BoxRec

Both in their prime.12 rounds.Who wins.

lennox with an early KO.

bjermaine wrote:lennox with an early KO.

Very unlikely.

Lewis by decision.

Lennox wouldn't knockout the strong-chinned Englishman, but he'd gain the edge with greater offensive output and put Joe into a shell of somewhat with a few of his patented uppercuts. Good competetive fight though. Bugner's jab would give Lennox fits.

dempseyfire wrote:Lewis by decision.

Lennox wouldn't knockout the strong-chinned Englishman, but he'd gain the edge with greater offensive output and put Joe into a shell of somewhat with a few of his patented uppercuts. Good competetive fight though. Bugner's jab would give Lennox fits.

Much more likely.

Lewis by UD but in a some what close fight, one that see's both men trying to establish the jab. Bugner with a faster, though more flicky jab, versus Lewis and his heavier thudding one.

In the middle rounds, Lewis lands his right hand with more authority and works the uppercut well, slowing Bugner's movement up.

The fight slows up with both men circling one another and exchanging jabs and single shots for the last few rounds.

A close fight? When did Bugner make it close against any top fighter? Even Ron Lyle totally shut him out over 12 rds.

Bugner would go into his shell and provide a very durable, immobile target for LL. 120-108 looks probable.

Lyle shut Bugner out? Oi Vey. Bugner did very well early in that fight, but faded late to lose a close decision. I haven't seen the fight since it was broadcast, but remember it quite well.

And Ron Lyle was a VERY good fighter who came within spitting distance of beating both Ali and Foreman.

Lewis wins a convincing, but competitive decision over Bugner.

Lyle-Bugner was a very close fight, Lyle only won it by a couple of rounds.

overhand_right wrote:A close fight? When did Bugner make it close against any top fighter? Even Ron Lyle totally shut him out over 12 rds.

Bugner would go into his shell and provide a very durable, immobile target for LL. 120-108 looks probable.

Close enough, but depends on precisely when you put Lewis' peak. LL from '95 onward went into 'Bare-Minimum' mode for a couple of rounds in every fight, so I'll call it 10-2 Lewis. I think the much faster, much more athletic and slightly greener version of Lewis in '92 shuts him out completely.

Either one puts the little bitch down once or twice en route.

If I remember correctly, Bugner was a racist pudendum, I was cheering way back in '87 when I saw Frank "Know wha I mean, 'arry?" Bruno knock him on his ass.

Lewis by clear-cut decision.

Lewish By Desicion. I don't see a KO of any sort happening.

I give maybe 1 or 2 rounds to Joe MAX

The Great John L wrote:Lyle shut Bugner out? Oi Vey. Bugner did very well early in that fight, but faded late to lose a close decision. I haven't seen the fight since it was broadcast, but remember it quite well.

And Ron Lyle was a VERY good fighter who came within spitting distance of beating both Ali and Foreman.

Lewis wins a convincing, but competitive decision over Bugner.

I love your posts John, but your memory fails you this time. Stop drinking beers paid for you by Joe Bugner!

Lyle was all over Bugner from the opening bell and basically pummelled him. Bugner himself is quoted as saying 'that was the only fight where i asked myself 'why am i doing this?' '.

I love Ron Lyle but he was never going to come out on top v Ali or Foreman. As soon as Ali opened up on him (well other than the 8th rd) on the 11th, Lyle was gone.

overhand_right wrote:

The Great John L wrote:Lyle shut Bugner out? Oi Vey. Bugner did very well early in that fight, but faded late to lose a close decision. I haven't seen the fight since it was broadcast, but remember it quite well.

And Ron Lyle was a VERY good fighter who came within spitting distance of beating both Ali and Foreman.

Lewis wins a convincing, but competitive decision over Bugner.

I love your posts John, but your memory fails you this time. Stop drinking beers paid for you by Joe Bugner!

Lyle was all over Bugner from the opening bell and basically pummelled him. Bugner himself is quoted as saying 'that was the only fight where i asked myself 'why am i doing this?' '.

I love Ron Lyle but he was never going to come out on top v Ali or Foreman. As soon as Ali opened up on him (well other than the 8th rd) on the 11th, Lyle was gone.

Go watch the film, Bugner won at least 5 rounds.
Lyle was "never going to come out on top" vs Foreman and Ali? He had Foreman down twice, the 2nd time face-first . . Foreman had to put forth the fight of his life to win that night. He was leading on the scorecards when he got stopped by Ali.

And saying "as soon as Ali opened up on him, Lyle was gone", seemingly presuming that Ali could've taken him out "whenever he wanted" is beyond ridiculous. That's like saying "as soon as Ali opened up on Foreman (other than the 5th round), he was gone" . . .

Bugner wasn't an all-time great but some are seemingly not giving him credit b/c they didn't like his smug personality (and his inconsistency in the squared circle). But if this fantasy matchup is puting peak vs peak, Bugner on his best night was a forminable opponent. Very fast hands, durable, great left jab, not a big puncher but he could surprise with his power on occasion. Lennox wins but has his hands full. Bugner as a fighter overall was much better than the likes of Hasim Rahman, Michael Grant, Francois Botha, fat Tua etc.

overhand_right wrote:I love your posts John, but your memory fails you this time.

I think the difference here is that I actually saw the fight. And there’s nothing wrong with my memory.

overhand_right wrote:Bugner himself is quoted as saying 'that was the only fight where i asked myself 'why am i doing this?' '.

That could be an accurate quote because Lyle took Joe to deep waters in the second half of the fight. However, since I’ve actually seen the fight, I know that Joe pretty much swept all of the early rounds.

overhand_right wrote:I love Ron Lyle but he was never going to come out on top v Ali or Foreman.

I’ve actually seen those fights too.

mercman wrote:Much of Lyle v Bugner is on Youtube so anyone can watch it. Lyle laid some heavy leather on Bugner late on but he never at any time looked like stopping him. It was a very close fight - the scorecards are there on Youtube too and if anything I would say the fight looks closer than the judges scored it. Bugner won most of the early rounds and had he had more conviction could have won this one.

Thanks, that's just as I remember it. Lyle wanted it more and won it late in a close decision.

Bugner was,indeed, an enigma.

He had such good size ( especially for the '70s ), physical talent ( aside from his less than spectacular power ) & proper schooling that it's almost ridiculous that he lost to the likes of Jack Bodell, Marvis Frazier & Stefan Tangstad. Yeah, by the time of the latter two bouts he was past it & had been retired on & off several times, but still ...

Then there's his completely passive effort in his lone attempt at the world title. Just bizarre.

I've never seen his first fight with Ali, but he must have given a good account of himself during it or he wouldn't have been given a return bout. Correct?

joe kurtz wrote:Bugner was,indeed, an enigma.

He had such good size ( especially for the '70s ), physical talent ( aside from his less than spectacular power ) & proper schooling that it's almost ridiculous that he lost to the likes of Jack Bodell, Marvis Frazier & Stefan Tangstad. Yeah, by the time of the latter two bouts he was past it & had been retired on & off several times, but still ...

Then there's his completely passive effort in his lone attempt at the world title. Just bizarre.

I've never seen his first fight with Ali, but he must have given a good account of himself during it or he wouldn't have been given a return bout. Correct?

Well Ali himself had said that he felt Joe would become champion someday. He gave Joe very high marks.

joe kurtz wrote:I've never seen his first fight with Ali, but he must have given a good account of himself during it or he wouldn't have been given a return bout. Correct?

Yes, it was a very competitive bout.

joe kurtz wrote:Bugner was,indeed, an enigma.

He had such good size ( especially for the '70s ), physical talent ( aside from his less than spectacular power ) & proper schooling that it's almost ridiculous that he lost to the likes of Jack Bodell, Marvis Frazier & Stefan Tangstad. Yeah, by the time of the latter two bouts he was past it & had been retired on & off several times, but still ...

Then there's his completely passive effort in his lone attempt at the world title. Just bizarre.

I've never seen his first fight with Ali, but he must have given a good account of himself during it or he wouldn't have been given a return bout. Correct?

The first fight was much better than the 2nd. Bugner in the rematch I think, like Lyle, was suffering from "Rope-a-Dopeitis" in that he became obsessed with punching himself out and thus failed to exert himself when he needed to.

Has anyone here seen Bugner-Bodell? Was it broadcast on the BBC?

One of the best Bugner showings I think is against Frazier. He ate a lot of hard, solid shots. Both men exchanged well in that fight.

I remember meeting Bugner at a MMA show, he was back stage telling us about Frazier's punches to the body. "Each blow took a day from my lifetime"

I think the fight would play out like Lewis' fight with Zeljko Mavrovic, going the distance with some uneasy moments for Lewis, but nonetheless pulling off the decision.

I could actually see that to, to me be honest/

bjermaine wrote:lennox with an early KO.

Extremely doubtful, to the point of being impossible.

Joe had all the tools to compete with Lennox, Joe's jab would have given Lennox problems. Sure Lennox has more power, but Joe hit hard enough to gain Lennox's respect.

I fancy Lewis over 12, but favour Joe over 15.

dempseyfire wrote:

overhand_right wrote:

He was leading on the scorecards when he got stopped by Ali.

And saying "as soon as Ali opened up on him, Lyle was gone", seemingly presuming that Ali could've taken him out "whenever he wanted" is beyond ridiculous. That's like saying "as soon as Ali opened up on Foreman (other than the 5th round), he was gone" . . .
.

Ali had widely predicted the 8th rd, and as such did very little, allowing Lyle to pile up points until the 8th when he suddenly opened up. He had even predicted what part of the rd he would kayo Lyle.

Later, in the 11th, 1 straight right and Lyle was only saved by the ropes.