BoxRec

It strikes me that fighters at the lighter weights are much more able to go between weights without there being massive physical differences in size and strength, also little guys look more flash because they tend to have better movement and more big champion vs champion fights

It just makes me think think that were for example David Haye were to unify at cruzer then Heavy then his achivements would in my oppinion be just as great as someone who has one one title at 4 devisions however the achivement and P4P rating would judge him lesser.

josh fg wrote:It strikes me that fighters at the lighter weights are much more able to go between weights without there being massive physical differences in size and strength, also little guys look more flash because they tend to have better movement and more big champion vs champion fights

It just makes me think think that were for example David Haye were to unify at cruzer then Heavy then his achivements would in my oppinion be just as great as someone who has one one title at 4 devisions however the achivement and P4P rating would judge him lesser.

Maybe - but if the heavyweight is very skilled then he can top the list.

I seem to remember Tyson and Holyfiled being 1 and 3 once.

DG. wrote:

josh fg wrote:It strikes me that fighters at the lighter weights are much more able to go between weights without there being massive physical differences in size and strength, also little guys look more flash because they tend to have better movement and more big champion vs champion fights

It just makes me think think that were for example David Haye were to unify at cruzer then Heavy then his achivements would in my oppinion be just as great as someone who has one one title at 4 devisions however the achivement and P4P rating would judge him lesser.

Maybe - but if the heavyweight is very skilled then he can top the list.

I seem to remember Tyson and Holyfiled being 1 and 3 once.

I agree. It depends on the division they are unifying. A fighter can unify at a division, say HW, but if that divison is full of tosh he won't be no 1.

Using the example of Haye, he probably will never be #1 as there isn't another HW out there who's top 20, maybe even top 30 P4P, so it's hard to determine just how good he can be.

I've always said that you need to win titles, ideally at multiple divisions and/or beat fighters that are also in the P4P list. Beating a HoF fighters, or two, also helps.

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:

DG. wrote:

josh fg wrote:It strikes me that fighters at the lighter weights are much more able to go between weights without there being massive physical differences in size and strength, also little guys look more flash because they tend to have better movement and more big champion vs champion fights

It just makes me think think that were for example David Haye were to unify at cruzer then Heavy then his achivements would in my oppinion be just as great as someone who has one one title at 4 devisions however the achivement and P4P rating would judge him lesser.

Maybe - but if the heavyweight is very skilled then he can top the list.

I seem to remember Tyson and Holyfiled being 1 and 3 once.

I agree. It depends on the division they are unifying. A fighter can unify at a division, say HW, but if that divison is full of tosh he won't be no 1.

Using the example of Haye, he probably will never be #1 as there isn't another HW out there who's top 20, maybe even top 30 P4P, so it's hard to determine just how good he can be.

I've always said that you need to win titles, ideally at multiple divisions and/or beat fighters that are also in the P4P list. Beating a HoF fighters, or two, also helps.

You see other than the Tzue fight I don't think that Hatton fought a hard champion but becuase he'd been between two devisions he was seen as P4P top 10 withouth having proved himself. Mormeck is in my oppinion probably of a similar level to Tzue.

I dunno Josh, I don't really buy into the whole Tszyu being top 3 p4p when Hatton beat him but he has a far better resume than Momeck (although traveling to France to beat him maybe evened things up a bit).

With answer to your question, take Cotto for example. He could in theory beat Williams, Margarito, Hatton, Mayweather, Cintron, De La Hoya and Clottey (ok will never happen in a million years) to add to his already impressive scalps of Mosley, Judah, Malignaggi, Torres etc

Haye has no way he could ever face that many class fighters, they just aren't out there for him.

josh fg wrote:

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:

DG. wrote: Maybe - but if the heavyweight is very skilled then he can top the list.

I seem to remember Tyson and Holyfiled being 1 and 3 once.

I agree. It depends on the division they are unifying. A fighter can unify at a division, say HW, but if that divison is full of tosh he won't be no 1.

Using the example of Haye, he probably will never be #1 as there isn't another HW out there who's top 20, maybe even top 30 P4P, so it's hard to determine just how good he can be.

I've always said that you need to win titles, ideally at multiple divisions and/or beat fighters that are also in the P4P list. Beating a HoF fighters, or two, also helps.

You see other than the Tzue fight I don't think that Hatton fought a hard champion but becuase he'd been between two devisions he was seen as P4P top 10 withouth having proved himself. Mormeck is in my oppinion probably of a similar level to Tzue.

I see your point about Hatton but no way is Tszyu and Mormeck the same. Kostya was a top 3-5 P4P fighter when Ricky fought him. Mormeck was barely a top 20 p4p fighter, got KTFO by Bell and shouldn't have won the rematch. His only really notable wins were against a past his best Hill.

Remember Kostya destroyed Judah at his optimum weight, Mitchell (when he was good), Chavez (when he was old). Plus wins over Urkal, Tackie and Leija make a good resumé.

For the record, I haven't ever considered Hatton more than a top 5-8 P4P fighter in his prime, and that's at a push.

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:I've always said that you need to win titles, ideally at multiple divisions and/or beat fighters that are also in the P4P list. Beating a HoF fighters, or two, also helps.

Makes you wonder how B-Hop ever got to the top of the P4P list really, doesn't it!

It never used to be about divisions or unifying or whatever. It was about who was the best.

I was reading Ray Robinson's biography last week and he said an interesting point on the GOAT list, which I think applies here.

He said that HWs are always at a disadvantage, as most men tend to be around the Welter to Middle bracket in terms of fight weight (this was before the additional divisions), and can move up in divisions, so there was a better chance of great fighters being in that bracket as they have a greater pool of fighters to challenge them and learn off of.

Smaller fighters aren't the only ones who gain an advantage in the famed p4p lists...

Fighters from the United States of America seem to do extremely well too

yiddo14 wrote:Smaller fighters aren't the only ones who gain an advantage in the famed p4p lists...

Fighters from the United States of America seem to do extremely well too

Admittedly they're produced some fairly decent ones in the last 50 years though. More than any other country by a long way, although we're starting to see a rapid decrease from their lack of amateur program.

yiddo14 wrote:Smaller fighters aren't the only ones who gain an advantage in the famed p4p lists...

Fighters from the United States of America seem to do extremely well too

AND THE UK FIGHTERSWHEN THEY BEAT OLD SHOT FIGHGTERS!

Hi Hatton!