BoxRec

Not a bad read...

http://dmboxing.com/WordPress/?p=26

bacerra is probably one of the most underrated mexicans of all time and should easily make the list

Having Chavez anywhere but 1st devalues the entire list. Not only is Chavez the greatest Mexican-born fighter of all time he is arguably one of 20 greatest fighters of all time, PERIOD, as well.

While I believe Salvador Sanchez had the most potential of all, picking the greatest Mexican born fighter of all time is a no brainer. It's Julio Cesar Chavez and Olivares isn't even close.

I'd be interested who the champ, El Gato, thinks should be on this list.

Olivares might have been a bigger talent, but he could be inconsistent and so you're right, J.C. Chavez should have been #1

Jorge wrote:becerra is probably one of the most underrated mexicans of all time and should easily make the list

YES.

Rodolfo "Gato" Gonzalez Ratings

Here's my list although I have 4 different categories of fighters---

GREAT CLASSIC BOXERS
#1 Raul "Raton" Macias
#2 Jose Becerra
#3 Efren "Alacran" Torres
#4 Mauro Vasquez
#5 Rafael Herrera
There are many more great classic boxers like "Baby" Vasquez, Jose Medel, "Battling" Torres, "Toluco" Lopez, Vicente Saldivar. (I probably belong in this list somewhere being that I hold the record for the most consecutive knockouts of any champion in boxing history and am also listed among the 100 greatest punchers of all time.)

GREAT BOXER PUNCHERS
#1 Julio Cesar Chavez
#2 Ruben Olivares
#3 Salvador Sanchez
#4 "Pipino" Cuevas
#5 "Pajarito" Moreno

OLD TIME BOXING GREATS
#1 Kid Azteca (The king of the liver punch)
#2 Rodolfo "Chango" Casanova
#3 Lauro Salas
#4 Juan Zurita
#5 Alfredo "Canelo" Urbina

UNKNOWN BOXING GREATS
#1 Alfredo "Molote" Cota (The fighter who fought "The fight of the Century")
#2 Mario Diaz
#3 Vicente "El Tortas" Garcia
#4 Chocolate Sanbrano
#5 Perico Lopez

El Gato

How about Baby Casanova. When he was only 17 he became the only man to ever stop the outstanding Newsboy Brown. It was Brown's last fight, but he was coming off a win over Chalky Wright, and it was only Casanova's 11th pro fight. In addition to beating Brown, he also stopped Speedy Dado and decisioned Young Tommy, before his 18th birthday. And for the rest of his career he beat Juan Zurita 4 times (twice by stoppage) Speedy Dado twice more, Young Tommy a second time, and Midget Wolgast, Baby Arizmendi, Freddie Miller and Kid Azteca once each, and had a DQ win over Henry Armstrong.

Don't forget Enrique Bolanos, who was a great fighter in a great boxing era, I have always said ,that if not for Ike Williams, Bolanos would have been champion.

El Gato wrote:Rodolfo "Gato" Gonzalez Ratings

Here's my list although I have 4 different categories of fighters---

GREAT CLASSIC BOXERS
#1 Raul "Raton" Macias
#2 Jose Becerra
#3 Efren "Alacran" Torres
#4 Mauro Vasquez
#5 Rafael Herrera
There are many more great classic boxers like "Baby" Vasquez, Jose Medel, "Battling" Torres, "Toluco" Lopez, Vicente Saldivar. (I probably belong in this list somewhere being that I hold the record for the most consecutive knockouts of any champion in boxing history and am also listed among the 100 greatest punchers of all time.)

GREAT BOXER PUNCHERS
#1 Julio Cesar Chavez
#2 Ruben Olivares
#3 Salvador Sanchez
#4 "Pipino" Cuevas
#5 "Pajarito" Moreno

OLD TIME BOXING GREATS
#1 Kid Azteca (The king of the liver punch)
#2 Rodolfo "Chango" Casanova
#3 Lauro Salas
#4 Juan Zurita
#5 Alfredo "Canelo" Urbina

UNKNOWN BOXING GREATS
#1 Alfredo "Molote" Cota (The fighter who fought "The fight of the Century")
#2 Mario Diaz
#3 Vicente "El Tortas" Garcia
#4 Chocolate Sanbrano
#5 Perico Lopez

El Gato

Thanks Champ!

El Gato wrote:Rodolfo "Gato" Gonzalez Ratings
. . .

OLD TIME BOXING GREATS
#1 Kid Azteca (The king of the liver punch)
#2 Rodolfo "Chango" Casanova
#3 Lauro Salas
#4 Juan Zurita
#5 Alfredo "Canelo" Urbina

. . .

El Gato,

Look at the cover of this Mexican comic book that was in sale on ebay a while ago:

So many great mexican fighters but there shouldn't be any doubt that JC Chavez is the greatest of them all.

Zarate,despite his stumble against the great Gomez,certainly deserves a mention.54-2 with 53 KO before his comeback and no way he lost that fight to Pintor.

Zarate is definitly one of the best Mexican fighters of all time some even have him ranked as the greatest bantamweight of all time ahead of Jofre(not saying I agree but some do).

Olivares is definietly overrated on this list (and IMO, he is somewhat overrated in general).

He only had a brief few years in which he looked great, but he never really was the same after being manhandled twice by Rafael Herrera. It's very much worth noting that Herrera twice beat Oliveras at his own game.

Personally, I would move Olivares down to the bottom of that list, and I would switch Sanchez and Saldivar.

My2Sense wrote:. . .

It's very much worth noting that Herrera twice beat Oliveras at his own game.
. . .

It's very much worth noting that Olivares was having trouble making the bantamweight limit at that time and

NEVER FOUGHT AGAIN AS A BANTAMWEIGHT.

granberry wrote:

My2Sense wrote:. . .

It's very much worth noting that Herrera twice beat Oliveras at his own game.
. . .

It's very much worth noting that Olivares was having trouble making the bantamweight limit at that time and

NEVER FOUGHT AGAIN AS A BANTAMWEIGHT.

Only ONE of their fights was at bantamweight, though.

My2Sense wrote:

granberry wrote:

My2Sense wrote:. . .

It's very much worth noting that Herrera twice beat Oliveras at his own game.
. . .

It's very much worth noting that Olivares was having trouble making the bantamweight limit at that time and

NEVER FOUGHT AGAIN AS A BANTAMWEIGHT.

Only ONE of their fights was at bantamweight, though.

How is it a disgrace to lose to a great fighter like Rafael Herrera? Rafael, in the opinion of many, was the second best bantamweight of a strong era that included the likes of Pimental, Castillo, Martinez, Anaya, Lara, Gomez and Guerrero. (I think Ruben was the best of that era.)

My2Sense is correct that only the first fight was at bantam, but Ruben had contracted to fight Herrera the second time at 120. At the weigh-in, he came in at 121-1/2 and had to lose the extra weight in the steam room. Yet Ruben, always the gracious loser, refused to blame the loss on the weight reduction, commenting that "It didn't affect my fighting...I just couldn't get excited about the fight." So Granberry is right when he suggests that Ruben had trouble making the weight on two occasions. However, only the first fight was at the bantamweight limit.

I don't know if the prime 118 Olivares is overrated.He was pretty special.At 126 he was almost fleshy,partly because he was short and moreso because he was a notorious partier.He was still a force but inconsistent.He was 51-0 when he blew out Rose,his final record shows that he won about 3/4 of of the rest of his bouts.Some of those losses were to good(or great) fighters,I don't think it's a stretch to assume others were due to "distractions".
He was great but not for as long as he could have been in my opinion.Anyone else notice he KO'd future lightweight champ Jose Luis Ramirez when JLR was only 19?Talk about a brave manager!

At his best, Ruben Olivares was a tremendous fighter with terrific punching power and underrated boxing skills. I also think that he was a much more versatile than Carlos Zarate. For instance, it is very doubtful that Zarate could be competitive in a bout with Alexis Arguello. Yet an over-the-hill Olivares, a much shorter fighter than Zarate, gave Arguello fits while using his boxing skills.

- Chuck Johnston

Chuck1052 wrote:At his best, Ruben Olivares was a tremendous fighter with terrific punching power and underrated boxing skills. I also think that he was a much more versatile than Carlos Zarate. For instance, it is very doubtful that Zarate could be competitive in a bout with Alexis Arguello. Yet an over-the-hill Olivares, a much shorter fighter than Zarate, gave Arguello fits while using his boxing skills.

- Chuck Johnston

Chuck, I agree 110%.