BoxRec

Wow, I can't imagine witnessing that... That's how Dr. Ferdie Pacheco opens his book , Blood In My Coffee...He was doing commentary on the fight and left his seat to help as there was no physician available but he knew it was too late...The boxer died in his arms or was already brain dead when he made it to the ring...

Ignore everything Pacheco says. The boxer fought, the boxer died. Pacheco was looking at himself in his compact while it happened.

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:Wow, I can't imagine witnessing that... That's how Dr. Ferdie Pacheco opens his book , Blood In My Coffee...He was doing commentary on the fight and left his seat to help as there was no physician available but he knew it was too late...The boxer died in his arms or was already brain dead when he made it to the ring...

i read somewhere that theoneishere once killed a load of threads on boxrec with stupid questions 'hey isnt boxing bad..its like hitting people' or i heard marvin hagler once hit someone with a padded glove surely thats cheating'

funso banjo baby wrote:

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:Wow, I can't imagine witnessing that... That's how Dr. Ferdie Pacheco opens his book , Blood In My Coffee...He was doing commentary on the fight and left his seat to help as there was no physician available but he knew it was too late...The boxer died in his arms or was already brain dead when he made it to the ring...

i read somewhere that theoneishere once killed a load of threads on boxrec with stupid questions 'hey isnt boxing bad..its like hitting people' or i heard marvin hagler once hit someone with a padded glove surely thats cheating'

You drew the incorrect inference, my friend, as even a cursory review of my posts amply demonstrate...

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:

funso banjo baby wrote:

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:Wow, I can't imagine witnessing that... That's how Dr. Ferdie Pacheco opens his book , Blood In My Coffee...He was doing commentary on the fight and left his seat to help as there was no physician available but he knew it was too late...The boxer died in his arms or was already brain dead when he made it to the ring...

i read somewhere that theoneishere once killed a load of threads on boxrec with stupid questions 'hey isnt boxing bad..its like hitting people' or i heard marvin hagler once hit someone with a padded glove surely thats cheating'

You drew the incorrect inference, my friend, as even a cursory review of my posts amply demonstrate...

no

...ive just read another about liston and his corner spraying anthrax over all his opps from 1958 to 63


or sumfink like that

That was Bert Sugar...I forgot how to do a perfect citation but it's on page 384 of Muhammad Ali-Through The Eyes Of The World. Again, my friend, you draw the incorrect inference... The linament incident and the death incident speak more to the personalities of Mr.'s Sugar , Pacheco, and Liston then they do to the sport of boxing...

...ive just read another about liston and his corner spraying anthrax over all his opps from 1958 to 63

-funso banjo baby

And hyperbole can be a powerful form of rhetoric; when done correctly...

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:Wow, I can't imagine witnessing that... That's how Dr. Ferdie Pacheco opens his book , Blood In My Coffee...He was doing commentary on the fight and left his seat to help as there was no physician available but he knew it was too late...The boxer died in his arms or was already brain dead when he made it to the ring...

http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Human:48664

Denny died of injuries sustained in a bout with Gaetan Hart in Montreal, QC, Canada. This bout was on the undercard of the first Sugar Ray Leonard-Roberto Duran bout.

Asterix wrote:

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:Wow, I can't imagine witnessing that... That's how Dr. Ferdie Pacheco opens his book , Blood In My Coffee...He was doing commentary on the fight and left his seat to help as there was no physician available but he knew it was too late...The boxer died in his arms or was already brain dead when he made it to the ring...

http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Human:48664

Denny died of injuries sustained in a bout with Gaetan Hart in Montreal, QC, Canada. This bout was on the undercard of the first Sugar Ray Leonard-Roberto Duran bout.

According to Pacheco there was a lot of emnity between the two boxers and Denny had taken a beating in his most recent matches...Pacheco's argument was that the injury was a result of cumulative injuries and not just the current one...

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:

Asterix wrote:

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:Wow, I can't imagine witnessing that... That's how Dr. Ferdie Pacheco opens his book , Blood In My Coffee...He was doing commentary on the fight and left his seat to help as there was no physician available but he knew it was too late...The boxer died in his arms or was already brain dead when he made it to the ring...

http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Human:48664

Denny died of injuries sustained in a bout with Gaetan Hart in Montreal, QC, Canada. This bout was on the undercard of the first Sugar Ray Leonard-Roberto Duran bout.

According to Pacheco there was a lot of emnity between the two boxers and Denny had taken a beating in his most recent matches...Pacheco's argument was that the injury was a result of cumulative injuries and not just the current one...

I don't have newspaper accounts of what happened in the ring when collapsed, but I find it hard to believe that the Canadian boxing authorities did not have a physician at ringside, and that Ferdie Pacheco had to rush into the ring to try and save the poor boy's life only to have him die in his arms. (Didn't Denny die a week or so later?)

This is also the same guy who claims Dempsey held a small iron rod in his hand when Dempsey knocked out Willard, and that Jack Kearns showed him (Pacheco) a film of the Willard fight to prove it.

In a sort of HW debate with Tyson, Harry Carpenter claimed that Jess Willard showed him a an iron bolt that he believed Dempsey held in his fist during that fight. Carpenter says that Willard found it on the canvas and kept it as evidence.

Neither Mike or Harry believed the story but Carpenter was sure that Willard believed it.

Pacheco claimed that it was a railroad spike in a hideous book he produced a few years ago. Of course, Dempsey later floored another huge man over and over but Pacheco conveniently overlooks the fact.

I think he died athe hospital...Pacheco said he was brain dead, that his mouth involuntarily closed and there was no way they were going to pry it open... Pacheco said the doctor was somewhere in the building getting a hot dog...

Pacheco doesn't seem like a bad fella...He had a clinic in Overtown which is one of Miami's poorest sections...He also worked for Ali for free...

He left the Ali circus after the Shavers fight because he knew Ali was done and was only endangering himself by getting back in the ring...

But he is benefitting now on his association ...

Ezzard wrote:In a sort of HW debate with Tyson, Harry Carpenter claimed that Jess Willard showed him a an iron bolt that he believed Dempsey held in his fist during that fight. Carpenter says that Willard found it on the canvas and kept it as evidence.

Neither Mike or Harry believed the story but Carpenter was sure that Willard believed it.

Yeah, sure, that makes sense, Jess Willard, his facial bones fractured and his head swollen like a watermellon is gonna be out there searching around the ring for a metal bolt after the right. Well that explains that!!

Besides, how did he find it - didn't Pacheco says that, in the mysterious film shown to him by Kearns, somebody kicked the bolt or spike out of the ring following the first round after Dempsey surreptitiously let it fall from his hand to the canvas?

raylawpc wrote:

Ezzard wrote:In a sort of HW debate with Tyson, Harry Carpenter claimed that Jess Willard showed him a an iron bolt that he believed Dempsey held in his fist during that fight. Carpenter says that Willard found it on the canvas and kept it as evidence.

Neither Mike or Harry believed the story but Carpenter was sure that Willard believed it.

Yeah, sure, that makes sense, Jess Willard, his facial bones fractured and his head swollen like a watermellon is gonna be out there searching around the ring for a metal bolt after the right. Well that explains that!!

Besides, how did he find it - didn't Pacheco says that, in the mysterious film shown to him by Kearns, somebody kicked the bolt or spike out of the ring following the first round after Dempsey surreptitiously let it fall from his hand to the canvas?

That seems like something out of professional wrestling where the heel brings a "foreign object" into the ring...

Wrestling announcer- "Ivan Koloff has brought a foreign object into the ring."

raylawpc wrote:

Ezzard wrote:In a sort of HW debate with Tyson, Harry Carpenter claimed that Jess Willard showed him a an iron bolt that he believed Dempsey held in his fist during that fight. Carpenter says that Willard found it on the canvas and kept it as evidence.

Neither Mike or Harry believed the story but Carpenter was sure that Willard believed it.

Yeah, sure, that makes sense, Jess Willard, his facial bones fractured and his head swollen like a watermellon is gonna be out there searching around the ring for a metal bolt after the right. Well that explains that!!

Besides, how did he find it - didn't Pacheco says that, in the mysterious film shown to him by Kearns, somebody kicked the bolt or spike out of the ring following the first round after Dempsey surreptitiously let it fall from his hand to the canvas?

But why let logic get in the way of a great conspiracy story?

The Pacheco story sounds worse. A secret film?

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:That was Bert Sugar...I forgot how to do a perfect citation but it's on page 384 of Muhammad Ali-Through The Eyes Of The World. Again, my friend, you draw the incorrect inference... The linament incident and the death incident speak more to the personalities of Mr.'s Sugar , Pacheco, and Liston then they do to the sport of boxing...

...ive just read another about liston and his corner spraying anthrax over all his opps from 1958 to 63

-funso banjo baby

And hyperbole can be a powerful form of rhetoric; when done correctly...

dont talk to me about hyperbollocks

Ezzard wrote:

raylawpc wrote:

Ezzard wrote:In a sort of HW debate with Tyson, Harry Carpenter claimed that Jess Willard showed him a an iron bolt that he believed Dempsey held in his fist during that fight. Carpenter says that Willard found it on the canvas and kept it as evidence.

Neither Mike or Harry believed the story but Carpenter was sure that Willard believed it.

Yeah, sure, that makes sense, Jess Willard, his facial bones fractured and his head swollen like a watermellon is gonna be out there searching around the ring for a metal bolt after the right. Well that explains that!!

Besides, how did he find it - didn't Pacheco says that, in the mysterious film shown to him by Kearns, somebody kicked the bolt or spike out of the ring following the first round after Dempsey surreptitiously let it fall from his hand to the canvas?

But why let logic get in the way of a great conspiracy story?

The Pacheco story sounds worse. A secret film?

Apparently.

I start by saying I don't have the Pacheco book, and don't remember the title. But it was a collection of stories about boxing written by Pacheco. I read the Willard-Dempsey chapter at Border's, and put it back on the shelf. I decided not to buy it after reading that tale. Maybe somebody on the forum has it.

But if memory serves, Pacheco claimed that Doc Kearns showed him and a small group of other people (he didn't name any names, if I recall), a film of the Dempsey-Willard fight. At the end of the first round, the film supposedly showed Dempsey dropping something from his glove onto the canvas and somebody (I think Kearns), brushed it out of the ring with his foot. According to Pacheco, Kearns told those assembled that it was an metal bar or spike of some kind.

Anything can be true, but it sounds very odd to me. the egos of some people to commit something like that to print...

The main thing is why didn't anyone else come forward?

When you look at Dempsey's KO record he must have had a lot of these spikes and bolts...

If I remember correctly Dempsey said Kearns claimed that nonsense after they had a professional falling out.Bottom line is Willard was old,inactive,and in less than stellar shape.Dempsey was a young,hungry lion.

pete wrote:If I remember correctly Dempsey said Kearns claimed that nonsense after they had a professional falling out.Bottom line is Willard was old,inactive,and in less than stellar shape.Dempsey was a young,hungry lion.

Yeah, that's what Dempsey said regarding the plaster of paris on his handwraps. I think this is something new. I don't remember Kearns ever talking about a piece of metal until Pacheco brought it up.