BoxRec

This thread is for a discussion of the Boxrec Hall of Fame. It is meant to discuss the merits of candiates that are eligible for the Hall of Fame.
All voting is to be done on the Boxrec Hall of Fame Ballot (May 2008) thread.

To start things off:
There has been some support for Les Darcy and Khaosai Galaxy in the past. I really have a hard judging time how good both of them were. I haven't voted for them in the past. I didn't this time, though I could perhaps be persuaded to change my vote or alteast vote for them next time.

I was wondering why people think they should be elected or or why they shouldn't.
(Of course we can talk about someone else at any point if anyone would rather.)

Khaosai Galaxy was one of the hardest hitting little men of all time. Offensively he was like a pint sized Hagler except that he hit harder in a PFP sense. He never fought another HOF caliber fighter, but he did display near dominance in the division and beat some pretty good fighters decisively TKO 5 Rafael Orono, TKO 2 Edgar Monserrat, KO 5 Israel Contreras, TKO 14 Ellyas Pical, KO 2 Tae Il Chang, TKO 10 Alberto Castro, KO 6 Yong Kang Kim, and TKO 5 David Griman. Quite a few guys who held titles before or after and that 49-1 record with the loss coming early in his career is a good selling point.

I'll make my case for Darcy later if someone else doesn't.

Seamus wrote:Khaosai Galaxy was one of the hardest hitting little men of all time. Offensively he was like a pint sized Hagler except that he hit harder in a PFP sense. He never fought another HOF caliber fighter, but he did display near dominance in the division and beat some pretty good fighters decisively TKO 5 Rafael Orono, TKO 2 Edgar Monserrat, KO 5 Israel Contreras, TKO 14 Ellyas Pical, KO 2 Tae Il Chang, TKO 10 Alberto Castro, KO 6 Yong Kang Kim, and TKO 5 David Griman. Quite a few guys who held titles before or after and that 49-1 record with the loss coming early in his career is a good selling point.

I'll make my case for Darcy later if someone else doesn't.

Galaxy was a force of nature. His power was ridiculous for the weight. With punching power dropping off at those lower weight Galaxy was something of a freak. I think he is deserving of a place and I would vote for him.

Fame is fleeting, but the boxing community owes this man his due.

This man deserves recognition.......period.


Far out in the wilds of Oregon,
On a lonely mountainside,
Where Columbia’s mighty waters
Roll down to the ocean side;
Where the giant fir and cedar
Are imaged in the wave,
O’ergrown with firs and lichens,
I found Jack Dempsey’s grave.

O Fame, why sleeps thy favored son
In wilds, in woods, in weeds,
And shall he ever thus sleep on,
Interred his valiant deeds.
‘Tis strange New York should thus forget
Its “bravest of the brave”
And in the fields of Oregon,
Unmarked leave Dempsey’s grave.

.....ah yes, a fine p0em indeed. and the writer deserve credit ....it was maxie rosenbloom..

Jaclem wrote:.....ah yes, a fine p0em indeed. and the writer deserve credit ....it was maxie rosenbloom..

M.J. McMahon is given credit for it....is it a pseudonym?

Hear are a few testimonials for the NonPareil Jack Dempsey....please consider him in your voting.


Richard Fox (1889, p. 8) wrote “… his agility and quickness on his legs and his thorough knowledge of pedal motion - handicaps any boxer he faces in the roped arena”.

John McCallum (1974, p 125) says “Dempsey brought polished boxing skill … and an appreciation of the finer points of ringmanship to the modern ring”.

Richard Fox (1889, p. 7) says “His style and method of boxing has a neatness about it … He stops blows aimed at him by his adversaries with so much skill, and hits his antagonist with such terrific force and comparative ease, that he astonishes and terrifies his opponents beyond measure … those ambitious to win the title of the middleweight champion are soon convinced of his superior knowledge and athletic prowess”.

Luckett Davis says “ … he used his intelligence and agility to defeat his opponents, making good use of feints and a quick left jab”. He adds “… he was an excellent boxer-puncher and ring general”.

Marshall Stillman (1920, p. 87) wrote that Dempsey “retained the middleweight championship for many years and was exceedingly scientific, securing his victories more through science than through rough tactics.”

In addition to being an extremely clever boxer, he was quite valuable to have as a trainer or second during a contest. He seconded Joe Choynski against Jim Corbett and Choynski lasted 27 rounds. He seconded Jack McAuliffe against Jimmy Carroll and McAuliffe won the Lightweight title. He worked as trainer and second on many other occasions and even advised Bob Fitzsimmons later in his career.

Good arguments in favor of Darcy, Galaxy and Dempsey guys.
Also take a look at Fritzie Zivic.
He beat some legends and fought a whos who of boxings big names.
This guy was a fighters , fighter.
Ya didnt wanna go near this dude unless you really knew how to fight.
He would provide a real education.

He fought:
Sugar Ray Robinson
Charley Burley
Henry Armstrong
Jake Lamotta
Billy Conn
Beau Jack
Bob Montgomery
Sammy Angott
Eddie Booker
Eddie Cool
Bummy Davis
Lew Jenkins
Tommy Bell
Kid Azteca
many others.

He beat alot of those guys and many he fought multiple times!

Hi all, I had nothin much to do today so I did this, It was an easier way for me to think about those already "in". If its been done already then it doesn't really matter because it was a boit of fun. One thing I noticed was
the number of draws that Sam Langford had, Also the saddest entry was probably that of Salvador Sanchez, He could have dominated for a long time.
The outsatnding record of course is that of Marciano and the most surprising was that of "Jersey Joe" should he be in here based on his record alone? Discuss.
Oh also Cubans seem to be over represented what a shame they have been on the outside of the proffessional game for so long.
Now I am off to see if I can get an aussie or two into my list.

(PS, It looked better in my excel spreadsheet)

Name Class Record Win/Loss
MuhammadAli Heavyweight 56 (37) - 5 (1) - 0 91.80
Lou Ambers Lightweight 94 (31) - 8 (2) - 7 86.24
Henry Armstrong Welterweight149 (101) - 21 (2) - 10 82.78
Abe Attell Featherweight 125 (51) - 17 (5) - 21 76.69
Carmen Basilio Welterweight 56 (27) - 16 (2) - 7 70.89
Wilfred Benitez Light Middleweight 53 (31) - 8 (4) - 1 85.48
Nino Benvenuti Middleweight 82 (35) - 7 (3) - 1 91.11
Al Brown Bantamweight 134 (61) - 19 (0) - 13 80.72
Charlie Burley Middleweight 83 (50) - 12 (0) - 2 85.57
Tony Canzoneri Lightweight 141 (44) - 24 (1) - 10 80.57
Marcel Cerdan Middleweight 111 (65) - 4 (1) - 0 96.52
Ezzard Charles Heavyweight 90 (51) - 25 (7) - 1 77.59
Kid Chocolate Featherweight 136 (51) - 10 (2) - 6 89.47
Billy Conn Light Heavyweight 64 (15) - 12 (3) - 1 83.12
Jack Dempsey Heavyweight 66 (51) - 6 (1) - 11 79.52
George Foreman Heavyweight 76 (68) - 5 (1) - 0 93.83
Bob FitzsimmonsLight Heavyweight 51 (44) - 8 (7) - 5 79.69
Tiger Flowers Middleweight 136 (56) - 15 (9) - 8 85.53
Bob Foster Light Heavyweight 56 (46) - 8 (6) - 1 86.15
Joe Frazier Heavyweight 32 (27) - 4 (3) - 1 86.49
Joe Gans Middleweight 121 (51) - 25 (5) - 11 77.07
Kid Gavilan Welterweight 108 (28) - 30 (0) - 5 75.52
Wilfredo Gomez Super Bantamweight 44 (42) - 3 (3) - 1 91.67
Harry Greb Greb 260 (48) - 21 (2) - 17 87.25
Emile Griffith Welterweight 85 (23) - 24 (2) - 2 76.58
Marvin Hagler Middleweight 62 (52) - 3 (0) - 2 92.54
James Jeffries Heavyweight 17 (14) - 1 (1) - 2 85.00
Harold Johnson Light Heavyweight 76 (32) - 10 (4) - 0 88.37
Jack Johnson Heavyweight 89 (49) - 14 (7) - 12 77.39
Eder Jofre Bantamweight 72 (50) - 2 (0) - 4 92.31
Stanley Ketchel Middleweight 54 (49) - 4 (2) - 5 85.71
Jake LaMotta Middleweight 83 (30) - 19 (4) - 4 78.30
Sam Langford Heavyweight 201 (130) - 47 (9) - 45 68.60
Benny Leonard Lightweight 183 (70) - 18 (4) - 12 85.92
Ray Leonard Welterweight 36 (25) - 3 (1) - 1 90.00
Sonny Liston Heavyweight 50 (39) - 4 (3) - 0 92.59
Duilio Loi Light Welterweight 115 (26) - 3 (0) - 8 91.27
Tommy Loughran Light Heavyweight 116 (17) - 30 (3) - 13 72.96
Joe Louis Heavyweight 69 (55) - 3 (2) - 0 95.83
Rocky Marciano Heavyweight 49 (43) - 0 (0) - 0 100.00
Mike McCallum Middleweight 49 (36) - 5 (0) - 1 89.09
Jimmy McLarnin Welterweight 54 (21) - 11 (1) - 3 79.41
Packey McFarland Lightweight 101 (51) - 1 (1) - 7 92.66
Terry McGovern Featherweight 65 (44) - 6 (2) - 7 83.33
Carlos Monzon Middleweight 87 (59) - 3 (0) - 9 87.88
Archie MooreLight Heavyweight185 (131) - 23 (7) - 11 84.47
Jose Napoles Welterweight 79 (55) - 7 (4) - 0 91.86
Reuben Olivares Bantamweight 88 (77) - 13 (9) - 3 84.62
Carlos Ortiz Lightweight 61 (30) - 7 (1) - 1 88.41
Wille Pep Featherweight 229 (65) - 11 (6) - 1 95.02
Ray Robinson Middleweight 173 (108) - 19 (1) - 6 87.37
Barney Ross Welterweight 74 (22) - 4 (0) - 3 91.36
Sandy Saddler Featherweight 144 (103) - 16 (1) - 2 88.89
Salvador Sanchez Featherweight 44 (32) - 1 (0) - 1 95.65
Michael Spinks Light Heavyweight 31 (21) - 1 (1) - 0 96.88
Dick Tiger Middleweight 60 (27) - 19 (2) - 3 73.17
Gene Tunney Light Heavyweight 81 (48) - 1 (0) - 3 95.29
Joe Walcott Heavyweight 52 (33) - 18 (6) - 2 72.22
Mickey Walker Middleweight 109 (58) - 22 (6) - 5 80.15
Jimmy Wilde Flyweight 137 (99) - 5 (3) - 2 95.14
Ike Williams Lightweight 125 (60) - 24 (6) - 5 81.17
Carlos Zarate. Bantamweight 66 (63) - 4 (2) - 0 94.29

OK, in defense of my choice of Les Darcy, I'll say that at first glance his career record of 46-4 probably sounds pretty good but not necessarily great, so I'll begin my explaining away 3 of Darcy's 4 losses.

Les Darcy's first loss was a 20 rd loss to Bob Whitelaw in a fight his manager didn't want him to take due to the condition of his hands after a 20 rd bout 9 days earlier. By contrast, Whitelaw had had nearly a 3 month rest from his previous bout. 4 months later Darcy put Whitelaw away in 5.

Darcy's 3rd loss came in the 18th rd against Fritz Holland (who beat Darcy in a close 20 rd bout almost 3 months earlier) when he was DQ'd for a low blow in a fight in which he was way ahead. The following year 1915, Darcy would avenge the losses by beating Holland in a clear 20 rd decision and by a 13th rd stoppage.

Darcy's 4th loss was also controversial and it came against Jeff Smith, a guy who ended up with a pretty impressive resume. In the 5th Darcy hurt Smith with a counter right to the head, and Smith answered back with a hard right that was low and doubled up Darcy. Darcy's corner through in the towel in protest at the referee's failure to call a foul and the bout was ruled a DQ in favor of Smith. Later Darcy said he recovered quickly and regretted the stoppage. Almost 4 months later, Smith hit Darcy to the groin in the rematch and this time was DQ'd in 2nd.

As for Darcy's wins, in addition to avenging his losses against the 3 fighters who beat him under dubious circumstances, he also stopped Eddie McGoorty (a guy with a pair of wins over both Jack Dillon and Battling Levinsky) twice, in the 15th and 8th rounds. Took a pair of 20 rd decisions, the first of which was by a wide margin, from Jimmy Clabby who had wins over Mike Gibbons and the Dixie Kid. He also stopped Buck Crouse in the 2nd, Dave Smith in the 12th and the 11th, and in his final bout he put George Chip down for the count in the 9th. Chip was well rested and coming off a victory over Harry Greb.

..boxbuzz...yes..rosenbloom wrote under that pen name..as he did with t.s.eliot..

Jaclem wrote:..boxbuzz...yes..rosenbloom wrote under that pen name..as he did with t.s.eliot..

not Robert Frost?

..rober frost was max baer...

Jaclem wrote:..rober frost was max baer...

Jaclem,

What pen name did Ezzard Charles use?

Jaclem wrote:..rober frost was max baer...

... and Joe Louis was Derek Walcott





The good humor is always welcome

I'm thinking to vote Les Darcy, Nonpareil Jack Dempsey, Khaosai Galaxy and greatest Southamericans like Jose Carattoli, Angel Rodriguez, Mauro Mina, Eduardo Lausse, Rafael Merentino, Justo Suarez, Betulio Gonzalez, Horacio Accavallo, Jorge Fernandez...

Seamus wrote:OK, in defense of my choice of Les Darcy, I'll say that at first glance his career record of 46-4 probably sounds pretty good but not necessarily great, so I'll begin my explaining away 3 of Darcy's 4 losses.
Les Darcy's first loss was a 20 rd loss to Bob Whitelaw in a fight his manager didn't want him to take due to the condition of his hands after a 20 rd bout 9 days earlier. By contrast, Whitelaw had had nearly a 3 month rest from his previous bout. 4 months later Darcy put Whitelaw away in 5.

Darcy's 3rd loss came in the 18th rd against Fritz Holland (who beat Darcy in a close 20 rd bout almost 3 months earlier) when he was DQ'd for a low blow in a fight in which he was way ahead. The following year 1915, Darcy would avenge the losses by beating Holland in a clear 20 rd decision and by a 13th rd stoppage.

Darcy's 4th loss was also controversial and it came against Jeff Smith, a guy who ended up with a pretty impressive resume. In the 5th Darcy hurt Smith with a counter right to the head, and Smith answered back with a hard right that was low and doubled up Darcy. Darcy's corner through in the towel in protest at the referee's failure to call a foul and the bout was ruled a DQ in favor of Smith. Later Darcy said he recovered quickly and regretted the stoppage. Almost 4 months later, Smith hit Darcy to the groin in the rematch and this time was DQ'd in 2nd.

As for Darcy's wins, in addition to avenging his losses against the 3 fighters who beat him under dubious circumstances, he also stopped Eddie McGoorty (a guy with a pair of wins over both Jack Dillon and Battling Levinsky) twice, in the 15th and 8th rounds. Took a pair of 20 rd decisions, the first of which was by a wide margin, from Jimmy Clabby who had wins over Mike Gibbons and the Dixie Kid. He also stopped Buck Crouse in the 2nd, Dave Smith in the 12th and the 11th, and in his final bout he put George Chip down for the count in the 9th. Chip was well rested and coming off a victory over Harry Greb.

Darcy needs no 'defense.'

He would have been a formidable opponent for ANY middleweight (Ketchel, Walker, Greb, Zale etc.) who ever lived--

because of his punch, strength, boxing ability, and ability to wear even a top level opponent down by his constant pressure, combined with his excellent defense--making him very hard to hit even while he was pressuring you.

Luckily there are films of Darcy to show this.

Thanks for all those details on his career.

ezzard charles was no poet. but he did paint a few pictures under the pseudonym of Jackson Pollock

.....finally..ezzard gets full recognition ....though it was a secret he kept all of his life. i think i am the only other person who knew it..

Another revealed secret of near of 1867: Marquis of Queensberry don't wrote all we know, no, it was a work of an adolescent named Oscar Wilde

harrygreb wrote:ezzard charles was no poet. but he did paint a few pictures under the pseudonym of Jackson Pollock

On May 23, 1948, in Bruxelles, the meeting of Marcel Cerdan and Cyrille Delannoit was, really, a gathering between Samuel Beckett (Welterweight) and Eugène Ionesco (Light Heavyweight); the result? No Contest

Ezzard Charles painted better than Jackson Pollock.

Any housepainter painted better than Pollock.

Jaclem wrote:.....finally..ezzard gets full recognition ....though it was a secret he kept all of his life. i think i am the only other person who knew it..

Other little known facts:

Panama Al Brown wrote the Beethoven symphonies.

Jack Sharkey wrote the Shakespeare sonnets.

Dear Ambling Alp,

Now, how many votes are needed to be elected?