BoxRec

They were all juvenile delinquents but Big George and Floyd were able to use boxing as a means to better themselves and become not just great boxers but exemplary role models...Mike Tyson could never put his juvenile delinquency behind him and carried many of those tendencies into adulthood.If he had he would have been a greater boxer and a great human being.

Why were Big George and Floyd capable of escaping their criminal youth but not Mike Tyson. Tyson seemed to revel in it...

Floyd and George grew up and took responsibility for their lives. Mike may be finally reaching that point in his life as well.

BoxBuzz wrote:Floyd and George grew up and took responsibility for their lives. Mike may be finally reaching that point in his life as well.

Like Tyson , Big George was a mugger, but I can't see even a young George Foreman mugging an old lady...The way I understand it Big George ran with a gang that used to roll drunks...Not quite the level of mugging old ladies...

Well the "May" is very reversible He "May not" be there yet. I suppose like many folks he may never make it.

well the "mugging" old ladies is kind of harsh saying that about Tyson. Tyson was a lost cause and only a kid. He did what he did, and regretted it obviously as he grew older and mature. If you look at Tyson's life, i would not say he "reveled" in crimes. He simply could not cope with the tragedies hitting him.

It was only when he got under Cus he became civilized and some-what down to earth. But after Cus died, yet another tragedy, things went down hill. After the whole saga with his ex-wife, Tyson seemingly could not cope and therefore appeared aggressive around the Media, not wanting to be a tool.

IMO, Tyson did have a more complicated issues to deal with than Floyd and Foreman.

I don't agree with that observer. I remember hearing something about how, even after becoming champion, Tyson committed a robbery with a friend. I don't know if he found beating up old ladies fun, but I do remember hearing Tyson tell stories about how he robbed hotels and how he found it fun at the time. And I remember watching Tyson's "Beyond the Glory" episode, I believe it was, where it said that even with D'Amato he molested women and got expelled from school for it. D'Amato helped Tyson, but he didn't "civilize" him either.

Also, Tyson didn't become Heavyweight champion for another year, more or less, after D'Amato died. So I don't see the argument that Tyson's career went down hill after D'Amato; his championship years were all after that. I doubt anything would have prevented his eventual decline, but if I had to point to something it would be Jacobs' death and the Don King circus that came afterward, along with the Robin Givens thing, and not D'Amato's death, which seemed to be the point where Mike's career started to unravel.

I do agree with the notion that Tyson was more screwed up than George and Patterson.

... and they all used variations of the peak-a-boo/crossarm defense. Archie Moore was a juvenile delinquent as well.

IN more modern times pop culture and the media rewards
the 'bad boy' child like antics of a celebrity.

Foreman and Patterson come from an era when men, especially
in status and well of colour had to grow up and conduct themselves
as such.

observer1 wrote:well the "mugging" old ladies is kind of harsh saying that about Tyson. Tyson was a lost cause and only a kid. He did what he did, and regretted it obviously as he grew older and mature. If you look at Tyson's life, i would not say he "reveled" in crimes. He simply could not cope with the tragedies hitting him.

It was only when he got under Cus he became civilized and some-what down to earth. But after Cus died, yet another tragedy, things went down hill. After the whole saga with his ex-wife, Tyson seemingly could not cope and therefore appeared aggressive around the Media, not wanting to be a tool.

IMO, Tyson did have a more complicated issues to deal with than Floyd and Foreman.

how is it harsh he used to go up to old ladies in that gay voice of his ask them if they needed a hand with their groceries and when they were out of sight knock there teeth out pretty pathetic really

he did not become very civilised under cus and more down to earth cus made sure everyone was paid off for what tyson did to them or around them, as he would of violated his parol and cus' ticket to the big time would of been lost for ever

also cus really only oversaw what happened with tyson the people closest to tyson was atlas(until he suspended tyson from training for getrting in trouble for the upteenth time then was replaced by rooney after cus decided that if tyson was suspended it may make him just a lil bit further away form a world title) and kevin rooney D'Amato did not train tyson it was atlas and then rooney i believe getting rid of rooney was a big mistake

also i think he may have been abit older than he said he was when he was 12yrs old he was 5'9 and 190 punds when he was fully grown he was 5'11 and 220 pounds most kids grow alot more after they are 12

Robinson wrote:IN more modern times pop culture and the media rewards
the 'bad boy' child like antics of a celebrity.

Foreman and Patterson come from an era when men, especially
in status and well of colour had to grow up and conduct themselves
as such.

Yes,the "thug" is celebrated by some today...But even today, mugging old ladies would be universally condemned...

observer1 wrote:
It was only when he got under Cus he became civilized and some-what down to earth. But after Cus died, yet another tragedy, things went down hill. After the whole saga with his ex-wife, Tyson seemingly could not cope and therefore appeared aggressive around the Media, not wanting to be a tool.
.

Observer.. where do you get your info from? Its pretty well known that Cus would not discipline Tyson, and covered up & made excuses for all manner of anti social and aggressive behaviour by Tyson, whilst under Cus's wing.

Tyson has never, ever been a disciplined or respectful person.

Read Blood Season, Bad Intentions, Only In America, Fire & the Fury, Teddy Atlas's book, all of which paint a similar picture of Tyson, all from immediate sources with direct regular access to the man.

overhand_right wrote:

observer1 wrote:
It was only when he got under Cus he became civilized and some-what down to earth. But after Cus died, yet another tragedy, things went down hill. After the whole saga with his ex-wife, Tyson seemingly could not cope and therefore appeared aggressive around the Media, not wanting to be a tool.
.

Observer.. where do you get your info from? Its pretty well known that Cus would not discipline Tyson, and covered up & made excuses for all manner of anti social and aggressive behaviour by Tyson, whilst under Cus's wing.

Tyson has never, ever been a disciplined or respectful person.

Read Blood Season, Bad Intentions, Only In America, Fire & the Fury, Teddy Atlas's book, all of which paint a similar picture of Tyson, all from immediate sources with direct regular access to the man.

It's sad that Cus made Tyson into a feared boxer but not a good man...Perhaps if he spent more time on the latter Mike Tyson wouldn't be where he is now. It's a tragedy.

Tyson regrets mugging old ladies, but he doesn't mind kicking old men in the balls.

dont forget Frank Bruno was a juvenile deliquint as well, and he seemed like an alright guy, though of course him and his wife got divorced cus he beat the shit out of her all the time

Frank Bruno's even more retarded than Mike Tyson.

I have a soft spot for Bruno. I dont really enjoy watching all
of his fights, something about his muscle bound awkwardness
that does not appeal to me (though I do have 12 or so of his
fights on DVD), I just have taken a liking to him over the last
few years.

Mike Tyson suffers from Bipolar disorder and Paranoia. He was abused as a child. Neither Foreman nor Patterson had to deal with that as kids then suffer through those disorders as adults. On top of that Tyson got taken advantage of by virtually everyone who got near him. It all took its toll and dmaged him even worse emotionally. Tyson in retirement seems to finally be finding some peace in his life and ultimately that's what ppl who are bipolar-paranoia sufferers are in search of to maintain equilibrium.

Jeez. Tyson's Bipolar diagnosis was the product of Robin Givens and her mother. Tyson didn't see a shrink around that time. Givens did, and she diagnosed Tyson from listening to her shrink. I've never been a part of the "Given ruined Tyson" conspiracy, but no psychiatrist who worked with Tyson ever diagnosed him as having bipolar.

My ex- is the same way. She keeps diagnosing me with shit.

Big Bad John wrote:Jeez. Tyson's Bipolar diagnosis was the product of Robin Givens and her mother. Tyson didn't see a shrink around that time. Givens did, and she diagnosed Tyson from listening to her shrink. I've never been a part of the "Given ruined Tyson" conspiracy, but no psychiatrist who worked with Tyson ever diagnosed him as having bipolar.

My ex- is the same way. She keeps diagnosing me with shit.

I couldve sworn Tyson was later diagnosed with something like that. I mean he said himself "I'm on zoloft right now to keep from killing y'all!" to a bunch of reporters. Zoloft being a popular anti-psychotic

Diamond WEAPON wrote:

Big Bad John wrote:Jeez. Tyson's Bipolar diagnosis was the product of Robin Givens and her mother. Tyson didn't see a shrink around that time. Givens did, and she diagnosed Tyson from listening to her shrink. I've never been a part of the "Given ruined Tyson" conspiracy, but no psychiatrist who worked with Tyson ever diagnosed him as having bipolar.

My ex- is the same way. She keeps diagnosing me with shit.

I couldve sworn Tyson was later diagnosed with something like that. I mean he said himself "I'm on zoloft right now to keep from killing y'all!" to a bunch of reporters. Zoloft being a popular anti-psychotic

No. Zoloft is an anti-depressant/anti-anxiety medication. I highly suggest you refrain from posting about subjects that you do not understand. It will cause less confusion in the fora. Please PM me the next time you are unsure as to whether or not you are full of shit.

Big Bad John wrote:

Diamond WEAPON wrote:

Big Bad John wrote:Jeez. Tyson's Bipolar diagnosis was the product of Robin Givens and her mother. Tyson didn't see a shrink around that time. Givens did, and she diagnosed Tyson from listening to her shrink. I've never been a part of the "Given ruined Tyson" conspiracy, but no psychiatrist who worked with Tyson ever diagnosed him as having bipolar.

My ex- is the same way. She keeps diagnosing me with shit.

I couldve sworn Tyson was later diagnosed with something like that. I mean he said himself "I'm on zoloft right now to keep from killing y'all!" to a bunch of reporters. Zoloft being a popular anti-psychotic

No. Zoloft is an anti-depressant/anti-anxiety medication. I highly suggest you refrain from posting about subjects that you do not understand. It will cause less confusion in the fora. Please PM me the next time you are unsure as to whether or not you are full of shit.

Ok, anti-depression/anti-anxiety, I wasn't calling myself a pharmacist. Regardless of if it was anti-anxiety or anti-psychotic wasn't really the point, since both kinds of drugs are often used to treat people with disorders like bipolar-disorder, anti-social disorder, and borderline personality disorder.

Now, I was trying to be civil on the matter, in my argument that Tyson simply wasn't as mentally stable as Foreman, Patterson, etc. but would you kindly tell me wtf he was taking zoloft for then?

For depression. NOT bipolar disorder. They are completely different diseases.

Zoloft is an anti-depressant/anti-anxiety agent...Thorazine and Risperdal are two anti-psychotic agents...

They are two very different sets of drugs for different diseases...

Bipolar disorder or manic depression causes extreme shifts in mood from elation to despair...It can cause psychoses or psychotic behavior which is a form of detachment from reality which is not what I think we are dealing with with Mike Tyson...

I don't think Mike Tyson's behavior can be so easily explained away...

I did see a very brief clip in a Tyson documentary where a doctor, probably from some time in the late 80s, said that he met with Tyson and that Tyson was not bipolar, or manic depressive as he called it.

He exhibits all the characteristics of a sociopath like his hero Sonny Liston...

I remember reading about how Sonny Liston and George Foreman were walking down the street and they saw this couple walking toward them... Sonny Liston ogled the woman and made a remark about her large breasts while her boyfriend or husband was walking with her... That sounds like something Mike Tyson would do but I couldn't see Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, or Lenox Lewis doing something like that in a million years...