BoxRec

I look at the fights today and at the pre fight press conference,the weigh in,and when the fighters are getting their instructions from the referee the fighters seem so tense and nervous.They often try to mask their anxiety by staring down the other guy or trash talking or even starting a fight before the fight.

I remember fighters in the 50's and early 60's would look relaxed at the pre fight conference,casual at the weigh in(smiling ,often shaking hands, wishing the other guy luck) and standing in the center of the ring like it's another day at the job. Don't get me wrong. They probably had the same nerves as the fighters today,but they kept it inside. They seemed more grown up. They went into the fight with a reserve and style that befitted how a fighter should behave. Do your fighting in the ring and don't act like the event has got the best of you. I know there are exceptions today,but I've seen guys go into the ring with a Louis or a Robinson and know they didn't have a chance, but they conducted themselves like a man. A fighter should never give in to his feelings and then try to compensate for them before a fight.

Well, I wouldn't say that of all of today's fighters. Mayweather, Cotto, Mosley, Hopkins, Wright, Morales, Barrera, Pacquiao... they always look pretty calm to me. Some of them may occasionally resort to trash talk, but I don't know if that's a case of them revealing an anxiety, I think its typically showmanship. I could be wrong, of course.

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Edit: I think I'll amend Mosley. Mosley has a tendency to look real worried when things aren't going his way in a fight. He looked pretty cool against Cotto, though.

Salvador Sanchez, Eusebio Pedroza and Alexis Arguello had DEEP CONCENTRATION UNDER PRESSURE

I never really understood the prefight nonsense.
The only reason Im gonna talk shit is to start a fight.
Your already gonna fight anyway so whats the point.
Id say some of the older guys fought so often that they had a very workmanlike and very professional attitude towards there trade.
When you do something all the time, its not such a big deal.
If your fightin all the time, more than likely your in good shape, so alot of the self doubt is removed right there. Along with some jitters .Just go out there and deal.
Your gonna feel confident.
I think of guys like
Fritzie Zivic
Joe Brown
Greb
Walker
Stribling
Willie Pep
Sandy Saddler
Archie Moore
Jack Britton
Kid Lewis
many many more.

dagosd2000 wrote:I look at the fights today and at the pre fight press conference,the weigh in,and when the fighters are getting their instructions from the referee the fighters seem so tense and nervous.They often try to mask their anxiety by staring down the other guy or trash talking or even starting a fight before the fight.

I remember fighters in the 50's and early 60's would look relaxed at the pre fight conference,casual at the weigh in(smiling ,often shaking hands, wishing the other guy luck) and standing in the center of the ring like it's another day at the job. Don't get me wrong. They probably had the same nerves as the fighters today,but they kept it inside. They seemed more grown up. They went into the fight with a reserve and style that befitted how a fighter should behave. Do your fighting in the ring and don't act like the event has got the best of you. I know there are exceptions today,but I've seen guys go into the ring with a Louis or a Robinson and know they didn't have a chance, but they conducted themselves like a man. A fighter should never give in to his feelings and then try to compensate for them before a fight.

So true.

And who started all this currently stylish trash talk?

Ali started it (maybe not literally), the fight game has always had it's rivals, hatred for one another and threat/promises trash talk, but Ali was the one who became famous for it and was the media's bread & butter for years.

Ali got away with it because he was humourous and quick witted and of course could back it up in the ring... well like all 'current treands' they form a new mold and a couple of generations later it becomes the norm yet the outcome is so diverted from whence it started, it's almost not the same thing - DIGRESSION, Shit!

on an old thread at the CBZ, and I might even have posted it here I started a thread "Was Ali good for boxing..?" because of this very subject.

I strongly believe this pattern set the stage for modern day hype, money making media darlings and worse Much PROTECTED Fighters!

jimglen wrote:Ali started it (maybe not literally), the fight game has always had it's rivals, hatred for one another and threat/promises trash talk, but Ali was the one who became famous for it and was the media's bread & butter for years.

Ali got away with it because he was humourous and quick witted and of course could back it up in the ring... well like all 'current treands' they form a new mold and a couple of generations later it becomes the norm yet the outcome is so diverted from whence it started, it's almost not the same thing - DIGRESSION, Shit!

on an old thread at the CBZ, and I might even have posted it here I started a thread "Was Ali good for boxing..?" because of this very subject.

I strongly believe this pattern set the stage for modern day hype, money making media darlings and worse Much PROTECTED Fighters!

I think you make excellent points. Ali was great for boxing in the short term but perhaps not the long term (talking about the act and popularity now, not the fighter). The thing is though we are all products of our time and with the mass media as it is, if it hadn't have been Ali bringing in this hype it would have been someone else eventually.

Trash talking goes back at least to Jack Johnson. (Most of what Ali did wasn't really trash talking.)
The staredown goes back at least to Jack Sharkey.
It's much more common place now, but little of what we see now is really anything new. What I really don't like is when a guy actually takes a cheap shot against another guy (such as what Riddick Bowe did to Larry Donald) at a press confenece or something like that.

I agree that it's all pretty much useless. No decent fighter is going to be intimidated by this kind of stuff.

Ambling Alp wrote:Trash talking goes back at least to Jack Johnson. (Most of what Ali did wasn't really trash talking.)
The staredown goes back at least to Jack Sharkey.
It's much more common place now, but little of what we see now is really anything new. What I really don't like is when a guy actually takes a cheap shot against another guy (such as what Riddick Bowe did to Larry Donald) at a press confenece or something like that.

I agree that it's all pretty much useless. No decent fighter is going to be intimidated by this kind of stuff.

It's all pantomime, that's for sure and just debases the sport. If there's real bad blood then okay but otherwise treat fans with a bit more respect. We know after the fight Floyd Mayweather will drop the act.

In my opinion because of the nature of the sport being brutal the men should act with more dignity.

The thing with Ali si that he was funny and interesting. You can forgive a lot for that, but many fighters are not and their rants just show them up for what they are and make the sport look bad.

It was garbage when Ali did it.

And it is garbage now.

Says the manager of Biff Cline!

edit

People pay too much attention to what fighters do outside the ring.

We got back to Ali again. I think we could start a thread on Mary Pickford and some how we'd get back to Ali. I guess regardless what you think of him,he keeps the momentum going. I think there is some truth about Ali's talk being humorous and self promoting. I mean this guy was on Dean Martin Roasts,Mike Douglas Show,Merv Griffin---how menacing is that? The only time you could get his goat,I think,is when someone called him"Clay" That's why he reacted without his charm with Terrell,Patterson,and Frazier.
I remember when Ali came out of retiremant and fought Quarry. All night long the announcer,Tom Harmon,was saying Clay this and Clay that. I asked myself"Is this this guy going to call him Clay when he interviews him in the ring?" Harmon puts the microphone in Ali's face and says"Nice fight champ" What a jerk!
Now on the other hand I think Ali would like to put the hype and his fighting career behind him. When Ed Bradley was interviewing him on 60 minutes he showed him a picture of him standing over Liston. Bradley asked him what he thought. Ali got up suddenly and walked away from the table saying nothing. Bradley said that Ali's trophies were in the barn in the dark with pidgeon poop all over them. These events speak for themselves. Ali's mind is in a different place. He can't beat up anyone anymore. He can't talk anymore. This is kind of cute. His wife Lonnie is the little black girl back in Louisville with other little girls making a fuss over then Cassius Clay at a park. There's a picture of that. Lonnie said she was always self conscious of her face because she had freckles. Clay(Ali)looked at her and said"Gee you're pretty" Maybe he saw that she was uncomfortable with herself. Lonnie said that was the first time anyone said she was pretty. She was 12 years old.
When I first got on Boxrec I mentioned this. I think it was Granberry who replied I was full of crap. Go for it big guy. You're all right in my book. You sometimes remind me of someone I lost long ago and miss dearly

"...When I first got on Boxrec I mentioned this. I think it was Granberry who replied I was full of crap..." - Dagosd

lol! By astonishing coincidence, Gran was first to reply to me when I arrived, too. I was talking about something but I said the details escaped me, & it was something along the lines of, "A lot escapes you."

Bless his cotton socks.

Composure and poise is a trait that really can not be taught.

Its something in grained in a great fighter. I suppose good training and
experience afford such qualities.

granberry wrote:It was garbage when Ali did it.

And it is garbage now.

Do you really feel that way?

Ok, they have there own magazines, microphones and legions of those that take what they say as being gospel. Fighters and trainers seem to work well with them or take little notice of them.

I am not a boxing insider. BUT going from my sport, I am more interested in hearing from those who were there and who did it than those who are essentially over glorified fans.

Boxing seems to be different. Boxing seems to be a sport where few fighters go on to train, or become media guys. It is always more interested to me anyhow to hear a fighters take on things as opposed to an armchair boxers.


That being sad, I am curious to know what makes alot of these guys credible.

Bert Randolph Sugar - smokes a cigar, has a magazine likes to bag fighetrs and talks with authority as they he has been there done that.

Larry Merchant- Was involved in the Cloverlay group by sponsoring Frazier, then went on to be a business man that sponsors boxing. Got a microphone and now he is more famouse than most fighters.

Thomas Hasuer- Writes a bio on Ali every year.

Al Bernstein- The guy on this list that I like to listen to the most. He is a sports announcer that seems to be more geared to boxing ? A sports analyst.

Those are the guys I am most interested in at this time, but ofcourse there are many others.

I am just curious to know more on them, and what makes them the Guys.

Kym

Robinson wrote:Ok, they have there own magazines, microphones and legions of those that take what they say as being gospel. Fighters and trainers seem to work well with them or take little notice of them.

I am not a boxing insider. BUT going from my sport, I am more interested in hearing from those who were there and who did it than those who are essentially over glorified fans.

Boxing seems to be different. Boxing seems to be a sport where few fighters go on to train, or become media guys. It is always more interested to me anyhow to hear a fighters take on things as opposed to an armchair boxers.


That being sad, I am curious to know what makes alot of these guys credible.

Bert Randolph Sugar - smokes a cigar, has a magazine likes to bag fighetrs and talks with authority as they he has been there done that.

Larry Merchant- Was involved in the Cloverlay group by sponsoring Frazier, then went on to be a business man that sponsors boxing. Got a microphone and now he is more famouse than most fighters.

Thomas Hasuer- Writes a bio on Ali every year.

Al Bernstein- The guy on this list that I like to listen to the most. He is a sports announcer that seems to be more geared to boxing ? A sports analyst.

Those are the guys I am most interested in at this time, but ofcourse there are many others.

I am just curious to know more on them, and what makes them the Guys.

Kym

Bert Sugar is acceptable viewing......... as long as you know nothing about boxing.

Robinson wrote:Ok, they have there own magazines, microphones and legions of those that take what they say as being gospel. Fighters and trainers seem to work well with them or take little notice of them.

I am not a boxing insider. BUT going from my sport, I am more interested in hearing from those who were there and who did it than those who are essentially over glorified fans.

Boxing seems to be different. Boxing seems to be a sport where few fighters go on to train, or become media guys. It is always more interested to me anyhow to hear a fighters take on things as opposed to an armchair boxers.


That being sad, I am curious to know what makes alot of these guys credible.

Bert Randolph Sugar - smokes a cigar, has a magazine likes to bag fighetrs and talks with authority as they he has been there done that.

Larry Merchant- Was involved in the Cloverlay group by sponsoring Frazier, then went on to be a business man that sponsors boxing. Got a microphone and now he is more famouse than most fighters.

Thomas Hasuer- Writes a bio on Ali every year.

Al Bernstein- The guy on this list that I like to listen to the most. He is a sports announcer that seems to be more geared to boxing ? A sports analyst.

Those are the guys I am most interested in at this time, but ofcourse there are many others.

I am just curious to know more on them, and what makes them the Guys.

Kym

Bert Randolph Sugar - is a drunk. Bert has been drunk by early afternoon for the past several decades.
He can't open his mouth about boxing without making a mistake.
He helped to destroy what was left of the RING magazine after Nat Fleischer died.

Larry Merchant- I take it his thing is drugs. His eyes turn backwards inside his head. He is a mess.

Thomas Hauser- is a parasite who attached himself to Ali

That makes him a boxing "expert."

Al Bernstein-not competent

Media coverage of all sports requires a good mix of ex-pros and non-participant experts. Journalists and serious writers with solid ex-boxers is the best way forward.

Bert Sugar has got a nerve really. I mean, he was never a fighter and he gives himself the 'Sugar' handle. I'd be embarrassed. I think he's all over the place but has comic value.

I Feel Fine wrote:Well, I wouldn't say that of all of today's fighters. Mayweather, Cotto, Mosley, Hopkins, Wright, Morales, Barrera, Pacquiao... they always look pretty calm to me. Some of them may occasionally resort to trash talk, but I don't know if that's a case of them revealing an anxiety, I think its typically showmanship. I could be wrong, of course.

-----
Edit: I think I'll amend Mosley. Mosley has a tendency to look real worried when things aren't going his way in a fight. He looked pretty cool against Cotto, though.

Cliff Couser should be added to this list.

Gran...

"Bert Randolph Sugar - is a drunk. Bert has been drunk by early afternoon for the past several decades.
He can't open his mouth about boxing without making a mistake.
He helped to destroy what was left of the RING magazine after Nat Fleischer died."

Agreed.

"Larry Merchant- I take it his thing is drugs. His eyes turn backwards inside his head. He is a mess."

Partly agreed. Makes his share of thoughtless, throw-away comments. Horrible attempts at humour, with occasional exceptions. Sizeable knowledge of the sport, partially obscured by perpetual state of senility & confusion.

"Thomas Hauser- is a parasite who attached himself to Ali.


That makes him a boxing expert."

No arguments there.

"Al Bernstein-not competent."

Gimme a break

I LIKE AL BERNSTEIN

elmersalsa wrote:I LIKE AL BERNSTEIN

That's because he gets on with the job of analysing, without presenting his personal views or feelings to an excessive extent. Not enough conspiratorial bent in him, for Gran's liking, I'm sure.

Bernstein does a very competent job.