my gloves 25 years ago. i'm going to a fight next friday and i'll attempt to have sex before that one.