BoxRec

http://britishboxing.wordpress.com/2008 ... of-pavlik/

Better staying at Light Middle, while I only think he'd go to the Euro at best, he'd have a better chance at a title since theres fighters like 38 year old Phillips and Mora as champs.

If that was everyone's attitude, there would be no contenders.

Jamie has wanted to move up - in class (not weight) - for ages.

His first British title fight, he looked a level above British level. Absolutely dominated Michael Jones at late notice. Speed, variety, power, great timing: what a performance that was. But he's been fighting the same guys again and again. That allows ppl like Jones and Facey to improve their game against Jamie. Moore obviously had to be given a next level opponent to lift his game and it's happened - 5 years after the 1st Jones fight.

Konecny is barely Euro level, and he nearly beat Dzinziruk. Alcine isn't proper world class. He's just a strong guy that moves in straight lines, flurries, then covers up. Moore's next opponent - Baysangurov - is probably better than all the 154-lb champs.

Can't be easy for Mooresy to make 154-pounds. Maybe he'd feel stronger at 160.

Pavlik is dangerous as he's a natural super middleweight with huge power. Ultimately, we don't know what's happening with the WBC 154-lb title. If Mora is forced into an immediate rematch with Forrest, the WBC crown will get vacated. Sergio Martinez will fight for the vacant crown most likely. If Moore has beaten Baysangurov by then, he could well get a shot.

However, if the WBC won't strip Mora, and More fights Forrest, Mosley, DLH or whatever cash in fight, the belt will get held up forever and that would be bad for Moore.


EDIT - I said about JM wanting to "move up for ages" - I meant in class, not move up to middleweight.

Although Jamie Moore would put up a better effort than Gary Lockett, he still wouldnt stand a chance against Pavlik.....too big and powerful. I think Jamie could beat Mora at LM though

Moore is doing this in search of work and a payday.
Unfortunately his career has stagnated, this is a job the fella has bills to pay

Such a shame. I genuinely believe Jamie could win multiple world titles at 154. He's way better than Mora and Phillips. Alcine would be a good fight.

Then we'll agree to disagree I guess.

154 is devoid of established talent right now, possibly the worst of all divisions from 130 upwards. Proof being that a severely weight drained Mora beat Forrest, yet he should've lost to Elvin Ayala at a more comfortable weight for him at 160. Phillips, who's best years have long gone, beat Spinks (I only caught the last 4 rounds and thought Spinks won them though). Alcine is still untested, but Santos will provide that test in his next fight. Joel Julio isn't as good as everyone thought and Oscar looked awful against Forbes and is reitring at the end of the year.

Angulo and Kirkland are the only hot prospects in the division, and are probably about a year or 18 months away from title shots, so the division will be in transition until the likes of Cotto, Cintron and Williams move up and on that basis I think Jamie can clear up in that time.

Red Medicine wrote:Maybe he should start out by trying to last more than 3 rounds against Ossie Duran.

maybe you should start doing some research and find that the stoppage was caused by injury.

I think only the Dixon fight was a proper defeat for Jamie really?! Wasnt that only his 10th fight or something too, yet Dixon had 25+ wins and only 2 or 3 defeats.

Jamie fights baysangurov, who could also win a world title at LMW. Infact the winner of that fight will (or could) probably get a world title shot.

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:Then we'll agree to disagree I guess.

154 is devoid of established talent right now, possibly the worst of all divisions from 130 upwards. Proof being that a severely weight drained Mora beat Forrest, yet he should've lost to Elvin Ayala at a more comfortable weight for him at 160. Phillips, who's best years have long gone, beat Spinks (I only caught the last 4 rounds and thought Spinks won them though). Alcine is still untested, but Santos will provide that test in his next fight. Joel Julio isn't as good as everyone thought and Oscar looked awful against Forbes and is reitring at the end of the year.

Angulo and Kirkland are the only hot prospects in the division, and are probably about a year or 18 months away from title shots, so the division will be in transition until the likes of Cotto, Cintron and Williams move up and on that basis I think Jamie can clear up in that time.

It has become terrible, but there is hope with Baysangurov, Martinez, Moore, Kirkland, Angulo, Joe Greene.

The titles have become a joke sadly. Mora had to sign a rematch clause to get the Forrest fight. So they'll have a rematch without even a title on the line. I think the WBC will get vacated, Martinez will beat some bum to win it, and HOPEFULLY, we will see Martinez come over here and fight Moore, on Sky Sports (if Moore's beaten the European champ).

I disagree with those posters who say that Moore is only European class. If he'd been given fights for a progressive learning curve, he would likely be a world title holder by now (IMO). The current Euro champ - Baysangurov - has world class potential so Moore can silence a lot of doubters by beating him in Sept.

(World class or not, this will be an amazing fight.)

I'm not sure how Moore-Pavlik could happen. It could just be a bit of rumour, who knows. I'd think he'd need to win a 154-pound belt. Then Pavlik/Arum may be interested, i.e. get a smaller, world class name. Or maybe if Moore beats Baysangurov, gets a good WBC rating, he can trade is his 154-pound ranking for a 160-pound one, ala David Haye (at cruiser/heavy).

teddy007 wrote:

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:Then we'll agree to disagree I guess.

154 is devoid of established talent right now, possibly the worst of all divisions from 130 upwards. Proof being that a severely weight drained Mora beat Forrest, yet he should've lost to Elvin Ayala at a more comfortable weight for him at 160. Phillips, who's best years have long gone, beat Spinks (I only caught the last 4 rounds and thought Spinks won them though). Alcine is still untested, but Santos will provide that test in his next fight. Joel Julio isn't as good as everyone thought and Oscar looked awful against Forbes and is reitring at the end of the year.

Angulo and Kirkland are the only hot prospects in the division, and are probably about a year or 18 months away from title shots, so the division will be in transition until the likes of Cotto, Cintron and Williams move up and on that basis I think Jamie can clear up in that time.

Somebody throw a bucket of cold water over this guy.

Disagree all you want, but at least put in some coherent argument to back your views up

Moore has talent alright but has been handled as badly as anyone i can think of in recent years*


"cleaning up" at 154? challenging Pavlik at 160?

Ummmmmmm, get your head out of your insular British boxing arse and look at who Moore has beat

Noone

29 years old, doesn't sell tickets, hasn't beaten anyone and badly managed......

Phew, how can Pavlik resist that?








*queue his boorish manager to come on here and have a go at me again

[quote="Emerson Poncey Name Ghent"Oscar looked awful against Forbes and is reitring at the end of the year.

[/quote]

That, sir, is bollocks. OK he didnt look like 1980 Sugar Ray, but he looked sharp and coasted to an easy decision against a tough and tricky operator.


Moore hasnt been anywhere near a fighter of Forbes class

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:Such a shame. I genuinely believe Jamie could win multiple world titles at 154. He's way better than Mora and Phillips. Alcine would be a good fight.

I totally agree. Think a lot of Moore, good fighter and terrific bloke, he should aim for a title at light middle and hold onto the belt for a few defences. That is well within his grasp, he is good enough.

I think Pavlik would be career suicide.

Red Medicine wrote:Maybe he should start out by trying to last more than 3 rounds against Ossie Duran.

He was badly injured pal, he did well to even carry on. Prick.

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:Moore has talent alright but has been handled as badly as anyone i can think of in recent years*


"cleaning up" at 154? challenging Pavlik at 160?

Ummmmmmm, get your head out of your insular British boxing arse and look at who Moore has beat

Noone

29 years old, doesn't sell tickets, hasn't beaten anyone and badly managed......

Phew, how can Pavlik resist that?

*queue his boorish manager to come on here and have a go at me again

Moore has been prevented from getting international comp. But it certainly wasn't his manager or promoter to my knowledge. There are a few old articles online that will give you something of a clue re opponents like Martinez and Vuma and what stopped these fights from happening.

I think GBP are interested in Moore, after seeing him knock out a tough Mexican that they brought over for the Hatton-Lazcano undercard. That can get things moving.

Pavlik doesn't have too many ppl to fight while he's middleweight champ. If someone steps forward that's exciting and marketable, it can happen. Pavlik wants to enjoy his titles after being forced into that catchweight rematch with Taylor, and while he can make 160. His 1st challenger was Lockett and the next - Rubio - comes in with little chance either. Arum tried to manufacture Irish hopes Lee and Duddy, but they got carved up. What if Moore wins a fight of the year type battle vs the young, touted Baysangurov? He'd be more qualified than Lockett, Rubio, Duddy and Lee, for sure.

Its a shame shachew powell dropped his arse and didnt fight moore, that couldve gotten him exposure. Also, Lujan has gone and picked up a few wins since losing to Moore, Jamie beat him just as well as Dzinziruk <sp> did and aswel as Margarito was doing until his ear fell off.

teddy007 wrote:
Somebody throw a bucket of cold water over this guy.

Put together an argument for debate, or drink the water.

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:[quote="Emerson Poncey Name Ghent"Oscar looked awful against Forbes and is reitring at the end of the year.

That, sir, is bollocks. OK he didnt look like 1980 Sugar Ray, but he looked sharp and coasted to an easy decision against a tough and tricky operator.


Moore hasnt been anywhere near a fighter of Forbes class[/quote]

Looking at Oscar after the fight, from memory I've never seen him looked so marked. And from a fighter with little power at 154 that concerned me. He looked slow at times and although Oscar probably won every round in virtually each one Forbes ran him close. The Oscar of 24, hell even 13 months ago, would've stopped him based upon volume if not power.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not an Oscar hater. He's possibly my favourite fighter of the last 20 years. I just think he's aged quite badly since May 2007. Or he just wasn't up for the fight.

Hmm, no real basis then. Just gut feel without basing on any fact.

teddy007 wrote:"Moore would never win multiple world titles....he's not that good. I could see him winning a version of the title but very quickly beaten. He is european class at very best."

I don't like it when ppl say "he can't" because "I haven't seen him do it".

Is there no such thing as potential?

teddy007 wrote:

Autobarn wrote:I don't like it when ppl say "he can't" because "I haven't seen him do it".

Is there no such thing as potential?

What do you mean?

Take Khan for example, he is all potential, he hasn't fought any genuine world class fighters really.
So if you were discussing his merits you may say his chin won't stand up at that level because of knockdowns against the light punching super-feather Limond or in the amateurs against Watson
The flip side is he has world class skills as shown in his amateur grounding, showing improvement in the pro's and showed real heart and grit to finish the job against the Scotsman.
Now all this of course is conjecture as Amir has not stepped up yet, this is the debate about his potential
You may not rate a fighter but to say he is shit because he is a c**t is no basis for debate

teddy007 wrote:

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:Hmm, no real basis then. Just gut feel without basing on any fact.

teddy007 wrote:"Moore would never win multiple world titles....he's not that good. I could see him winning a version of the title but very quickly beaten. He is european class at very best."

Wheres your facts then? The fact of the matter is he has beaten not one sinlge world class fighter, is that fact enough?

Neither has a lot of world champions until one point in their careers when they fight for the title.

Jamie has given no proof, at least to me and others on this board, that he can't win world titles.

Until he does, and the 154 division remains devoid of genuine world class talent/form, he stands as good a chance as any provided Steve Wood can get him the chances he deserves after his grafting on the domestic scene.

I don't see any reason why Moore can't pick up a world title at LM. Whilst he'd be the underdog, i'd give him a real chance in with Mora or Phillips.

I think he's far more likely to suceed at LM, rather than middleweight though... Pavlik and Abraham are both much bigger, and better than the title holders at LM.

Wales, has there been anything from GBP since they watched Macklin v Moore on DVD? Would be great if they could link up with VIP to give him a US fight.

teddy007 wrote:Yes i hear what your saying but moore brings f*ck all to the table when negotiating for a world title shot. He is avoided because he's tough and quite durable. I would be surprised if he ever got a shot a genuine world title. The scenario i see is that he will end up getting beat by someone he should of and would of beaten had he been motivated.

I think he'll nick the Euro belt (which he can do with his ability) and give the performance of his life in taking a world title. With that would come a few quid, bigger name opponents and after he finishes he'll have more scope to do other things - commentating, training etc.

It's all gravy :)