BoxRec

Ok guys we are all fans of some guy out there.

Who is it and offfer them some IN RING criticism.

For me

Larry Holmes -
In ring complaceny, he would at times appear to take it easy
assuming that he had a fight in the bag. This allowed him to get
caught by guys who he should have beaten.

Holmes would lack the conditioning at times to maintain the intensity
that his style demanded against a top tier opponent.

Holmes was some time to proud in the ring, he could abandon his
boxing game and try to stand toe to toe and excgange.

Worse performance - Spinks 1, Tyson

Floyd Patterson-
We all know about his chin, but yes, he was perhaps not suppose to be
a HW, and his chin was always going to be that of a lower weight classes.

Sometimes Floyd would just not jab, when this could have set up his
combinations and inside work superbly. he would leap in with a hook
to get to the inside.

Floyd needed speed, when he slowed up so did his place on the score
cards. He needed to be in such a shape that he could move and blast.
Sometimes he just got tired and caught.

Worse performance - Ali 1, Johnansen 1

Nice topic. I've gotta get back to work ( :( ), but I'll definitely be back for this thread.

You do that. Im on holidays for the week. Ill hold the fort
while you work...get some milk on your way home.


Its actually hard to get critical of your faves.

Dick Tiger - Probably should've given Joey Archer a title shot, rather than Griffith. Archer had been waiting a while for a title shot, and he also held a win over Tiger already (albeit a highly disputed one). I suppose if you were ever going to make a case for Tiger "ducking" a fighter, you could make one for him ducking Archer (though it would still be somewhat flimsey IMO). Also, Tiger was sometimes slow to take the initiative in some fights, especially against opponents he was generally expected to beat. That resulted in his very embarassing (and inexcusable) loss to Joey Giardello while smack dab in his prime, as well as a couple of other subpar performances.

Kid Gavilan - Should've rematched Danny Womber.

Azumah Nelson - Should've pursued some bigger fights at jr. lightweight in his prime. It was a pretty deep division then with a lot of good opponents (Tony Lopez, JJ Molina, Brian Mitchell, etc.), and he didn't face a good many of them. In fact, the three I listed were left to fight each other. Also, I would've liked to have seen him act with a little more dignity after his losses.

And he shouldn't be coming back to fight Jeff Fenech, damnit!! :x That part almost makes me want to cry.

Mike Tyson:
- Should have stayed away From Don King.
- Should have stuck with his Original Corner Men/Trainers/advisers.
- Should have Trained for every fight like he did in his early days with Cus.
- Like all Fighters, Stay away From Drugs, Alcohol and Women.
- Not Waste his Money and not Allow Don King and Co. To Step all over him on all Money issues (Again, like Point 1, STAY AWAY FROM DONG KING).

Muhammad Ali:
-Should have Stayed Retired after Leon Spinks. (If not Earlier).

Roberto Duran
Was complacent in sparring at times towards the end of his career and allowed the high life, and food, to affect his ability in the ring during the latter stage of his prime. Should've kept his glove high against Buchanan to remove any doubt (or made the cameraman move!). Left it too late to make weight for Hearns, surrounded himself with the wrong people and allowed Leonard to affect him psychologically. Should've retired after Barkley and been more schrewd with his business acumen.

Greg Page
Should've trained and came in every fight under 225.
Should've stayed with Butch Lewis
Should've learned to utilize infighting skills.

Roberto Duran: Should have taken better care of himself after beating Sugar Ray Leonard. Should have retired after the Iran Barkley fight, and not waste his time fighting tomato cans at the end of his career. Some tomato cans that could not carry his jockstrap beat him when he was in his late 30s and early 40s....That is a shame.

Muhammad Ali...Should have never come back after he retired against Leon Spinks...Of matter of fact, he should have retired after the "Thrilla in Manila" wiht the great Joe Frazier. Almost never threw a punch to the body. Always holding his opponentes necks, which is ILEGAL IN BOXING. Was a terrible inside fighter.

Sugar Ray Leonard: Should have give Duran, Benitez or Hearns a rematch right away after beating them to see who really was the better fighter. Should have had more durability. His Prime was too short. Sometimes seemed confused in fights when the going got tough, but solved the puzzles most of the times. Should have fought more fights, especially in the mid-80s decade. His legacy would have been more legit. Beneficiary of Too many estipulations and demands for a fighter never seen.

elmer -You are supposed to criticize your favorite fighter. So you don't need to say bad things about Ali and Leonard for the umpteenth time.

Julio Cesar Chavez could have been considered arguably the greatest fighter who ever lived if he would not developed an inflated and insufferable ego, a lax attitude to training, and an over reliance on his ability to take a punch. The bad habits escalated immediately after the Taylor fight. All night parties with Chavez putting away a Keg of beer on his own became common place. His subtle but highly efficent defense was abandoned as was his remarkable ability to cut off the ring.
Chasing someone around the ring and eating their punches to land one became his fighting style of choice. I have most of his fights since Rosario and the change is evident.
Too bad. For a while there 100-0 seemed quite possible.

Evander Holyfield - Should have retired after beating Tyson.

Roy Jones Junior (I know he is still active) - Should not have fought again after winning the heavyweight belt, but he did, so he should have quit after the first Tarver fight. On top of that, he should have stayed at supermiddleweight where he would have ruled uncontested (for all the Calzaghe fans). Also should let his hands go more and not pot shot so much. I know at 154, 160, and 168 he could pot shot and KO people, but he carried this up to LHW and although he has KO'ed guys at LHW, he just didn't put them away like he did at the other weights.

Bruce Seldon - Should have just given Tyson the belt without getting in the ring and making a mockery of what a heavyweight champion is. That was a freakin' joke. He got stopped by the air or Tysons punches or just fear itself.

Ambling Alp wrote:elmer -You are supposed to criticize your favorite fighter. So you don't need to say bad things about Ali and Leonard for the umpteenth time.

Sorry, Alp, Ali and Leonard TRULY were 2 of my 10 top favorites. That is why I am critizicing them...I even critiziced Duran, who is my tops favorite.

anyone - apart from bruce seldon and his mum - who says their fave fighter is bruce seldon needs locking up.

harrygreb wrote:anyone - apart from bruce seldon and his mum - who says their fave fighter is bruce seldon needs locking up.

did i say he was my favorite? no, i don't recall saying that....EVER, even though the link says 'criticise your favourite fighter.' i liked him as a fighter when he would work his jab and before bowe made him look like shit or he sat down out of fear of tyson. he did hold a piece of the heavyweight title at one time and would beat a few of the former champions in head to head matchups............although i wouldn't say very many. plus, you don't ever hear anything bad about bruce seldon (drugs, rape, crime in general).

zslayton wrote:

harrygreb wrote:anyone - apart from bruce seldon and his mum - who says their fave fighter is bruce seldon needs locking up.

did i say he was my favorite? no, i don't recall saying that....EVER, even though the link says 'criticise your favourite fighter.' i liked him as a fighter when he would work his jab and before bowe made him look like shit or he sat down out of fear of tyson. he did hold a piece of the heavyweight title at one time and would beat a few of the former champions in head to head matchups............although i wouldn't say very many. plus, you don't ever hear anything bad about bruce seldon (drugs, rape, crime in general).

Not quite true mate...

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference ... index.html

elmersalsa wrote:

Ambling Alp wrote:elmer -You are supposed to criticize your favorite fighter. So you don't need to say bad things about Ali and Leonard for the umpteenth time.

Sorry, Alp, Ali and Leonard TRULY were 2 of my 10 top favorites. That is why I am critizicing them...I even critiziced Duran, who is my tops favorite.

Really? Is that why you constantly cricitize Ali and Leonard? I don't believe you at all.

Leonard is one of your favorites? You once said " he wasn't a real fighter".
You were the only person who voted in the Boxrec Hall of Fame when Leonard was first eligible that didn't vote for him. You rip him constantly.

You started a thread listing 5 fighters who would surely beat Ali every time. In several past threads you have also have criticized his opponents, his style and other things. What a fan.

You even went as far as saying that you thought Norton won their 2nd fight, before you saw the fight.

You didn't really criticize Duran, you really just made excuses for him.

You don't like them any more than I like Duran. The difference is that I won't say that I like Duran when I don't.

You only say that you are a fan of Ali and Leonard because it will make it seem like you have more credibility when you rip them. I see right through it and I'm sure others do as well.

Ambling Alp wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

Ambling Alp wrote:elmer -You are supposed to criticize your favorite fighter. So you don't need to say bad things about Ali and Leonard for the umpteenth time.

Sorry, Alp, Ali and Leonard TRULY were 2 of my 10 top favorites. That is why I am critizicing them...I even critiziced Duran, who is my tops favorite.

Really? Is that why you constantly cricitize Ali and Leonard? I don't believe you at all.

Leonard is one of your favorites? You once said " he wasn't a real fighter".
You were the only person who voted in the Boxrec Hall of Fame when Leonard was first eligible that didn't vote for him. You rip him constantly.

You started a thread listing 5 fighters who would surely beat Ali every time. In several past threads you have also have criticized his opponents, his style and other things. What a fan.

You even went as far as saying that you thought Norton won their 2nd fight, before you saw the fight.

You didn't really criticize Duran, you really just made excuses for him.

You don't like them any more than I like Duran. The difference is that I won't say that I like Duran when I don't.

You only say that you are a fan of Ali and Leonard because it will make it seem like you have more credibility when you rip them. I see right through it and I'm sure others do as well.

I would like to see Elmer named five fighters that would surely have beaten Duran. How about it Elmer, can you come up with that list?

Ambling Alp wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

Ambling Alp wrote:elmer -You are supposed to criticize your favorite fighter. So you don't need to say bad things about Ali and Leonard for the umpteenth time.

Sorry, Alp, Ali and Leonard TRULY were 2 of my 10 top favorites. That is why I am critizicing them...I even critiziced Duran, who is my tops favorite.

Really? Is that why you constantly cricitize Ali and Leonard? I don't believe you at all.

Leonard is one of your favorites? You once said " he wasn't a real fighter".
You were the only person who voted in the Boxrec Hall of Fame when Leonard was first eligible that didn't vote for him. You rip him constantly.

You started a thread listing 5 fighters who would surely beat Ali every time. In several past threads you have also have criticized his opponents, his style and other things. What a fan.

You even went as far as saying that you thought Norton won their 2nd fight, before you saw the fight.

You didn't really criticize Duran, you really just made excuses for him.

You don't like them any more than I like Duran. The difference is that I won't say that I like Duran when I don't.

You only say that you are a fan of Ali and Leonard because it will make it seem like you have more credibility when you rip them. I see right through it and I'm sure others do as well.

first, what do you know about my feelings of Ali and Leonard. I talked bad about them, but that does not mean that I don't like them. Ali, Duran and Leonard were my favorite fighters. Other favorites were Bobby Chacon, Julio Cesar Chavez and James Toney. Even Mike Tyson, was my favorite BEFORE Don King came into his side.

So what if I critiziced Ali's style? It is the TRUTH that he lost to Ken Norton 3 times. I was not mad at Ali. I was mad at the BOXING INDUSTRY AND PROMOTERS. There was not TRUE SPORTSMANSHIP when he was around. He even LOST TO JIMMY YOUNG and they gave him the fight.

I am supposed to defend Ali's "victory" against Young when he CLEARLY LOST?....THAT IS STUPID.

I am supposed to defend Leonard's "draw" against Hearns, when Tommy CLEARLY WON?...that is STUPID too.

Real fighters give rematches...I never seen Leonard did that...did you?

And as for the Norton second fight, it seemed that you did not read it well. I said " I am not surprised if Norton won the second fight" that is what I said. And IT DID NOT SURPRISED ME...IT WAS A ROBBERY. NORTON WON THE 3 FIGHTS.

Borinken, NOBODY IS INVINCIBLE. Everybody has lost. I have said before that guys like Pernell Whitaker, or Carlos Ortiz could beat Duran any given night or viceversa. Now, in a 5-fight series, I DON'T KNOW WHO WOULD COME ON TOP. But I have NEVER said that Duran was INVINCIBLE....NEVER.

The great Roberto Duran was an INCREDIBLE FIGHTER, the greatest fighter I HAVE EVER SEEN, PERIOD. I give him the benefit of the doubt in the "No Mas" fight because he won the first fight in extraordinary fashion against a superb figthter like Leonard at his very best.

elmersalsa wrote:Everybody has lost.

Well, Marciano never did.

Elmer it seems to be your "token" giving in. The Third fight JOE FRAZIER gave it to Norton by 1 round.

Tell me how in this world that could be considered a robbery? When Joe was Ken's best friend

Once again you said that Leonard isn't a real fighter. "Real fighters give rematches...I never seen Leonard did that...did you? "

You really expect people to believe it when you say a guy isn't a real fighter, but yet he is one of your favorite fighters? Come on.

You don't like Ali's style, thought it was necessary to start a ridiculaus thread about 5 guys who would surely beat him, but he is one of your favorite fighters? Come on.

You make every excuse in the book for Duran and you bend over backwards to rip Ali and Leonard. Ok I can play that game.

Roberto "Forever a Lightweight" Duran is one of my favorite fighters.
I like he never gave Ken Buchanan a rematch after his controversial win.
I like how he gave fought dirty against Davey Moore.
I like how he never gave Moore a rematch.
I like how he never gave Iran Barkley a rematch after a fight that could have gone either way.
I like how he conveniently skipped a fight with Cervantes at Jr welterweight when moving from lightweight fulltime (he fought several times above 140 as a lighthweight champion.) to welterweight.
I like how he made commnents about he was going to send Ray Lampkin to the morgue.
I like how he was such a jerk in interviews before he fought Leonard.
I like how he never gave Leonard any credit after their first fight. (Though Leonard gave him credit)
I like how he quit like a baby against Leonard in the 2nd fight, ripping off the fans who paid to watch the fight and who paid to watch it on Closed Circuit TV.
I like how he wouldn't give Leonard any credit after their 2nd fight.
I like how made made excuses for losing to Leonard. (Leonard didn't make excuses when he lost.)

Most of all, I like how he has been a pathetic excuse for a human being.

elmersalsa wrote:It is the TRUTH that he lost to Ken Norton 3 times.

Nonsense.

raylawpc wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:Everybody has lost.

Well, Marciano never did.

That's because the state of Marciano's opposition was garbage compared to who Duran fought.

I Feel Fine wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:It is the TRUTH that he lost to Ken Norton 3 times.

Nonsense.

raylawpc wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:Everybody has lost.

Well, Marciano never did.

That's because the state of Marciano's opposition was garbage compared to who Duran fought.

Really. Who would you have had Marciano fight that would have beaten him in the era from 1948 to 1956? The fact is, you made the blanket statement that "everybody has lost." Marciano didn't.

I didn't make the statement. But Marciano didn't fight in four different decades, and didn't fight an equivalent of a prime Leonard or prime Hearns or a Benitez or a Hagler; so its frivolous to compare him to Duran.