BoxRec

Go to the 4:00 mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExzgWWmEeDo

Ali did a tour where he was in the front row for a bunch of wrestling shows around the nation. He made a bit of cash out of it, but the wrestlers didn't like the setup. Ali would get in the ring, and the wrestler would go down for the count from a fake punch. Of course, the Gorilla routine might have been setup in advance, a lot of people believe that Gorilla simply broke from the script. He sure held on to that airplane spin for quite a while, and one of Ali's bodyguards got into the ring.

Jake "the Snake" Roberts did break from the script when Ali went to Mid South. After Ali knocked him out with a fake punch, Roberts jumped back up and did the Ali Shuffle. He later said, "Ali was never coming back, but I had to work there, you know."

Big Bad John wrote:Ali did a tour where he was in the front row for a bunch of wrestling shows around the nation. He made a bit of cash out of it, but the wrestlers didn't like the setup. Ali would get in the ring, and the wrestler would go down for the count from a fake punch. Of course, the Gorilla routine might have been setup in advance, a lot of people believe that Gorilla simply broke from the script. He sure held on to that airplane spin for quite a while, and one of Ali's bodyguards got into the ring.

Jake "the Snake" Roberts did break from the script when Ali went to Mid South. After Ali knocked him out with a fake punch, Roberts jumped back up and did the Ali Shuffle. He later said, "Ali was never coming back, but I had to work there, you know."

I saw Jake The Snake Roberts in the wrestling documentary "Beyond The Mat"... He is a sad case-a cokehead...

From the Ithaca College Quarterly 1999/ No. 4, from where Gorilla Monsoon was an alumni:

Bob Marella ’59, arguably the most famous professional wrestler to come out of Rochester as the globally known Gorilla Monsoon, died October 6, 1999, of complications from a recent heart attack. He was 62.

Marella had been a star athlete at his high school and at Ithaca College before becoming one of pro wrestling’s best-known and best-paid performers in the 1960s and 1970s. He weighed around 300 pounds as a football player, wrestler and track and field athlete at Jefferson High School in Rochester and was in the 350-pound range at Ithaca (where he was affectionately nicknamed "Tiny"). He topped 400 as one of the top drawing cards in pro wrestling.

He was a road agent and prominent television commentator for the World Wrestling Federation for many years after retiring from the ring, often sharing the microphone with current Minnesota governor Jesse Ventura. His last ring and TV appearance was at this year’s Wrestlemania.

"I was a physical education major at Ithaca, and the only thing I regret about becoming a professional wrestler is that I missed the opportunity to teach youngsters," Marella said in a 1978 interview. "Of course, there aren’t many $100,000-a-year teachers."

Marella’s size and athletic ability attracted the attention of western New York pro wrestling promoter Pedro Martinez. Marella made his pro wrestling debut at the Rochester War Memorial in the summer of 1959 and 6,000 fans — four times the normal turnout — saw him quickly pin "bad guy" Pauncho Lopez.

Marella was a "good guy" in the early years of his pro wrestling career but didn’t hit it big until his Gorilla Monsoon gimmick began in 1963. The story line said he was born on an isolated farm in Manchuria, earned his keep wrestling bears with a gypsy caravan, arrived in America speaking no English, and ate raw meat washed down with the blood of his victims. He dwarfed most wrestlers of his era and had a full beard and fierce growl that made fans genuinely afraid of him. "I was a guy the fans loved to hate," he said.

Marella’s most publicized fling in the ring was a confrontation with Muhammad Ali in the summer of 1976 in Philadelphia. "Ali was trying to get publicity for an upcoming gimmick fight for a fortune against a Japanese wrestler (Antonio Inoki) and he apparently wanted to use me as a warm-up for publicity," Marella recalled. "I was in the ring, waiting for my regular match, when Ali jumped through the ropes, kicked off his shoes, tore off his shirt, and began screaming at me. I picked him up and tossed him to the mat with a ‘giant swing.’ But I gave him a break and didn’t use my ‘Manchurian splash.’ " Marella insisted the episode was not contrived: "I never saw him (Ali) before and haven’t seen him since."

A shrewd businessman, Marella predicted 20 years ago that pro wrestling would someday enjoy a mammoth revival on cable TV. He was a major player in that becoming a reality as a minor partner and confidant of WWF boss Vince McMahon Jr.

At Ithaca, Marella finished second in the NCAA wrestling championships in 1959 and an 18-second pin win remains the quickest in the school’s history. He set school records in the discus and shot put that lasted almost a decade after he graduated. He was inducted into the Ithaca College Athletic Hall of Fame in 1973. He proudly brought a WWF show to his alma mater in 1987.

I remember watching a clip of this on British TV at the time. I'm not sure Monsoon's body slam was in the script.
Ali got out of there pretty sharpish and pretty sheepish.

I don't know much about wrestling. But I took judo lessons in high school, and learned how to do a "fall" - i.e., when you are thrown but land properly so as to not get hurt (well, not hurt too much, that is). I think in wrestling, as in judo, the idea must be the same: to catch the force with your arms and legs.

Ali hit the canvas hard. He lands on his back/side and doesn't appear to catch the force with his arms or legs. It appears that Ali was really shook up from the fall. It seems to me that (a) Monsoon forgot/ignored the script and really tossed an unsuspecting Ali, or (b) it was planned, but Ali screwed up on the fall and almost hurt himself.

Either way, it sure is fun to watch!! And I thank TheOneIsHere2008 for posting it and bringing some merriment to my day!

raylawpc wrote:I don't know much about wrestling. But I took judo lessons in high school, and learned how to do a "fall" - i.e., when you are thrown but land properly so as to not get hurt (well, not hurt too much, that is). I think in wrestling, as in judo, the idea must be the same: to catch the force with your arms and legs.

Ali hit the canvas hard. He lands on his back/side and doesn't appear to catch the force with his arms or legs. It appears that Ali was really shook up from the fall. It seems to me that (a) Monsoon forgot/ignored the script and really tossed an unsuspecting Ali, or (b) it was planned, but Ali screwed up on the fall and almost hurt himself.

Either way, it sure is fun to watch!! And I thank TheOneIsHere2008 for posting it and bringing some merriment to my day!

Here, here! I've waited for years to see this clip again.

bennie wrote:

raylawpc wrote:I don't know much about wrestling. But I took judo lessons in high school, and learned how to do a "fall" - i.e., when you are thrown but land properly so as to not get hurt (well, not hurt too much, that is). I think in wrestling, as in judo, the idea must be the same: to catch the force with your arms and legs.

Ali hit the canvas hard. He lands on his back/side and doesn't appear to catch the force with his arms or legs. It appears that Ali was really shook up from the fall. It seems to me that (a) Monsoon forgot/ignored the script and really tossed an unsuspecting Ali, or (b) it was planned, but Ali screwed up on the fall and almost hurt himself.

Either way, it sure is fun to watch!! And I thank TheOneIsHere2008 for posting it and bringing some merriment to my day!

Here, here! I've waited for years to see this clip again.

Your welcome...

There are some other Ali-Wrestler videos floating around. I will try and find them for you later.

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:

bennie wrote:

raylawpc wrote:I don't know much about wrestling. But I took judo lessons in high school, and learned how to do a "fall" - i.e., when you are thrown but land properly so as to not get hurt (well, not hurt too much, that is). I think in wrestling, as in judo, the idea must be the same: to catch the force with your arms and legs.

Ali hit the canvas hard. He lands on his back/side and doesn't appear to catch the force with his arms or legs. It appears that Ali was really shook up from the fall. It seems to me that (a) Monsoon forgot/ignored the script and really tossed an unsuspecting Ali, or (b) it was planned, but Ali screwed up on the fall and almost hurt himself.

Either way, it sure is fun to watch!! And I thank TheOneIsHere2008 for posting it and bringing some merriment to my day!

Here, here! I've waited for years to see this clip again.

Your welcome...

There are some other Ali-Wrestler videos floating around. I will try and find them for you later.

Does he get thrown again? That was the fun part!!

bennie wrote:

raylawpc wrote:I don't know much about wrestling. But I took judo lessons in high school, and learned how to do a "fall" - i.e., when you are thrown but land properly so as to not get hurt (well, not hurt too much, that is). I think in wrestling, as in judo, the idea must be the same: to catch the force with your arms and legs.

Ali hit the canvas hard. He lands on his back/side and doesn't appear to catch the force with his arms or legs. It appears that Ali was really shook up from the fall. It seems to me that (a) Monsoon forgot/ignored the script and really tossed an unsuspecting Ali, or (b) it was planned, but Ali screwed up on the fall and almost hurt himself.

Either way, it sure is fun to watch!! And I thank TheOneIsHere2008 for posting it and bringing some merriment to my day!

Here, here! I've waited for years to see this clip again.

For you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Y1Cx0ysQiM

looks perfectly staged with the exact scripted moves and expected outcome. Ali obviously extends his hand and waits to be picked up. Very entertaining though.

raylawpc wrote:I don't know much about wrestling. But I took judo lessons in high school, and learned how to do a "fall" - i.e., when you are thrown but land properly so as to not get hurt (well, not hurt too much, that is). I think in wrestling, as in judo, the idea must be the same: to catch the force with your arms and legs.

Ali hit the canvas hard. He lands on his back/side and doesn't appear to catch the force with his arms or legs. It appears that Ali was really shook up from the fall. It seems to me that (a) Monsoon forgot/ignored the script and really tossed an unsuspecting Ali, or (b) it was planned, but Ali screwed up on the fall and almost hurt himself.

Either way, it sure is fun to watch!! And I thank TheOneIsHere2008 for posting it and bringing some merriment to my day!

I didnt know you did some Judo Raylaw.Thats outstanding.
I coach it.Competed in it alot.
Alis fall was not real good, no question.
Id say Gorilla made him a little dizzy.
That mat looks like it has some give to it and he didnt bounce his head or land on his shoulder or neck.So he was probably ok.
The thrill of getting thrown is something everyone should experience at some point.

BoxBuzz wrote:looks perfectly staged with the exact scripted moves and expected outcome. Ali obviously extends his hand and waits to be picked up. Very entertaining though.

I agree with your 100%. Ali was throwing the jab and leaving it hanging for Gorilla to slap down and Gorilla was still slow to knock it down. Not to mention, Ali wouldn't back down from getting thrown that way. He'd pop back up and let the hands go. 100% staged.

He wasn't throwing the jab. He was pointing at Monsoon.

Maybe he forgot the part about defending yourself at all times. And he was no match for Monsoon's lightening reflexes.

BoxBuzz wrote:Maybe he forgot the part about defending yourself at all times. And he was no match for Monsoon's lightening reflexes.

Ali walks straight out of the venue afterwards. Two scenarios: money earned or plain embarrassed.

My guess? A bit of both, he probably took the money AND was embarrassed. Though he did have a soft spot for wrestling (gorgeous george being a bit of an inspiration to him). So I suppose it's possible he walked out laughing, but my guess is that he just hoped it wouldn't get too much media attention and he could live with the somewhat contained embarrassment. Never suspecting that it would live forever in the future on youtube and such.

Imagine Joe Frazier in the same situation? Even if Joe initially agreed to it, he would have lost his cool and Joe and this 350 pound hulk would have been giving the crowd an unimaginable blood letting. IMHO. You can look at it two ways, Joe had way too much pride to drag boxing through the wrestling venues OR he just didn't have the sense of humor to make something like this work. (Once again probably a bit of both).

BoxBuzz wrote:My guess? A bit of both, he probably took the money AND was embarrassed. Though he did have a soft spot for wrestling (gorgeous george being a bit of an inspiration to him). So I suppose it's possible he walked out laughing, but my guess is that he just hoped it wouldn't get too much media attention and he could live with the somewhat contained embarrassment. Never suspecting that it would live forever in the future on youtube and such.

Imagine Joe Frazier in the same situation? Even if Joe initially agreed to it, he would have lost his cool and Joe and this 350 pound hulk would have been giving the crowd an unimaginable blood letting. IMHO. You can look at it two ways, Joe had way too much pride to drag boxing through the wrestling venues OR he just didn't have the sense of humor to make something like this work. (Once again probably a bit of both).

Joe Louis got involved in wrestling...Ditto for Jersey Joe Walcott... I suspect Joe wouldn't have been above the fun either...

I lived in Miami Beach for a spell as a kid and Chris Dundee, Angelo's brother was the promoter there...

Walcott lost a wrestling match to Lou Thesz.
Jersey Joe was corageous to get in there with Thesz even if it was a work.
Lou was a legitimate hooker and could cripple.
A very tough guy.

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:My guess? A bit of both, he probably took the money AND was embarrassed. Though he did have a soft spot for wrestling (gorgeous george being a bit of an inspiration to him). So I suppose it's possible he walked out laughing, but my guess is that he just hoped it wouldn't get too much media attention and he could live with the somewhat contained embarrassment. Never suspecting that it would live forever in the future on youtube and such.

Imagine Joe Frazier in the same situation? Even if Joe initially agreed to it, he would have lost his cool and Joe and this 350 pound hulk would have been giving the crowd an unimaginable blood letting. IMHO. You can look at it two ways, Joe had way too much pride to drag boxing through the wrestling venues OR he just didn't have the sense of humor to make something like this work. (Once again probably a bit of both).

Joe Louis got involved in wrestling...Ditto for Jersey Joe Walcott... I suspect Joe wouldn't have been above the fun either...

I lived in Miami Beach for a spell as a kid and Chris Dundee, Angelo's brother was the promoter there...

I worked with Joe in Hampton Va where he was performing with his band (more of an entourage) the Knock Outs and though I was impressed with him as a very good guy I also have to say he was pretty straightforward, strictly business and no nonsense. He knew a good time from what I could tell but his sense of humor seemed very mainstream and non-nuanced. If Lou Albano had gone a bit "off script" with Joe...I'm not sure he'd take it all in fun. Ali seemed to think the world was full of jokes and inside laughs and he seemed to usually go along for the ride.

That's just my take on it, I spent a bit of time around Joe but only met Ali briefly as walked through the Ritz Carlton in New York and I managed a quick hello and a handshake. Didn't even think to get an autograph. I got Joe's on a table napkin where he say's "Boogie Boogie Boogie" and signed his name.

BoxBuzz wrote:

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:My guess? A bit of both, he probably took the money AND was embarrassed. Though he did have a soft spot for wrestling (gorgeous george being a bit of an inspiration to him). So I suppose it's possible he walked out laughing, but my guess is that he just hoped it wouldn't get too much media attention and he could live with the somewhat contained embarrassment. Never suspecting that it would live forever in the future on youtube and such.

Imagine Joe Frazier in the same situation? Even if Joe initially agreed to it, he would have lost his cool and Joe and this 350 pound hulk would have been giving the crowd an unimaginable blood letting. IMHO. You can look at it two ways, Joe had way too much pride to drag boxing through the wrestling venues OR he just didn't have the sense of humor to make something like this work. (Once again probably a bit of both).

Joe Louis got involved in wrestling...Ditto for Jersey Joe Walcott... I suspect Joe wouldn't have been above the fun either...

I lived in Miami Beach for a spell as a kid and Chris Dundee, Angelo's brother was the promoter there...

I worked with Joe in Hampton Va where he was performing with his band (more of an entourage) the Knock Outs and though I was impressed with him as a very good guy I also have to say he was pretty straightforward, strictly business and no nonsense. He knew a good time from what I could tell but his sense of humor seemed very mainstream and non-nuanced. If Lou Albano had gone a bit "off script" with Joe...I'm not sure he'd take it all in fun. Ali seemed to think the world was full of jokes and inside laughs and he seemed to usually go along for the ride.

That's just my take on it, I spent a bit of time around Joe but only met Ali briefly as walked through the Ritz Carlton in New York and I managed a quick hello and a handshake. Didn't even think to get an autograph. I got Joe's on a table napkin where he say's "Boogie Boogie Boogie" and signed his name.

My mom met Muhammad Ali... My best friend and former business partner met Joe.Frazier ... I used to dislike Joe but now I realize how dumb it was to hate a athlete because he had a beef with an athlete you admire...When my friend met Joe he told him that he got the last laugh against Ali alluding to his Parkinson's Syndrome... Surprsinly Joe admonished him gently for saying that...I guess it's one thing to say it in an interview and another thing to say it
to a guy on an autograph line...I wish they would put the beef behind them...

I missed meeting Muhammad Ali by about ten minitues... As a young teen ager I used to play pool at the Marco Polo Hotel in Miami Beach, Florida ... At that time (1976) Muhammad Ali was in town...There was a night club in the hotel called the Swinger's Lounge... Melba Moore was playing there...Ali and his entourage came in to see her...My buddies and I used to hang outside to see the women going in but we were too young to go in ourselves...I would have loved to have met him...

BoxBuzz wrote:

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:My guess? A bit of both, he probably took the money AND was embarrassed. Though he did have a soft spot for wrestling (gorgeous george being a bit of an inspiration to him). So I suppose it's possible he walked out laughing, but my guess is that he just hoped it wouldn't get too much media attention and he could live with the somewhat contained embarrassment. Never suspecting that it would live forever in the future on youtube and such.

Imagine Joe Frazier in the same situation? Even if Joe initially agreed to it, he would have lost his cool and Joe and this 350 pound hulk would have been giving the crowd an unimaginable blood letting. IMHO. You can look at it two ways, Joe had way too much pride to drag boxing through the wrestling venues OR he just didn't have the sense of humor to make something like this work. (Once again probably a bit of both).

Joe Louis got involved in wrestling...Ditto for Jersey Joe Walcott... I suspect Joe wouldn't have been above the fun either...

I lived in Miami Beach for a spell as a kid and Chris Dundee, Angelo's brother was the promoter there...

I worked with Joe in Hampton Va where he was performing with his band (more of an entourage) the Knock Outs and though I was impressed with him as a very good guy I also have to say he was pretty straightforward, strictly business and no nonsense. He knew a good time from what I could tell but his sense of humor seemed very mainstream and non-nuanced. If Lou Albano had gone a bit "off script" with Joe...I'm not sure he'd take it all in fun. Ali seemed to think the world was full of jokes and inside laughs and he seemed to usually go along for the ride.

That's just my take on it, I spent a bit of time around Joe but only met Ali briefly as walked through the Ritz Carlton in New York and I managed a quick hello and a handshake. Didn't even think to get an autograph. I got Joe's on a table napkin where he say's "Boogie Boogie Boogie" and signed his name.

I once listened to Joe and Marvis on the Howard Stern show...Howard Stern was asking ridiculous questions about his bowel movements as his forte and saying he always thought Muhammad Ali was "white" when he was growing up alluding to his relatively light skin...

This was before the Douglas fight and Frazier sagely said the way to beat Tyson was "to hit him back" or not show fear...

Marvis is very funny... Howard asked Marvis what he was thinking when Tyson knocked him out ...Marvis said when the ref asked him if he was ok he said "mommy can i get off the potty now?"

I cant imagine Smokin Joe doing the wrestling gig.
Im sure he is a no nonsense guy.In fact, the whole Philly fighter reputation is not in tune with rasslin.
I couldnt picture Bad Bennie Briscoe having the sense of humor needed for this either.

Expug wrote:I cant imagine Smokin Joe doing the wrestling gig.

Starcade 1984, son. Joe Frazier was the special guest referee.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdA0KuYARYQ

Big Bad John wrote:

Expug wrote:I cant imagine Smokin Joe doing the wrestling gig.

Starcade 1984, son. Joe Frazier was the special guest referee.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdA0KuYARYQ

Who the f... are you callin son?
You better stick to Oragami junior.