BoxRec

1) Muhammad Ali- Unparalleled hand ,foot speed, and heart ... SI measured his hand speed and said it was faster than Sugar Ray Robinson who was fifty or so pounds lighter...

2) George Foreman- One of the hardest punchers in history...Literally lifted Joe Frazier off his feet and winning the heavyweight title at 45 isn't too shabby.

3) Joe Frazier- Only boxer to beat Ali in his prime...Ali was 29 when he lost the fight in the Garden and was coming off wins against Quarry and Bonavena...He was as close to his prime as he ever was going to be.

4) Roberto Duran- Hands of Stone.A fight is with him was like a street fight.

5) Sugar Ray Leonard- In his prime he beat the best boxers of his generation-Benitez ,Papa Mayweather, Tommy Hearns, Roberto Duran and Marvelous Marvin Hagler

6) Marvelous Marvin Hagler- Great fighter. Almost killed John The Beast Mugabi and Tommy Hearns

7) Larry Holmes-Great technical fighter...Great heart...One of the most beautiful jabs in the business

8 ) Evander Holyfield- Great heart... Took apart Mike Tyson

9) Tommy Hearns- Just a big, big middleweight who could take your head off

10a) Lenox Lewsis-Has there ever been a more cerebral fighter

10b) Mike Tyson- More for what he could have been than for what he was...

What do you think?

PEACE

40 years takes us back to 1968...

You've compiled a list of top fighter, many who might make my top 10 but have you considered...

Bob Foster
Michael Spinks
Carlos Monzon
Nino Benvenuti
Dick Tiger
Emile Griffith
Jose Napoles
Pernell Whittaker
Julio Chavez
Salvador Sanchez
Eusebio Pedroza
Azumah Nelson
Wilfredo Gomez
Jeff Fenech

Just to name a few...

Ezzard wrote:40 years takes us back to 1968...

You've compiled a list of top fighter, many who might make my top 10 but have you considered...

Bob Foster
Michael Spinks
Carlos Monzon
Nino Benvenuti
Dick Tiger
Emile Griffith
Jose Napoles
Pernell Whittaker
Julio Chavez
Salvador Sanchez
Eusebio Pedroza
Azumah Nelson
Wilfredo Gomez
Jeff Fenech

Just to name a few...

Thank you... My list wasn't meant to be all inclusive ...They were my Top Ten...It was biased by the fact those boxers were the most fun to watch....Ali and Leonard were great boxers and entertainers...I think that is why some of the purists didn't always like them...Boxing needs the casual fan to survive...That's why boxers like DLH and PBF are so important to the sport...And those two cats could fight...

Agreed DLH, Mayweather, Hopkins, Jones, Kosta, Pac, Berrera etc should be in the debate too

Ezzard wrote:Agreed DLH, Mayweather, Hopkins, Jones, Kosta, Pac, Berrera etc should be in the debate too

It's funny...The casual fan loves an Ali, a Golden Boy, or Pretty Boy but some hard core fans hate them... I think they hate them to be contrary...An Ali, a Leoanrd, o DelaHoya lived up to the hype...

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Roberto Duran
3. Ray Leonard
4. Carlos Monzon
5. Marvin Hagler
6. Michael Spinks
7. Pernell Whitaker
8. Roy Jones, Jr.
9. Alexis Arguello
10. Tommy Hearns

Big Bad John wrote:1. Muhammad Ali
2. Roberto Duran
3. Ray Leonard
4. Carlos Monzon
5. Marvin Hagler
6. Michael Spinks
7. Pernell Whitaker
8. Roy Jones, Jr.
9. Alexis Arguello
10. Tommy Hearns

Excellent list

Thanks, although at this point, I'd probably find a place for Floyd Mayweather, Jr. Maybe as high as #8, but still possibly below Hearns. In fact, I'm going to change the list around a little bit, and make it go to 20:

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Roberto Duran
3. Carlos Monzon
4. Ray Leonard
5. Marvin Hagler
6. Floyd Mayweather, Jr.
7. Pernell Whitaker
8. Roy Jones, Jr.
9. Michael Spinks
10. Bernard Hopkins
11. Alexis Arguello
12. Jose Napoles
13. Evander Holyfield
13. Tommy Hearns
14. Larry Holmes
15. Salvador Sanchez
16. Julio Cesar Chavez
17. Lennox Lewis
18. Mike Tyson
19. Chang Jung Koo
20. Eusebio Pedroza

Honorable Mention: George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Oscar de la Hoya, James Toney, Wilfredo Benitez, Marco Antonio Barrera, Manny Pacquiao, Naseem Hamed, Ruben Olivares, Jeff Fenech, Ricardo Lopez

Big Bad John wrote:Thanks, although at this point, I'd probably find a place for Floyd Mayweather, Jr. Maybe as high as #8, but still possibly below Hearns. In fact, I'm going to change the list around a little bit, and make it go to 20:

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Roberto Duran
3. Carlos Monzon
4. Ray Leonard
5. Marvin Hagler
6. Floyd Mayweather, Jr.
7. Pernell Whitaker
8. Roy Jones, Jr.
9. Michael Spinks
10. Bernard Hopkins
11. Alexis Arguello
12. Jose Napoles
13. Evander Holyfield
13. Tommy Hearns
14. Larry Holmes
15. Salvador Sanchez
16. Julio Cesar Chavez
17. Lennox Lewis
18. Mike Tyson
19. Chang Jung Koo
20. Eusebio Pedroza

Honorable Mention: George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Oscar de la Hoya, James Toney, Wilfredo Benitez, Marco Antonio Barrera, Manny Pacquiao, Naseem Hamed, Ruben Olivares, Jeff Fenech, Ricardo Lopez

I like your list...Except Big George could use a bit more love.

Foreman? He had a few exciting fights, but the fighters he beat weren't exactly a Murderer's Row:

• Joe Frazier I: Years past his prime and 10 pounds overweight
• Norton: Very good win, but aside from Ali, who did Norton beat?
• Lyle: Really, this win was only good because of the timing and of course, because Foreman got off the canvas twice. Lyle was perenially in the bottom half of the top 10, but he'd given Ali a little trouble in an awful fight and stopped Shavers.
• Frazier II: He was coming off a fight that nearly killed him.
• Moorer: Beating Moorer is no great feat. It was only considered a good win because Foreman was so old.

He really doesn't compare to the other fighters on the list. I personally think that his second career is badly, badly overrated.

Big Bad John wrote:Foreman? He had a few exciting fights, but the fighters he beat weren't exactly a Murderer's Row:

• Joe Frazier I: Years past his prime and 10 pounds overweight
• Norton: Very good win, but aside from Ali, who did Norton beat?
• Lyle: Really, this win was only good because of the timing and of course, because Foreman got off the canvas twice. Lyle was perenially in the bottom half of the top 10, but he'd given Ali a little trouble in an awful fight and stopped Shavers.
• Frazier II: He was coming off a fight that nearly killed him.
• Moorer: Beating Moorer is no great feat. It was only considered a good win because Foreman was so old.

He really doesn't compare to the other fighters on the list. I personally think that his second career is badly, badly overrated.

Yeah but you can't fault Foreman because the competition of his era was weak...IMHO, he would have beat every boxer Ali beat but he couldn't beat Ali...He would have destroyed Liston...He was a bigger Liston...I think if he fought in Holmes' or Tyson's era he would have the same success...The only fighters of the past forty years beside Ali that would give Foreman trouble is Holy, Holmes, and Lenox Lewis...

Big Bad John wrote:Thanks, although at this point, I'd probably find a place for Floyd Mayweather, Jr. Maybe as high as #8, but still possibly below Hearns. In fact, I'm going to change the list around a little bit, and make it go to 20:

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Roberto Duran
3. Carlos Monzon
4. Ray Leonard
5. Marvin Hagler
6. Floyd Mayweather, Jr.
7. Pernell Whitaker
8. Roy Jones, Jr.
9. Michael Spinks
10. Bernard Hopkins
11. Alexis Arguello
12. Jose Napoles
13. Evander Holyfield
13. Tommy Hearns
14. Larry Holmes
15. Salvador Sanchez
16. Julio Cesar Chavez
17. Lennox Lewis
18. Mike Tyson
19. Chang Jung Koo
20. Eusebio Pedroza

Honorable Mention: George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Oscar de la Hoya, James Toney, Wilfredo Benitez, Marco Antonio Barrera, Manny Pacquiao, Naseem Hamed, Ruben Olivares, Jeff Fenech, Ricardo Lopez

Chang Jung Koo does not belong anywhere close on that list Decagon.

Wilfredo Gomez, Ruben Olivares, Wilfredo Benitez, DLH, Marco Barrera, Erik Morales, Ricardo Lopez, James Toney, Felix Trinidad, Nassem Hammed, Wilfredo Vazquez, George Foreman, Danny Lopez, Jeff Fenech, Azuma Nelson, Carlos Zarate, Humberto Gonzalez hell even Hector Camacho are better than him. Esteban De Jesus, Edwin Rosario, and the list goes on and on…

dr_devious wrote:

Big Bad John wrote:1. Muhammad Ali
2. Roberto Duran
3. Ray Leonard
4. Carlos Monzon
5. Marvin Hagler
6. Michael Spinks
7. Pernell Whitaker
8. Roy Jones, Jr.
9. Alexis Arguello
10. Tommy Hearns

Excellent list

ditto

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:Yeah but you can't fault Foreman because the competition of his era was weak...

That is just stupid and wrong. He fought in a great era - two, really - but he simply didn't get in the ring with the best possible competition. In the 1970s, he avoided Earnie Shavers, Larry Holmes and Jerry Quarry. In the 1990s, he avoided pretty much everyone.

You go on to argue that he could have beaten everyone Ali beat, which is laughable. Ali twice beat Jerry Quarry, and Foreman repeatedly said that he didn't want to fight Quarry under any circumstances. And let's not forget that Jimmy Young beat George Foreman, while a Parkinson's-ridden Ali managed a close, perhaps controversial, decision over him. You simply don't have a good understanding of boxing in general.

Big Bad John wrote:

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:Yeah but you can't fault Foreman because the competition of his era was weak...

That is just stupid and wrong. He fought in a great era - two, really - but he simply didn't get in the ring with the best possible competition. In the 1970s, he avoided Earnie Shavers, Larry Holmes and Jerry Quarry. In the 1990s, he avoided pretty much everyone.

You go on to argue that he could have beaten everyone Ali beat, which is laughable. Ali twice beat Jerry Quarry, and Foreman repeatedly said that he didn't want to fight Quarry under any circumstances. And let's not forget that Jimmy Young beat George Foreman, while a Parkinson's-ridden Ali managed a close, perhaps controversial, decision over him. You simply don't have a good understanding of boxing in general.

He only destroyed Joe Frazier and Ken Norton, the only two boxers to beat Ali when he was at or near his prime...Yes, he lost to Jimmy Young but he was an emotional wreck after his loss to Ali... I remember him fighting some decent heavyweights in the 90's including one heavyweight champion he knocked out when he was forty five...

If he ducked Quarry I don't know why...He would have beat him...

If I didn't box myself as a young man and have a relative who is listed in the boxers section on this site (which I can prove but I prefer not to because I don't want to divulge my identidty on the internet) I would take umbrage at your remark that I am "stupid" and "lack a good understanding of boxing in general."

There's no reason to disrespect or insult somebody who has been civil just because he or she disagrees with you...

PEACE

My top 10 of the last 40 years would be:

1. Roberto Duran: Not only my favorite fighter, but the best fighter that I have ever seen

2. Muhammad Ali: Another favorite of mine....Great fighter, but he had too much leeway

3. Carlos Monzon: The greatest middleweight ever in my view.

4. Sugar Ray Leonard: Another one of my favorites. Great fighter that could adapt and improvise through the course of the fight.

5. Pernell Whitaker: The best fighter of the 90s era

6. Marvin Hagler: Next to Monzon, the greatest middleweight ever.

7. Julio Cesar Chavez: Another favorite of mine. Late 80s, early 90s, a perfect fighting machine.

8. Alexis Arguello: "The Explosive Thin Man" was as good as it gets. People FORGET that he never lost his title belts and went 19 straight wins in title bouts.

9. Evander Holyfield: Four-time heavyweight champion of the world. The greatest cruiserweight of all-time. Only fighter to be undisputed champion at cruiser and at heavy.

10. Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles: One of the true great welterweights. Only lost 3 out of 15 title bouts and was twice world welterweight champion.

There were other great ones that fought in this 40 year span, but were not in their primes when I took this consideration. Great fighters like Emile Griffith and Eder Jofre fought in this time frame, but by 1968, they were not the same fighters or were past their primes.

Big Bad John wrote:Foreman? He had a few exciting fights, but the fighters he beat weren't exactly a Murderer's Row:

• Joe Frazier I: Years past his prime and 10 pounds overweight
• Norton: Very good win, but aside from Ali, who did Norton beat?
• Lyle: Really, this win was only good because of the timing and of course, because Foreman got off the canvas twice. Lyle was perenially in the bottom half of the top 10, but he'd given Ali a little trouble in an awful fight and stopped Shavers.
• Frazier II: He was coming off a fight that nearly killed him.
• Moorer: Beating Moorer is no great feat. It was only considered a good win because Foreman was so old.

He really doesn't compare to the other fighters on the list. I personally think that his second career is badly, badly overrated.

Frazier was not YEARS past his prime, Foreman still owned him in two fights
when Frazier was at both time a TOP ranked fighter.

Ken Norton had just beaten and broken the jaw of everyone's hero, Ali. Norton
was still a force and was beating guys up until 1980. Norton had some good
wins on his record and would go on to stay very close to the top.

Lyle any way you look at it was a top guy, he was at the time a serious contender
and a danger to anyone he faced.

How was beating Moorer no great feat ? How often does a 40yo beat a 28yo world champion ?
Moorer had just beaten Holyfield, was a phenom at LHW and had proven
himself to be capable as a HW.

Other wins for Foreman in the last 40 years.....

George Chuvalo - 1969, he stopped the tough and still dangerous and always
highly ranked Canadian.

Gerry Cooney 1990 - Cooney was only a name, but the fact remains he was
a real test and proved to many that Foreman was serious and a threat.

Shannon Briggs 1997- Ok he lost the 'decision' but he still beat a then very
capable and top contender, this is impressive considering he was 46.

Foreman's entire Pro career was in the last 40 years and there is no denying
that he was inside and outside of the ring one of the most influential and
dominating figures of the sport.

Robinson wrote:

Big Bad John wrote:Foreman? He had a few exciting fights, but the fighters he beat weren't exactly a Murderer's Row:

• Joe Frazier I: Years past his prime and 10 pounds overweight
• Norton: Very good win, but aside from Ali, who did Norton beat?
• Lyle: Really, this win was only good because of the timing and of course, because Foreman got off the canvas twice. Lyle was perenially in the bottom half of the top 10, but he'd given Ali a little trouble in an awful fight and stopped Shavers.
• Frazier II: He was coming off a fight that nearly killed him.
• Moorer: Beating Moorer is no great feat. It was only considered a good win because Foreman was so old.

He really doesn't compare to the other fighters on the list. I personally think that his second career is badly, badly overrated.

Frazier was not YEARS past his prime, Foreman still owned him in two fights
when Frazier was at both time a TOP ranked fighter.

Ken Norton had just beaten and broken the jaw of everyone's hero, Ali. Norton
was still a force and was beating guys up until 1980. Norton had some good
wins on his record and would go on to stay very close to the top.

Lyle any way you look at it was a top guy, he was at the time a serious contender
and a danger to anyone he faced.

How was beating Moorer no great feat ? How often does a 40yo beat a 28yo world champion ?
Moorer had just beaten Holyfield, was a phenom at LHW and had proven
himself to be capable as a HW.

Other wins for Foreman in the last 40 years.....

George Chuvalo - 1969, he stopped the tough and still dangerous and always
highly ranked Canadian.

Gerry Cooney 1990 - Cooney was only a name, but the fact remains he was
a real test and proved to many that Foreman was serious and a threat.

Shannon Briggs 1997- Ok he lost the 'decision' but he still beat a then very
capable and top contender, this is impressive considering he was 46.

Foreman's entire Pro career was in the last 40 years and there is no denying
that he was inside and outside of the ring one of the most influential and
dominating figures of the sport.

Here's Ring Magazine's Top Eighty Of All Time:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_Magaz ... t_80_Years

If you narrow it down to the last forty years Foreman is at 10...

Maybe I was a bit too generous...

Here's some lists of top ten heavyweights:


http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=6087&more=1


http://coxscorner.tripod.com/20heavyweights.html



http://coxscorner.tripod.com/20heavyweights.html


George is always there

Yeah, it's a great career, but not good enough to make my top 20 pound-for-pound of the past 40 years. I personally rank him the #8 heavyweight of all time. Again, he doesn't make the list.

TheOneIsHere2008, if you're posting Monte Cox's list for anything other than humor, I'll just have a laugh.

Theoneishere2008,

some people just dont like George...maybe they are not
fans of his grills ??

#8 heavyweight of all time. Top-50 or so, pound-for-pound. There are just other fighters I rank over him.

Big Bad John wrote:Yeah, it's a great career, but not good enough to make my top 20 pound-for-pound of the past 40 years. I personally rank him the #8 heavyweight of all time. Again, he doesn't make the list.

TheOneIsHere2008, if you're posting Monte Cox's list for anything other than humor, I'll just have a laugh.

What's Monte Cox's list?

My uncle was a real boxer as was my dad... They weren't the Klitschko brothers or even the Ali brothers but they were boxers...My uncle was a professional boxer ...My dad-an amateur boxer...They knew Dempsey and all the od timers...I just brought it up to demonstrate I'm not a fan boy ...It takes brass ones to go in the ring with someone who is getting paid to take your head off... Me... I just put on gloves for shit and kicks...He was blinded in the ring (detactched retina)...My uncle was the National Guard Light Heavyweight Champ in the thirties...That's not like being able to beat up everybody in home room...

Back to George:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpEuGaRp9l8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb1GQx42 ... re=related


If George Foreman really ducked Jerry Quarry I don't know for the life of me why...





Your position seems to be softening a bit...

Big Bad John wrote:Yeah, it's a great career, but not good enough to make my top 20 pound-for-pound of the past 40 years. I personally rank him the #8 heavyweight of all time. Again, he doesn't make the list.

TheOneIsHere2008, if you're posting Monte Cox's list for anything other than humor, I'll just have a laugh.

Zac, you ever seen a photo of Monte?

OK, he's not quite in your league for sheer ugliness, but then who is?

Robinson wrote:Theoneishere2008,

some people just dont like George...maybe they are not
fans of his grills ??

Was it Larry Holmes who said "what's the point of eating a hamburger if it's not greasey?"

I like Big George...He's a good ambassador for the sport...Ali would have been a great ambassador but sadly he can't be...

I think if Foreman ducked Quarry it was because there was
at the time no need to face Quarry.

Quarry was always an up and down fighter, he could look
great and beat a top contender, and then he would lose
and seem way out classed.

As for Foreman-Shavers....well Earnie was not really coming
into that great prominence until the mid-late 1970s so who is
to say what would of happened if Foreman had of beaten Young
and stuck around.

I dont see that being criteria, I mean every great fighter
had challengers they COULD have faced, but did not for
what ever circumstances came about.