BoxRec

Arguably, who was responsible for the downfall of Ruddock..

Some say The Two Fights with Tysons finished him, and he never recovered,

Other say Lewis was responsible for ruining his career.

I must say i'm surprised he was KO'd so early to Lewis, since with his Rematch with Tyson, Ruddock took some shocking punishment in the first few rounds and weathered the storm pretty good even though Lost pretty obviously.

Its surprising how he just folded under Lewis's Punches in their fight, not more than Tyson's though, i cant help but think he was psychologically gone after the Tyson Fights.

What do you guys think

I think Lewis just fought a good and smart fight and landed clean and well onto Ruddock.

The Morrison loss thereafter also I think ensured him staying out of the picture.

Tyson losses kept people interested.

Lewis loss was devastating but he still was only a good win away from being relevant.

Morrison loss was his 'last' chance and he could never get back into it. He lost the fights he needed to win essentially.

Kym

Agree the Morrison Loss was probably would Destroyed any chance of a comeback.

his performance in the Tyson Fight and Morrison fight were quite shockingly different.

He was certainly shot by the time he fought Morrison IMO

Before Ruddock truly learned the power of "the smash" as he called his right uppercut and became more or less a bruiser, he could box a little bit; in all honesty, I think that was the beginning of his down fall...it happens to alot of fighters, Tyson was one of them, getting lazy in the ring and becoming head hunters.

The Morrison fight is one of my favorites, but you can't quite criticise Ruddock for the loss, considering he been gone for so long; the fight paved the way for Morrison to fight Lewis, and the fight also was the end of Ruddock, ironic in a sense that when he was younger he ended the career come back hopes of Dynamite Dokes, in what was possibly the sickest knock out of all time.

I believe the second loss to Tyson finished Razor off. Until the Tyson fights he was just about the most dangerous contender out there. In the first Tyson fight he gave it a good go and was stopped in the seventh. However in the second fight he took a prolonged beating, sustaining a broken jaw but still seeing the final bell after 12 rounds. It was one of the most courageous performances I've seen by a heavyweight. It did however sound the death knell of Razor Ruddocks top level career at heavyweight.

I don't think the Tyson fights "ruined" Ruddock. Ruddock was always wide open for counters throughout his career (look at the Bonecrusher Smith fight) and Lewis just capitalized much better than Tyson. After Lennox, Ruddock became very inactive and gained a good deal of weight. He didn't look 'shot' vs Morrison to me, he was actually using his jab a little and throwing the right more which he neglected in his early 90s peak. He just got caught with a Hail Mary punch and his reflexes were probably a little slower than before b/c of the extra 15-20 lbs.

I think it was the Lewis fight that really ended his career in the big time.
After the Tyson fights, he was still only 27, and until the Tyson fights he hadn't taken that much punishment. He should have been fine physically.

He looked pretty good in his two fights between the Tyson and Lewis fights. I certainly don't recall anyone saying that he was washed up before the Lewis fights.

He was unlucky in some aspects.
-In the first Tyson fight, the referee (the great Richard Steele) stopped the fight without even looking at Ruddock to see if he was hurt.

-In the Lewis fight, he may have been unfortunate to have caught Lewis on one of his best nights.


-Against Morrison, he had Morrison hurt and the referee didn't stop it. Then when he got hurt himself, the referee stopped it. By then, he had declined as a fighter and probably wasn't going to be a serious threat but who knows.

He never seemed to mentally come back after the devastating loss to Lewis. He probably would have lost to Lewis and Tyson most of the time anyway. He certainly had some flaws as a fighter, however he was proably good enough to grab a WBS title belt from some beltholder, but it wasn't to be.

He was just a very good contender that may have fared better in another time.

I liked the Morrison fight and it was just Tommy's night I think. The Ruddock-Tyson fights are always fun to watch.

I think after he was KO'd by Lewis it was hard for him to gain momentum, and claw his way up into the picture. Contray to many in the media at that time the sport had some pretty interesting HW about the place.

Kym

observer1 wrote:Some say The Two Fights with Tysons finished him, and he never recovered,

Other say Lewis was responsible for ruining his career.

The difference was Ruddock could tie up short little Tyson when he was hurt & smother him --and Tyson was always willing to accept a clinch.

Lewis kept him well out of range and blew him away with sharper harder longer shots than Tyson landed in 19 rds. Plus Lewis was a better finisher.

Anyone who sees Ruddocks 2 fights after Tyson - Greg Page and Phil Jackson can see he's the exact same guy who fought Tyson, blew out Dokes, beat Smith etc. It was same old Ruddock, he just never came across anyone like Lewis.

Ruddock wasn't shot v Morrison, just fat and rusty after only 1 fight in 2 and a half years. I always thought that was a bad stoppage and Morrison was gonna drop in the next rd.

dempseyfire wrote:I don't think the Tyson fights "ruined" Ruddock. Ruddock was always wide open for counters throughout his career (look at the Bonecrusher Smith fight) and Lewis just capitalized much better than Tyson.

Exactly. Spot on.

People forget Bonecrusher also had Ruddock down in the same manner that Lewis did years later, only Lewis wasn't 37 years old like Bone was.

Ambling Alp wrote:He looked pretty good in his two fights between the Tyson and Lewis fights. I certainly don't recall anyone saying that he was washed up before the Lewis fights.
.

This is what the hardcore Tysonites always try to avoid-- that pesky video tape evidence of his 2 subsequent Tyson fights, Page & Jackson.

overhand_right wrote:

Ambling Alp wrote:He looked pretty good in his two fights between the Tyson and Lewis fights. I certainly don't recall anyone saying that he was washed up before the Lewis fights.
.

This is what the hardcore Tysonites always try to avoid-- that pesky video tape evidence of his 2 subsequent Tyson fights, Page & Jackson.

?

overhand_right wrote:

observer1 wrote:Some say The Two Fights with Tysons finished him, and he never recovered,

Other say Lewis was responsible for ruining his career.

The difference was Ruddock could tie up short little Tyson when he was hurt & smother him --and Tyson was always willing to accept a clinch.

.

Good point. The Tyson-Ruddock fights especially the rematch was a clinch-extravaganza. Fairly over-rated fight IMO.

observer1 wrote:

overhand_right wrote:

Ambling Alp wrote:He looked pretty good in his two fights between the Tyson and Lewis fights. I certainly don't recall anyone saying that he was washed up before the Lewis fights.
.

This is what the hardcore Tysonites always try to avoid-- that pesky video tape evidence of his 2 subsequent Tyson fights, Page & Jackson.

?

I think what he is trying to say is that Ruddock wasn't washed up at the time that he got crushed by Lewis.
Some people claim that he was, which of course diminishes Lewis' achievement.
He used Ruddocks wins over Page and Jackson (which were after he fought Tyson but before he fought Lewis) as evidence that Ruddock wasn't washed up when he fought Lewis. I believe that is a valid claim and mentioned it myself earlier.

He used the term "Tysonites" as those who were making the claim that Ruddock was washed up by the time he fought Lewis. Some Tyson fans like to make this claim because it otherwise it's obvious that Lewis handled Ruddock a lot easier than Tyson was able to.
Of course other people besides "Tysonites" make the claim that Ruddock was washed before he fought Lewis as well.

I agree with overhand right that Ruddock wasn't washed up by the Lewis fight and said so earlier.

Exactly mate, spot on.

I have all the videos of pre-Tyson Ruddock, and he looks equally menacing post Tyson, against Page and Jackson.

And Lewis still splattered him, easily. Tough for hardcore Tyson fans to come to terms with.

ah i see, thanks for clearing that up.

Personally i thought he was Finished after the Quick KO By Lewis.

I dont see why "Tysonites" (lol?) feel a quick KO By Lewis against Ruddock undermines what went on in the Tyson-Ruddock Fights.

Tyson was fighting pretty Poorly in their last fight but still managed to Knockdown Ruddock twice and took some huge hits himself.

I personally think Ruddock was expected to take more than he could against Tyson and Lewis.

Not to take anything away from him, but Losing to a A grade Fighter like Tyson twice did him no good.

The next A Grade fighter Was Lewis and he got KO'd Quickly. Which was mentally career ending.

Was obvious, although as good as he was, he could not cope with the Top Class fighters.

overhand_right wrote:Exactly mate, spot on.

I have all the videos of pre-Tyson Ruddock, and he looks equally menacing post Tyson, against Page and Jackson.

And Lewis still splattered him, easily. Tough for hardcore Tyson fans to come to terms with.

Styles make fights. Holyfield had a slugfest with Alex Stewart but Tyson demolished Stewart in seconds. But who won Holyfield-Tyson? Or look at Tyson-Bruno and then Bruno-Lewis . . . .But yes.the crazed Tyson fans do love to claim Ruddock was some great fighter before he fought Tyson. He wasn't, he was a very hard punching but extremely limited boxer who gained a name feasting on past-it names from the 80s.

I saw a similar reaction to Sam Peter prior to his embarassments vs Wlad and Toney. Except Peter only had one highlight reel one-punch KO (Williams) while Razor had several (Smith, Gross, Dokes)

observer1 wrote:I dont see why "Tysonites" (lol?) feel a quick KO By Lewis against Ruddock undermines what went on in the Tyson-Ruddock Fights.

Because they are Tysonites, not boxing fans, they tend to be obsessed with Ike Ibeabuchi also, dont seem to much follow the sport outside of Tyson and think hes the greatest person or thing that ever existed ever.

observer1 wrote: Was obvious, although as good as he was, he could not cope with the Top Class fighters.

Actually not totally true - he had the power to bludgeon just about anybody, just out of the 2 'A class' prime guys he fought, Tyson had a freakish cement chin and Lewis sensibly kept his less sturdy chin waaay out of range.

Like Dempsey said styles make fights, i think Ruddock really matches up well with Riddick Bowe, a guy who came forward, not much interest in defence and not the sturdiest of chins. Ruddock is one guy, like Lewis, who might of been able to exploit Bowe whereas most would get battered by Big Daddy.

BTW the way Ruddock splattered big dangerous guys like Larry Alexander and Reggie Gross was fookin specacular! He sent both men literally flying!!

overhand_right wrote:

observer1 wrote:I dont see why "Tysonites" (lol?) feel a quick KO By Lewis against Ruddock undermines what went on in the Tyson-Ruddock Fights.

Because they are Tysonites, not boxing fans, they tend to be obsessed with Ike Ibeabuchi also, dont seem to much follow the sport outside of Tyson and think hes the greatest person or thing that ever existed ever.

observer1 wrote: Was obvious, although as good as he was, he could not cope with the Top Class fighters.

Actually not totally true - he had the power to bludgeon just about anybody, just out of the 2 'A class' prime guys he fought, Tyson had a freakish cement chin and Lewis sensibly kept his less sturdy chin waaay out of range.

Like Dempsey said styles make fights, i think Ruddock really matches up well with Riddick Bowe, a guy who came forward, not much interest in defence and not the sturdiest of chins. Ruddock is one guy, like Lewis, who might of been able to exploit Bowe whereas most would get battered by Big Daddy.

BTW the way Ruddock splattered big dangerous guys like Larry Alexander and Reggie Gross was fookin specacular! He sent both men literally flying!!

I disagree about Ruddock-Bowe . . it would've been a helluva slugfest (esp. in the early rounds) but Razor's complete lack of a jab or inside fight game would spell doom for him. Bowe via KO by brutal uppercut as Razor lazily attempts to lay on the inside sometime after the 5th.

Based on Bowe's competition, I'd give a prime Ruddock a better than even shot of knocking him out.

Compared to the competition that Ruddock defeated in his career.

razzor was good and was capable and could be exciting...while also boring.

He is like Chuvalo in the sense that in his time he was a very real contender that should be taken serious. But history would expose both mens short comings and perhaps in another era each one of those tough Canadians may have worn the strap...or a strap.

I think Bowe and Ruddock would have been a damned fun war. But I think razzor succumbs late, looks for the 'smash' to often and is countered and intercepted. Both men have good moments, Bowe's jab sets the ultimate pace and the fight goes to Bowe on the cards or even as a late fight TKO.

I think Razor would easily win one or more belts in this era, if not unify the division.

Cap wrote:Based on Bowe's competition, I'd give a prime Ruddock a better than even shot of knocking him out.

Agreed.

Robinson wrote:razzor was good and was capable and could be exciting...while also boring.

Ruddock 'boring'? The guy was trying to knock someones block clean off every second of every rd.

What the frick are you talking about 'boring'??

He could be boring during the 1980s.

I agree he would at times come in to fight, but
that was only after about 1990 or so.

I just watched his bout with Weaver and that
was far from being exciting.