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He was 32, he had a lot of success, I don't think he would have had trouble moving back down to LH....I would think there was still money in it for him. Anyone know the facts as to why this was his last fight?

Oh...and why was the Cooney fight NOT an IBF championship fight?

BoxBuzz wrote:He was 32, he had a lot of success, I don't think he would have had trouble moving back down to LH....I would think there was still money in it for him. Anyone know the facts as to why this was his last fight?

Oh...and why was the Cooney fight NOT an IBF championship fight?

Bad knee, plus achieved his goals in boxing and financially secure. Pretty much the ideal way to leave I would have thought.

Yup, the ideal way...

Collins2000 wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:He was 32, he had a lot of success, I don't think he would have had trouble moving back down to LH....I would think there was still money in it for him. Anyone know the facts as to why this was his last fight?

Oh...and why was the Cooney fight NOT an IBF championship fight?

Bad knee, plus achieved his goals in boxing and financially secure. Pretty much the ideal way to leave I would have thought.

He would have a better legacy if he never took the fight...Instead of being remembered as the boxer who stopped Larry Holmes and saved Rocky's record he's remembered as the fighter who was so scared of Mike Tyson he couldn't break a sweat in the dressing room...

I'm guessing his heart just wasn't in it. It may seem anticlimatic to win the lightheavyweight title again. Maybe he would have had trouble getting down to 175 again.

As for Cooney fight not being for the IBF title, Spinks was stripped of the title by the IBF before that
He was supposed to make a mandatory defense the title against the #1 contender, Tony Tucker. I believe that was also supposed to be part of the tournament that featured all 3 champions and some top contenders to produce and undisputed chanpion. Spinks decided to fight Cooney for much bigger money instead. This was supposed to be a showdown and was billed as "War at The Shore".
There was a lot more $ to be made fighting Cooney than Tony Tucker, who wasn't very well known. No less of a boxing authority than Jim Lampley himself predicted that Cooney would win.

Before that fight took place, a guy named James Douglas then fought Tucker in a fight that was for the vacant IBF title.

Actually, Spinks was stripped because he fought Cooney instead of Don King's fighter. He actually gained money by dropping the IBF title and fighting Cooney.

Spinks had two bad knees going into the Tyson fight. He'd only fought once in the previous two years. Anyway, Spinks's true legacy is what he did at 175, where he was arguably one of the best fighters ever at that weight (I have him at #3, behind Charles and Spinks). Him beating Holmes was just the icing on the cake.

Another thing I keep hearing is that Spinks was afraid of Tyson. Facial expressions aren't everything. He didn't fight like he was afraid of Tyson. He didn't box and move; he went straight at Tyson. That was his undoing. He could have Derrick Gainered himself into the fifth or sixth round, but at least he made a fight of it, or at least tried.

Spinks had retired before the Tyson fight as far as I'm concerned. He just hadn't made it official yet.

He was only semi-active at that time, and he came into the Tyson fight about 10 pounds overweight, which basically told me that he was showing up mainly for the payday and probably couldn't/wouldn't stick around too long if the going got tough.

Spinks' career had already reached its peak in the first Holmes fight. He escaped with a very questionable decision in the rematch, and then basically held his "lineal champ" status hostage for 2 years while waiting for some big paydays to come along. While Tyson was actively cleaning out the division (and calling for a Spinks match), Spinks wasn't fighting any of the other champions or top contenders. I've always felt that Spinks ducked a Tyson fight until he got the money he wanted. I also believe that if Spinks didn't have that mystique that often comes with being unbeaten, there would never have been nearly as much excitment over a Tyson-Spinks match.

Big Bad John wrote:. . .

Another thing I keep hearing is that Spinks was afraid of Tyson. Facial expressions aren't everything. He didn't fight like he was afraid of Tyson. He didn't box and move; he went straight at Tyson. That was his undoing. He could have Derrick Gainered himself into the fifth or sixth round, but at least he made a fight of it, or at least tried.

You will only find comments like this on "boxing" sites like boxrec.

Yes, Spinks "made a fight of it."

Ninety-one seconds worth.

LOL

And that includes the Ten-count.

LOL

Ambling Alp wrote:No less of a boxing authority than Jim Lampley himself predicted that Cooney would win.

If he didn't have his confidence destroyed by the Holmes loss and spent the few years afterwards bouncing in and out of rehab, he most likely would have beaten Spinks.

Big Bad John wrote: Another thing I keep hearing is that Spinks was afraid of Tyson. Facial expressions aren't everything. He didn't fight like he was afraid of Tyson. He didn't box and move; he went straight at Tyson. That was his undoing. He could have Derrick Gainered himself into the fifth or sixth round, but at least he made a fight of it, or at least tried.

I agree that Spinks did make an effort to win the fight. But the question is, how much of one?

The punch that KO'd him landed on the wrong side of his face. It's not the kind of punch you'd ever expect would have the proper placement to put someone away (in fact, I can't remember seeing a single other fighter getting KO'd with a punch that landed that way).

It looked to me that he indeed tried, but that he likely had no intention of hanging around if Tyson put some hurt on him. He certainly didn't seem to be in the kind of physical shape that would allow him to hang with Tyson, that's for sure.

Big Bad John wrote: Anyway, Spinks's true legacy is what he did at 175, where he was arguably one of the best fighters ever at that weight (I have him at #3, behind Charles and Spinks).

?

ebeneezer wrote:

Big Bad John wrote: Anyway, Spinks's true legacy is what he did at 175, where he was arguably one of the best fighters ever at that weight (I have him at #3, behind Charles and Spinks).

?

My guess is he meant Moore and Charles....(in that order). And if he didnt' mean them in that order allow me to correct him and place the names in their proper order.

granberry wrote:

Big Bad John wrote:. . .

Another thing I keep hearing is that Spinks was afraid of Tyson. Facial expressions aren't everything. He didn't fight like he was afraid of Tyson. He didn't box and move; he went straight at Tyson. That was his undoing. He could have Derrick Gainered himself into the fifth or sixth round, but at least he made a fight of it, or at least tried.

You will only find comments like this on "boxing" sites like boxrec.

Yes, Spinks "made a fight of it."

Ninety-one seconds worth.

LOL

And that includes the Ten-count.

LOL

Granny, he got destroyed by the better man on the night.

It happens in boxing. No shame in that.

See Ali - Liston (2).

Some retards (i.e.: Ali-worshippers) think Ali-Liston II was legitimate.

LOL

I guess he did what he needed to do. Why not, if he invested
well made enough money for his family. He is smart.

He has nothing to be ashamed of. Being KO'd in 91 seconds by
a prime Tyson does not wash away all that he achieved before
as a pro and amateur nor does it change who he is to his family
today.

granberry wrote:Some retards (i.e.: Ali-worshippers) think Ali-Liston II was legitimate.

LOL

Some retards (i.e.: Terap) think Gerry Cooney Jimmy Young was a fix.

LOL

ebeneezer wrote:

granberry wrote:Some retards (i.e.: Ali-worshippers) think Ali-Liston II was legitimate.

LOL

Some retards (i.e.: Terap) think Gerry Cooney Jimmy Young was a fix.

LOL

Who is Terap?

If Clay (Ali) Liston ll was a fix wouldn't they make it more realistic?

When LaMotta took his admitted dive he didn't fall from the first punch that hit him...

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:
If Clay (Ali) Liston ll was a fix wouldn't they make it more realistic?

When LaMotta took his admitted dive he didn't fall from the first punch that hit him...

No, but LaMotta made it look pretty obvious in his own way. Obvious enough that everyone at the time felt certain it was a dive.

Once the fighters are in the ring, there is no "they" that is taking a dive. It is all up to the one fighter who is going to lose, to do it however way he chooses.

If Ali had KO'd him legitimately, why would he stand over him for so long, calling him a "dog", accusing him of quitting, and yelling at him to get back up? Why wouldn't he acknowledge and celebrate such an impressive victory, that would otherwise be the most impressive of his career? It seems an awful coincidence to me that the one and only fight in which Ali creates a big scene after his opponent is knocked down is the one and only that looks to virtually everyone like a blatant dive.

My2Sense wrote:

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:
If Clay (Ali) Liston ll was a fix wouldn't they make it more realistic?

When LaMotta took his admitted dive he didn't fall from the first punch that hit him...

No, but LaMotta made it look pretty obvious in his own way. Obvious enough that everyone at the time felt certain it was a dive.

Once the fighters are in the ring, there is no "they" that is taking a dive. It is all up to the one fighter who is going to lose, to do it however way he chooses.

If Ali had KO'd him legitimately, why would he stand over him for so long, calling him a "dog", accusing him of quitting, and yelling at him to get back up? Why wouldn't he acknowledge and celebrate such an impressive victory, that would otherwise be the most impressive of his career? It seems an awful coincidence to me that the one and only fight in which Ali creates a big scene after his opponent is knocked down is the one and only that looks to virtually everyone like a blatant dive.

No one is disputing the Liston took the easy way out in the 2nd fight. That's his perogative and he had to live with it. He's not the first and he won't be the last boxer who didn't fancy the job once the bell rang and the talking stopped.

Granberry (terap) is saying something different. His claim is that Liston was a much better fighter than Ali at that time and in both fights Sonny was paid to not give his best effort because if he had given his best effort he would have easily beaten Ali.

ebeneezer wrote:

granberry wrote:Some retards (i.e.: Ali-worshippers) think Ali-Liston II was legitimate.

LOL

Some retards (i.e.: Terap) think Gerry Cooney Jimmy Young was a fix.

LOL

Some people know Young-Cooney was a fix.

Like anybody who knows the most basic techniques of boxing.

Young stood directly in front of Cooney and let Cooney hit him to the head and body.

It bothers poor ebeneezer to no end that Cooney was a media-created NY fake who lost to anyone who hit him back, even pathetic Michael Spinks.

LOL

gran....why could this not be accounted for by a Young that was simply losing his skills? It happens to the best of em. I think you've mentioned in the past that things were going on in his life that caused him to lose focus. Was it a fix? Or was it that his edge was lost?

Gran

how do you think a Young vs M. Spinks fight would play out ?

That'd be a pretty interesting match up.

Once Young was cut,

in his corner his 'cornermen" put a substance on his cut which keeps a cut open.

Right on national TV.

You would have to know the basics of the subject to see that.

The 'cornermen' who were in Young's corner for the Cooney fake were never in his corner for any other fight he had.

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:When LaMotta took his admitted dive he didn't fall from the first punch that hit him...

According to his autobiography, LaMotta didn't mind losing by knockout, but he refused to be knocked down. He was pretty proud of never being knocked down.

My2Sense wrote:Spinks had retired before the Tyson fight as far as I'm concerned. He just hadn't made it official yet.

He was only semi-active at that time, and he came into the Tyson fight about 10 pounds overweight, which basically told me that he was showing up mainly for the payday and probably couldn't/wouldn't stick around too long if the going got tough.

Spinks' career had already reached its peak in the first Holmes fight. He escaped with a very questionable decision in the rematch, and then basically held his "lineal champ" status hostage for 2 years while waiting for some big paydays to come along. While Tyson was actively cleaning out the division (and calling for a Spinks match), Spinks wasn't fighting any of the other champions or top contenders. I've always felt that Spinks ducked a Tyson fight until he got the money he wanted. I also believe that if Spinks didn't have that mystique that often comes with being unbeaten, there would never have been nearly as much excitment over a Tyson-Spinks match.

I pretty much agree... He wasn't going to risk going in with any younger, faster HWs and ruin his chance of a big pay day against Tyson... he had the lineal status so fair enough as he did eventually face him.

The Cooney fight was great matchmaking as it afterwards it allowed many to believe that Spinks could take out a big banger.

I thinkl he got something like 5-7M dollars for Tyson. Dropping back down to 175 or 190 for comparitive peanuts probably didn't really do it for him.

I remember him as a true great...