BoxRec

His technique also stayed pretty solid at a late age
also. But he always maintained his jab pretty well.
Its ashame that he never let it really go that well in
1988 against Tyson.

Robinson wrote:His technique also stayed pretty solid at a late age
also. But he always maintained his jab pretty well.
Its ashame that he never let it really go that well in
1988 against Tyson.

I thought he was moving rather well in that fight until Tyson nailed him... I think Larry beats him in his prime...

Agreed...but im one of those biased type that
thinks Holmes beats everyone in his prime :)

Robinson wrote:Agreed...but im one of those biased type that
thinks Holmes beats everyone in his prime :)

There are about five or six heavyweight fighters who could beat any other heavyweight fiighters including the other four or five and Holmes is one of them...

Robinson wrote:Agreed...but im one of those biased type that
thinks Holmes beats everyone in his prime :)

Wow I thought I was the only one that thought this

No brother Grimm...we may walk in the shadows
but we do exist.

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:

Robinson wrote:His technique also stayed pretty solid at a late age
also. But he always maintained his jab pretty well.
Its ashame that he never let it really go that well in
1988 against Tyson.

I thought he was moving rather well in that fight until Tyson nailed him... I think Larry beats him in his prime...

If you watch the replay of the bout, Holmes got his hand caught in the rope right before the KO came.

he was looking for the right uppercut...gets caught
in the ropes and whack....though he was in trouble
at that stage anyhow.

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:

Robinson wrote:Agreed...but im one of those biased type that
thinks Holmes beats everyone in his prime :)

There are about five or six heavyweight fighters who could beat any other heavyweight fiighters including the other four or five and Holmes is one of them...

This is brilliantly vague.

Robinson wrote:Agreed...but im one of those biased type that
thinks Holmes beats everyone in his prime :)

And yet a 34 year old Norton almost beat him. Weaver and Snipes almost knocked him out. Imagine if Louis or Foreman or Tyson hit him that way; would they let him off the hook?

I Feel Fine wrote:

Robinson wrote:Agreed...but im one of those biased type that
thinks Holmes beats everyone in his prime :)

And yet a 34 year old Norton almost beat him. Weaver and Snipes almost knocked him out. Imagine if Louis or Foreman or Tyson hit him that way; would they let him off the hook?

Norton did not almost beat him.....Doug Jones almost beat Ali.

Henry Cooper almost KO'd Ali so did Sonny Banks....
Buddy Baer and Tony Galento almost KO'd Joe Louis....

Imagine if a Tyson or Lewis hit a Ali or Louis. Would they let
them recover ? Would a George Foreman against Joe Louis...?

Do I think Tyson at 21 would beat Clay at 21? Yes, I would favor him, and over a 21 year old Holmes as well. I would also favor a 21 year old Clay to beat a 21 year old Holmes. Do I think Tyson would beat Ali at his best? No. Nor would Holmes, though I would favor Holmes at his best to beat Tyson. That said, do I think that Holmes was at his best when he fought Norton? Yes. Did a 34 year old Norton almost beat him? Yes, almost. Would a 34 year old Holmes have beaten Norton in his prime? No, probably not. Would Holmes at his best beat Norton at his best? I don't know. Would Ali at his best beat Norton? Yes, he beat him even when he wasn't. And lastly, should we be trying to compare Holmes' chin to Ali's? No way.

I dont think the Holmes-Norton fight was as close as it
has been made out to be. I think Holmes was in better
condition than Norton and was 'fresher', that being said
I do not think that the 'peak' Norton beats Holmes.

I think both Holmes and Ali have a superb chin, both have
demonstrated excellent recuperative abilities. Ali possibly
has the best ability to recover from a flush hard shot than
nearly any other man ever. Holmes is not lacking in this
department either.

I think the younger Ali would struggle against a Norton,
but I think his young legs and speed would carry him to
a more convincing win.

I agree with your second and third points. But I do think Holmes-Norton was close. But, as I said in the past, I do think Holmes won.

It's impossible for me to opine how a Holmes-Ali fight goes because I am hopelessly biased...I think it would be a cautious fight that ends up in a decision...

Who do you see beating Ali in a prime for prime match
up TOIH2008 ?

Robinson wrote:Who do you see beating Ali in a prime for prime match
up TOIH2008 ?

I'm biased...

Neither Holmes or Ali usually took the lead...The fighter that forces the other fighter to take the lead would win...

Robinson wrote:Who do you see beating Ali in a prime for prime match
up TOIH2008 ?

I thought this fella did a great job:

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/heavyweightchart.html

A couple of posters ripped his work...If it's so flawed I'd like to see where...

Looks like the guy just played TBC or an equivalent...

Robinson wrote:Looks like the guy just played TBC or an equivalent...

What's TBC?

Out of the park developtments boxing simulator.

Google it...

TBC II is a pretty good game.

Those numbers he is using seems to be for that
game and how the fighters are worked out...
thats all it looks like he has done.

Robinson wrote:Out of the park developtments boxing simulator.

Google it...

TBC II is a pretty good game.

Those numbers he is using seems to be for that
game and how the fighters are worked out...
thats all it looks like he has done.

TY

Long ago, when I was firmly convinced that both Liston-Ali bouts were fixed, I said that a prime Liston would have the best chance of beating Ali. Liston didn't take Clay seriously the first time, and in the second bout, he peaked in training, only to have the match rescheduled. I still think Liston would've had a good chance if he'd been the challenger and Ali the champion. I still think Ali won because he was mentally stronger, fix or no fix.

I think Holmes purposely held back the jab against Tyson as he sort of double guessed that Tyson would be waiting for it, so he could slip within reach and counter.