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THE GREATEST IN-FIGHTING FIGHTER OF ALL-TIME
Posted: 02 Jun 2008, 23:06
by elmersalsa
Here are some boxing greats that were extremely good inside fighters:
1. Dick Tiger
2. Joe Frazier
3. Roberto Duran
4. Riddick Bowe
5. Marvin Hagler
6. Julio Cesar Chavez
7. Ruben Olivares
8. Eder Jofre
9. Wilfred Benitez
10. Meldrick Taylor
11. Alexis Arguello
12. Bernard Hopkins
Of the 12 above, Which one of them all was the best at this lost art?
Re: THE GREATEST IN-FIGHTING FIGHTER OF ALL-TIME
Posted: 02 Jun 2008, 23:10
by Seamus
No Salvador Sanchez ?
Re: THE GREATEST IN-FIGHTING FIGHTER OF ALL-TIME
Posted: 02 Jun 2008, 23:29
by dempseyfire
Jack Dempsey? Henry Armstrong?
I'd rank a prime James Toney as a better in-fighter than Bowe or Taylor.
Never considered in-fighting to be Arguello's forte, although he certainly wasn't bad.
Re: THE GREATEST IN-FIGHTING FIGHTER OF ALL-TIME
Posted: 03 Jun 2008, 00:45
by My2Sense
elmersalsa wrote:Here are some boxing greats that were extremely good inside fighters:
1. Dick Tiger
2. Joe Frazier
3. Roberto Duran
4. Riddick Bowe
5. Marvin Hagler
6. Julio Cesar Chavez
7. Ruben Olivares
8. Eder Jofre
9. Wilfred Benitez
10. Meldrick Taylor
11. Alexis Arguello
12. Bernard Hopkins
Of the 12 above, Which one of them all was the best at this lost art?
The one you put at #1.
Tiger just couldn't be beat in an inside fight. I'd pick Tiger to beat any fighter in his weight class in a slugging match.
Re: THE GREATEST IN-FIGHTING FIGHTER OF ALL-TIME
Posted: 03 Jun 2008, 00:57
by My2Sense
dempseyfire wrote:Jack Dempsey? Henry Armstrong?
I'd rank a prime James Toney as a better in-fighter than Bowe or Taylor.
Never considered in-fighting to be Arguello's forte, although he certainly wasn't bad.
Armstrong should definitely be on that list, and probably Toney too.
I would question putting Arguello on there too. He had great uppercuts and could knock you out at close range, but he also tended to stand straight up and was easy to hit at the same time (see his fights with Marcel, Olivares, Escalera, etc.).
I'd also question putting Olivares on there as well, if for no other reason that the guy who ended his bantamweight reign (Rafael Herrera) TWICE beat him by giving it to him on the inside. In both those fights, Olivares was exposed for throwing wide, looping punches and Herrera threw straighter punches inside of them. Olivares also had trouble with another good infighter/counterpuncher, Chuco Castillo, and chose to box at a distance and pick his punches for much of those fights.
I'm not sure about Jofre either. It seems to me he liked to dictate fights from the outside, although he could fight well on the inside as well. Not so sure about him, as I haven't seen much of him in his prime (like everyone else on the planet, it would seem
).
I think Kid Gavilan might have a place on that list. He may not have been a puncher, but he had superb skill/defense on the inside.
Re: THE GREATEST IN-FIGHTING FIGHTER OF ALL-TIME
Posted: 03 Jun 2008, 12:56
by klompton
Frank Klaus should be in the top ten. He was a terrific in fighter and even wrote a book on the subject.
Re: THE GREATEST IN-FIGHTING FIGHTER OF ALL-TIME
Posted: 03 Jun 2008, 13:19
by granberry
Battling Nelson.
Ad Wolgast.
Billy Papke.
Jack Johnson.
Harry Greb.
Tony Zale.
Re: THE GREATEST IN-FIGHTING FIGHTER OF ALL-TIME
Posted: 03 Jun 2008, 14:19
by Seamus
Dwight Muhammad Qawi deserves a mention.
Re: THE GREATEST IN-FIGHTING FIGHTER OF ALL-TIME
Posted: 03 Jun 2008, 15:44
by My2Sense
Seamus wrote:Dwight Muhammad Qawi deserves a mention.
Good one!
Re: THE GREATEST IN-FIGHTING FIGHTER OF ALL-TIME
Posted: 03 Jun 2008, 15:46
by My2Sense
Jeff Fenech could probably be on here, and maybe even Azumah Nelson as well.
Re: THE GREATEST IN-FIGHTING FIGHTER OF ALL-TIME
Posted: 03 Jun 2008, 16:27
by Smokin'Moe
Marco Antonio Barrera is not the best of all time but hes fun to watch.
was Riddick Bowe really considered that great of an inside fighter?
Re: THE GREATEST IN-FIGHTING FIGHTER OF ALL-TIME
Posted: 03 Jun 2008, 17:03
by ringsider
Smokin'Moe wrote:Marco Antonio Barrera is not the best of all time but hes fun to watch.
was Riddick Bowe really considered that great of an inside fighter?
Yes Riddick Bowe was a GREAT inside fighter for a heavy weight, that is why he gets on the list.
Hagler (as usual around here) is now getting credit for being something he was not, an infighter.....just laughable.
Re: THE GREATEST IN-FIGHTING FIGHTER OF ALL-TIME
Posted: 03 Jun 2008, 17:40
by giacomino
Wilfredo Gomez should be on the list. The dude stayed close and wailed away. Bobby Chacon was also a great infighter who comes to mind from that same era
Re: THE GREATEST IN-FIGHTING FIGHTER OF ALL-TIME
Posted: 03 Jun 2008, 17:42
by granberry
Bennie Briscoe wasn't bad.
Re: THE GREATEST IN-FIGHTING FIGHTER OF ALL-TIME
Posted: 04 Jun 2008, 10:52
by Martin Sosa Cameron
In Argentina:
Pascual Perez
Nicolino Locche
Jorge Fernandez
msc
Re: THE GREATEST IN-FIGHTING FIGHTER OF ALL-TIME
Posted: 04 Jun 2008, 12:44
by kidbazooka1
Julio Cesar Chavez at lightweight was the best I've ever seen at in-fighting.
Re: THE GREATEST IN-FIGHTING FIGHTER OF ALL-TIME
Posted: 04 Jun 2008, 21:52
by HomicideHenry
Though he wasnt an atg at it, Marciano almost never gets any credit for being the great in-fighter that he was...Angello Dundee also thought this of Rocky.
Re: THE GREATEST IN-FIGHTING FIGHTER OF ALL-TIME
Posted: 05 Jun 2008, 07:21
by jimglen
referee Eugene Henderson, the same man who raised Turpin's hand against Ray Robinson among other boxing greats, stated and I quote; "the finest exponent of in-fighting I have seen..."
the Cuban, Nino Valdes.
Re: THE GREATEST IN-FIGHTING FIGHTER OF ALL-TIME
Posted: 05 Jun 2008, 09:42
by BrocktonBlockbuster49
I think a man with the shortest reach in heavyweight history deserves a mention for his tremendous leverage on the inside with those short tree trunk arms.
Btw, Riddick Bowe trains at my gym in brockton
Re: THE GREATEST IN-FIGHTING FIGHTER OF ALL-TIME
Posted: 05 Jun 2008, 10:09
by granberry
Martin Sosa Cameron wrote:In Argentina:
Pascual Perez
Nicolino Locche
Jorge Fernandez
msc
Martin,
Can you tell more about Pascual Perez?
I know next to nothing about him, except that he was a powerful, strong fighter and was considered a top level flyweight champion.
Re: THE GREATEST IN-FIGHTING FIGHTER OF ALL-TIME
Posted: 05 Jun 2008, 11:05
by Martin Sosa Cameron
granberry wrote:Martin Sosa Cameron wrote:In Argentina:
Pascual Perez
Nicolino Locche
Jorge Fernandez
msc
Martin,
Can you tell more about Pascual Perez?
I know next to nothing about him, except that he was a powerful, strong fighter and was considered a top level flyweight champion.
Hi, Granberry!
It is a pleasure; Perez was Olympic Champion, too, in 1948; please, see this pages:
http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/w ... meron.html (Pascual Perez' biography)
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer (record)
http://albordedelring.com.ar/camperez.htm (videos against S. Yaoita and K. Yonekura)
msc
Re: THE GREATEST IN-FIGHTING FIGHTER OF ALL-TIME
Posted: 05 Jun 2008, 11:18
by granberry
Terry D wrote:. . .
Hagler fought well on the inside given his long arms. His beating of Scypion featured some strong inside work from Hagler.
. . .
Hagler fought much of his pathetic fight with fat, old, out of shape lightweight Roberto Duran on the inside and barely won, disgracing himself and the long history of the middleweight championship.
He actually managed to [barely] decision a 135 pounder, working away for 15 rounds.
Hagler was a physically weak 160 pounder---as compared to a Stanley Ketchel, Billy Papke, Frank Klaus, Les Darcy, Harry Greb, Mickey Walker, Tony Zale, etc etc.
Hagler showed his physical inferiority when he fought an old, greatly slowed down Bennie Briscoe at the Philly Spectrum, and spent the entire fight pecking away at long range once he found the old Briscoe was far too strong for him inside.
Re: THE GREATEST IN-FIGHTING FIGHTER OF ALL-TIME
Posted: 05 Jun 2008, 14:54
by granberry
Terry D wrote:granberry wrote:Terry D wrote:. . .
Hagler fought well on the inside given his long arms. His beating of Scypion featured some strong inside work from Hagler.
. . .
Hagler fought much of his pathetic fight with fat, old, out of shape lightweight Roberto Duran on the inside and barely won, disgracing himself and the long history of the middleweight championship.
He actually managed to [barely] decision a 135 pounder, working away for 15 rounds.
Hagler was a physically weak 160 pounder---as compared to a Stanley Ketchel, Billy Papke, Frank Klaus, Les Darcy, Harry Greb, Mickey Walker, Tony Zale, etc etc.
Hagler showed his physical inferiority when he fought an old, greatly slowed down Bennie Briscoe at the Philly Spectrum, and spent the entire fight pecking away at long range once he found the old Briscoe was far too strong for him inside.
Hagler won well. The cards were out of synch with the fight. Duran landing right hands against a southpaw inside is hardly front-page news.
If Hagler was so weak then surely he would not have been able to handle a fat man on the inside. He did so well enough to win the fight.
Also, no matter how slow a guy has become you do not need huge speed of hand and foot to fight inside. It always helps to have physical gifts but a good inside fighter can fight on the inside at an advanced age. No shame in acknowledging Briscoe's ability there and Hagler boxed well on the backfoot that night. You and this forum's other feeble-minded idiot (the one who does not rate Hagler) should put your two brain cells together. You can tell him Hagler defeated Briscoe at range and he can tell you that Hagler was only a strong plodder. Either way you may actually learn to appreciate Marvin as a boxer.
Hagler boxed smart versus Briscoe. Against Duran he trained to counter punch Duran only for Duran to train likewise meaning both men were caught short and Hagler then adjusted as the fight wore-on. Duran was excellent with his right hand so no shame there.
Are you an embittered former female tennis instructor who bought some second hand boxing press clippings and has been banned from the under-12 female tennis sites? You clearly, photos aside, know f*ck all about the basics of the sport of boxing.
Stick to obscure bitterness, it becomes you.
Potty-mouthed Terry D doesn't know what a LIGHTWEIGHT is.
Potty-mouthed Terry D posts the most
bitter posts seen on boxrec since collins disappeared, and then accuses others of his own trait.
Hagler DISGRACED the long history of the middleweight title when he struggled to a win over fat, old LIGHTWEIGHT Roberto Duran.
For shame, Hagler. All the potty-mouthed Terry D's in the world can't defend you.
Re: THE GREATEST IN-FIGHTING FIGHTER OF ALL-TIME
Posted: 05 Jun 2008, 15:45
by granberry
Terry D wrote:granberry wrote:Potty-mouthed Terry D doesn't know what a LIGHTWEIGHT is.
Potty-mouthed Terry D posts the most bitter posts seen on boxrec since collins disappeared, and then accuses others of his own trait.
Hagler DISGRACED the long history of the middleweight title when he struggled to a win over fat, old LIGHTWEIGHT Roberto Duran.
For shame, Hagler. All the potty-mouthed Terry D's in the world can't defend you.
I've given valid points, you've failed to address them. Cry to the mods all you like but allow me to explain something. I like talking to all types of people and I am well-mannered and well-spoken. On the other hand if a person I am speaking to is bitter, obnoxious and incapable of logical thought (all the while speaking down to me) I will politely tell them to get the f*ck out of my face. Address the points properly or not at all, without crying the blues to the mods. Be a man rather than a rather insipid caricature of an E-man.
Potty-mouthed Terry D doesn't know what a LIGHTWEIGHT is.
Potty mouthed Terry D thinks a middleweight like Hagler struggling with a LIGHTWEIGHT in the form of fat, old, out of shape Roberto Duran is impressive.
That's because potty-mouthed Terry D doesn't know what a LIGHTWEIGHT is.
Re: THE GREATEST IN-FIGHTING FIGHTER OF ALL-TIME
Posted: 06 Jun 2008, 07:55
by Counter-puncher
elmersalsa wrote:Here are some boxing greats that were extremely good inside fighters:
1. Dick Tiger
2. Joe Frazier
3. Roberto Duran
4. Riddick Bowe
5. Marvin Hagler
6. Julio Cesar Chavez
7. Ruben Olivares
8. Eder Jofre
9. Wilfred Benitez
10. Meldrick Taylor
11. Alexis Arguello
12. Bernard Hopkins
Of the 12 above, Which one of them all was the best at this lost art?
good thread and post. granberry here's an idea and its a radical one, I'm going to stick with the thread topic as originally posted not get into the 'lightweight' duran.. the same 'lightweight' who hadn't weighed in below 152lbs for 2 years and who hadn't weighed in at 135lbs in about 7 years i think by the time he fought hagler
anyways in no particular order
benitez is a great call, very very under-rated bodypuncher and of course that great ability to slip shots on the insde. i think he showed SRL up for inside skills during the rare periods of their fight that he could exchange on the inside
Arguello- i would say a decent offensive fighter on the inside but not defensively, too easdy to hit. he deserves mention though as, in my opinion, the best tall/long-armed fighter to be effective on the inside (compare his infighting with a hearns or foster), his hooks uppercuts/ uppercuts to the body were all well used by him.
taylor i would say was more pure athleticism than inside skills per se, IMO its easier to look like you've got inside skills when you can throw 10 punches a second.
i think the duran hagler fight was terribly scored and weighted in duran's favour. i also think that duran showed the better pure inside skills that night FWIW
Wilfredo Gomez and Chacon i would both count as great offensive butg not defensive fighters on the inside
valdez and locche and Qawi all good calls too 8)