BoxRec

Some of the old timers think so highly of the Bronx Bull... I am trying to learn how highly they really think of him...

Throw in Bernard Hopkins at 170 for good measure...

It depends. Are steroids allowed?

Jake LaMotta wasn't very tall and he didn't have a very big reach, but he had a hell of a jab, and he threw half again or twice as many punches as Roy Jones did. Jones would definitely land at a much higher connect percentage, and probably land more power shots, but LaMotta would have a good chance at outworking him:

• Roy Jones: -210
• Jake LaMotta: +180
• Jones by KO, TKO or DQ: +450
• Jones by Decision: -140
• LaMotta by KO, TKO or DQ: +290
• LaMotta by Decision: +215
• Over 13.5 Rounds: -205
• Under 13.5 Rounds: +190
• Draw: +2500

jones whips lamotta's ass all night. too big and fast.

bjermaine wrote:jones whips lamotta's ass all night. too big and fast.

I'm waiting for the Calzaghe fight...To see how much he has left in the basement...

Jake LaMotta does not belong in the 170lbs limit. At 160, it would be more interesting for both fighters.

elmersalsa wrote:Jake LaMotta does not belong in the 170lbs limit. At 160, it would be more interesting for both fighters.

Interesting that you say that, as LaMotta has always said that he was too big to be a middleweight and too small to be a light heavyweight, and that super middleweight was the ideal weight class for him. In fact, as an amateur, LaMotta fought at light heavyweight. He always had trouble making 160.

I think a prime RJJ beat lamotta. I don't know if he could stop him, but it is possible because RJJ at 168 lbs was mythical with his reflexes and one shot power from nowhere.

This version of RJJ, version 2008, would lose. I think Jake Lamotta would put the pressure on RJJ all night long and win a decision. RJJ would have his moments, I don't think, RJJ version 2008, would beat Lamotta.

Big Bad John wrote:It depends. Are steroids allowed?

Jake LaMotta wasn't very tall and he didn't have a very big reach, but he had a hell of a jab, and he threw half again or twice as many punches as Roy Jones did. Jones would definitely land at a much higher connect percentage, and probably land more power shots, but LaMotta would have a good chance at outworking him:

• Roy Jones: -210
• Jake LaMotta: +180
• Jones by KO, TKO or DQ: +450
• Jones by Decision: -140
• LaMotta by KO, TKO or DQ: +290
• LaMotta by Decision: +215
• Over 13.5 Rounds: -205
• Under 13.5 Rounds: +190
• Draw: +2500

Steroids are not that over defining.

Right, but steroids enabled Roy Jones to train harder than LaMotta could.

Big Bad John wrote:Right, but steroids enabled Roy Jones to train harder than LaMotta could.

wow! great comment. some of the crap on these boards is comical. you should change your name to big dumb john. jones tested for andro one time (by the way andro was legal to the public and in supplements at the time) and now i'm supposed to believe he did steroids his whole career. i don't know how to explain all the passed drug tests. i guess jones is a chemist in addition to being a hell of a fighter.

bjermaine wrote:

Big Bad John wrote:Right, but steroids enabled Roy Jones to train harder than LaMotta could.

wow! great comment. some of the crap on these boards is comical. you should change your name to big dumb john. jones tested for andro one time (by the way andro was legal to the public and in supplements at the time) and now i'm supposed to believe he did steroids his whole career. i don't know how to explain all the passed drug tests. i guess jones is a chemist in addition to being a hell of a fighter.

Roids can make you bigger but if you have to make weight I would think its effects would be diminished...For instance, Barry Bonds went from 185 to 240 pounds...A light heavweight doesn't have that option...

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:

bjermaine wrote:

Big Bad John wrote:Right, but steroids enabled Roy Jones to train harder than LaMotta could.

wow! great comment. some of the crap on these boards is comical. you should change your name to big dumb john. jones tested for andro one time (by the way andro was legal to the public and in supplements at the time) and now i'm supposed to believe he did steroids his whole career. i don't know how to explain all the passed drug tests. i guess jones is a chemist in addition to being a hell of a fighter.

Roids can make you bigger but if you have to make weight I would think its effects would be diminished...For instance, Barry Bonds went from 185 to 240 pounds...A light heavweight doesn't have that option...

Stanozol's a popular steroid among smaller fighters because it can increase strength without putting on weight. Further, Jones did not test positive for Andro. He tested positive for an anabolic steroid, and andro doesn't have any anabolic properties. And how come Jones didn't test positive more often? Lots of possible reasons. Masking agents, substandard testing and most importantly using steroids in the offseason while training, as a recovery drug.

I'm constantly shocked at how little boxing fans know about steroids.

jones only tested positive for andro. look it up. that's it, anything else you're making up. and now you're saying jones cheated on every drug test. this is why i don't like message boards. some asshole can make any and every accusation but doesn't have to worry about paying the legal consequence of their comments.

bjermaine wrote:jones only tested positive for andro. look it up. that's it, anything else you're making up. and now you're saying jones cheated on every drug test. this is why i don't like message boards. some asshole can make any and every accusation but doesn't have to worry about paying the legal consequence of their comments.

You are stupid and wrong. I've SEEN a copy of the actual letter the IBF sent to Roy Jones. It said that Jones had tested positive for an ANABOLIC steroid. Andro is NOT an anabolic steroid, as it has no anabolic properties, although in 2005 it was classified as an anabolic steroid by some law.

Basically, you're talking bullshit, and I doubt anyone on this message board will take anything you say seriously. Look, you idiot, here's IBF President Marian Muhammad discussing Roy Jones's positive test for ANABOLIC STEROIDS:

http://www.braggingrightscorner.com/saramuhammad.html

Jones was fast and would be fast in any era he fought but you can't watch two films and compare his speed to fighters from a different era.

There is no comparison to be made.

Ezzard wrote:Jones was fast and would be fast in any era he fought but you can't watch two films and compare his speed to fighters from a different era.

There is no comparison to be made.

I agree. At his weight, there may only be a handful of fighters in history that could have matched his speed and reflexes........Maybe less.

Big Bad John wrote:

bjermaine wrote:jones only tested positive for andro. look it up. that's it, anything else you're making up. and now you're saying jones cheated on every drug test. this is why i don't like message boards. some asshole can make any and every accusation but doesn't have to worry about paying the legal consequence of their comments.

You are stupid and wrong. I've SEEN a copy of the actual letter the IBF sent to Roy Jones. It said that Jones had tested positive for an ANABOLIC steroid. Andro is NOT an anabolic steroid, as it has no anabolic properties, although in 2005 it was classified as an anabolic steroid by some law.

Basically, you're talking bullshit, and I doubt anyone on this message board will take anything you say seriously. Look, you idiot, here's IBF President Marian Muhammad discussing Roy Jones's positive test for ANABOLIC STEROIDS:

http://www.braggingrightscorner.com/saramuhammad.html

If he tested positive why wasn't he dq'ed? Why doesn't he have a no-contest on his record for it? Why was there no suspension? If these are the common results for such an action then where is RJJ's? I'm not being an asshole about it... I just want to know why he got none of that when every fighter that does test positive seems to get it and it's plastered all over the news and internet?

I read, on this very board, and argued with someone a few years ago about this point. Only that guy said it was an ephedra based product RJJ tested for and then tried to argue with me claiming ephedra was a steroid. Which it isn't.

Big Bad John wrote:

bjermaine wrote:jones only tested positive for andro. look it up. that's it, anything else you're making up. and now you're saying jones cheated on every drug test. this is why i don't like message boards. some asshole can make any and every accusation but doesn't have to worry about paying the legal consequence of their comments.

You are stupid and wrong. I've SEEN a copy of the actual letter the IBF sent to Roy Jones. It said that Jones had tested positive for an ANABOLIC steroid. Andro is NOT an anabolic steroid, as it has no anabolic properties, although in 2005 it was classified as an anabolic steroid by some law.

Basically, you're talking bullshit, and I doubt anyone on this message board will take anything you say seriously. Look, you idiot, here's IBF President Marian Muhammad discussing Roy Jones's positive test for ANABOLIC STEROIDS:

http://www.braggingrightscorner.com/saramuhammad.html

which anabolic steroid?? i've seen the letter also. when it was finally revealed what the substance was, it was androstenedione, also known as andro. check the story below. the ibf should have probably fined or suspended jones and could have stripped him of his title but they didn't. jones had a substance that was legal at the time to the public in his system but illegal by the ibf. he should have known better. richard hall had twice the amount of andro in his system in that post-fight drug test.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing ... id=2782402

btw, andro is listed by many organizations as an anabolic steroid.

zslayton wrote:If he tested positive why wasn't he dq'ed? Why doesn't he have a no-contest on his record for it? Why was there no suspension? If these are the common results for such an action then where is RJJ's? I'm not being an asshole about it... I just want to know why he got none of that when every fighter that does test positive seems to get it and it's plastered all over the news and internet?

I read, on this very board, and argued with someone a few years ago about this point. Only that guy said it was an ephedra based product RJJ tested for and then tried to argue with me claiming ephedra was a steroid. Which it isn't.

one reason there was no dq or the fight wasn't declared a no contest was that indiana didn't have a law on drug testing after fights. also, if i understand this correctly, an athlete's B sample must be tested before action can be taken. jones admitted to taking ripped fuel and the B sample was never tested because of the fact there was no drug testing law. i think the ibf didn't take action because the B sample wasn't tested, that's just an opinion.

look, if there was more to this boxing journalists all over the world would have been all over this story. jones is the most hated fighter of his day by the media. really for nothing more than being arrogant. he was lb 4 lb the best fighter in the world and was fighter of the decade but still didn't get any respect from the majority of the media. (see ring magazine) jones seems to be a good dude for the most part outside the ring. you never see him in trouble and he does lots of charity work but the media doesn't care about those things. they'd rather cover tyson.

zslayton wrote:If he tested positive why wasn't he dq'ed? Why doesn't he have a no-contest on his record for it? Why was there no suspension? If these are the common results for such an action then where is RJJ's? I'm not being an asshole about it... I just want to know why he got none of that when every fighter that does test positive seems to get it and it's plastered all over the news and internet?

That's a valid question, and I'm glad you asked it. There are many reasons why no action was taken:

• The fight took place in a state with no post-fight testing. Of the three sanctioning bodies, only the WBA did any testing. Both fighters' respective camps didn't expect any testing to take place.
• Well, it was Roy Jones, and too much money was on the line.
• In the case of the IBF, a Byzantine system was in place to protect stars like Jones from being suspended from a positive test. According to current IBF President Murian Muhammad, the system in place at the time allowed for Roy Jones to clear his name by sending a "B" sample to a laboratory of his choice. The test wasn't done until three months later, and by that, anything could have happened to it.

zslayton wrote:I read, on this very board, and argued with someone a few years ago about this point. Only that guy said it was an ephedra based product RJJ tested for and then tried to argue with me claiming ephedra was a steroid. Which it isn't.

In 2000, Roy Jones's camp claimed that he'd been taking a sinus medication that caused the positive test. In 2003, he claimed that the positive test was a result of him taking a Ripped Fuel supplement containing ephedra. The fact that he changed his story makes his case extremely suspect. Basically, every athlete who tests positive comes up with an excuse. If Jones can't keep his story straight, why should we believe him?

bjermaine wrote:which anabolic steroid?? i've seen the letter also. when it was finally revealed what the substance was, it was androstenedione, also known as andro. check the story below. the ibf should have probably fined or suspended jones and could have stripped him of his title but they didn't. jones had a substance that was legal at the time to the public in his system but illegal by the ibf. he should have known better. richard hall had twice the amount of andro in his system in that post-fight drug test.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing ... id=2782402

btw, andro is listed by many organizations as an anabolic steroid.

I'm a bit skeptical, as that article cites no sources. As I've stated above, in 2005, andro was listed as an anabolic steroid by Congress, but it holds no anabolic properties. It's a bit of an anachronism for the IBF to be calling andro an anabolic steroid five years before it was controversially designated as such.

I'm of the opinion that many, or most, athletes try to do things, some legal, some illegal, to have an advantage, and only a small percentage of them get caught. In this day of the bigger, faster, stronger mindset it is possible that there are several champions out there that did things that were not illegal at the time they did them but are illegal now. I take nothing away from RJJ's accomplishments. I consider him the best fighter of the 1990's and an ATG. All you have to do is check my past post to know that. In my lifetime (1975-present), I have not seen a fighter with the tools RJJ had in the 1990's. I don't think that there have been many fighters in the history of the sport that have had his ability.

Punch output. That's one thing Jones never had. He'd always have trouble with a swarmer.

How can you compare his abilities with fighters from the past if he was using substances that they did not have access too?

You can compare his achievements and you can say he was great in his day. But you can't compare physical qualities and draw any conclusions that are worth making.

Ezzard wrote:How can you compare his abilities with fighters from the past if he was using substances that they did not have access too?

You can compare his achievements and you can say he was great in his day. But you can't compare physical qualities and draw any conclusions that are worth making.

The comparison can be made and is made on this board on nearly every post. In nearly all post on the 'boxers of the past' forum the old gets compared with the new, the then with the now. RJJ got caught taking something (ephedra or andro) and that makes his entire career a question mark? If that is the case then I question every fighter from before the 1970's since organized crime had their hands in the game (or so many claim). What about all the fighters that haven't been caught yet still used performance enhancing substances? I'm sure there are many more that used and still use them that have yet to be caught than those that have been outed for it. If that is how we are looking at things then everyone from every era is guilty of something and none of them can be compared to anyone other than the fighters of their time. If that is the case then we should just shut down the message boards and let everyone keep their opinions to themselves.

Yet again we go off topic. This post is about RJJ fighting Jake Lamotta at 170 pounds. I've are stated my case earlier in the thread so I'm done with it.

Big Bad John wrote:Punch output. That's one thing Jones never had. He'd always have trouble with a swarmer.

Yep. This is true. He did and still does have problems with guys that come right at him, crowd him, and throw a high volume of punches. However, I still give him the nod over Lamotta.