BoxRec

Any thoughts on this?
(By world champ I mean WBC, WBA, IBF, WBO)

I'm going for Herol Graham, with honourable mentions for:

Henry Wharton (granite chin, punched like a mule, great division, poor work rate)
Billy Schwer (good division, susceptible to cuts)
Michael Ayers (got his one shot too early)
Danny Williams (always in with a shout in average division)
Nicky Piper (ran out of gas when beating Leonzer Barber)
Billy hardy (pushed Orlando Canizales close)

Pat Barrett (fought for the world title in the wrong division)
Dean Francis (injuries to his shoulder)
Mark Prince (fought one of the best, retired early from boxing)

Crawford Ashley had his shot against a prime Micheal Nunn
And Holligan had to go to Mexico to fight Chavez

Colin Jones. Faced a peak Curry and was woefully unlucky twice against McCrory. And he had two cracking come from behind wins against Kirkland Laing.

One tough dude with skills.

He's not last 20 years is he? Think he'd retired by '86.

Sorry.

Coco wrote:Crawford Ashley had his shot against a prime Micheal Nunn
And Holligan had to go to Mexico to fight Chavez

Didn't Team Nunn use some weigh in trickery, that made Ashley have to lose too much weight. Or something. Super middle was a bit too small for Ashley, IMO. I think he was a natural light heavy, and he did much better vs Virgl Hill.


I go for Francis as the best Brit never to have won a world title, in the past 20 yrs. He has more classy moves than the average Brit who wins/contests a world title, he has just proven his staying power, and he's always had some impressive power.

Floyd Havard was unlucky with hand injuries, he could have won a version of a title.
Fought John John Molina for IBF title, and that was a very good version of Molina.

We're all forgetting a pretty obvious one - Howard Eastman!
Didn't show enough ambition vs. Joppy, otherwise he'd have won.

Eastman is definitely the most frustrating boxer of the last 20 years!

I think Graham is a fair shout

not saying he's THE best but Neil Sinclair is very good and had Daniel Santos on his backside in th efirst round for World Title befor getting stopped in second.

Graham for me though.

This has actually got me thinking that there's more pretty average british fighters who win world titles (especially WBO) than good ones who don't. (other than Graham & Wharton, I was scraping the barrel with my initial list)
The following all won "big 4" titles:
Michael Bentt
Herbie Hide
Robbie Regan
Barrie Jones
Glenn Catley
Richie Woodhall (possibly a bit harsh)
Gavin Rees
Paul "Silky" Jones
Paul Weir

I'm sure there's more

I'd say Howard Eastmen could have been champion, he should have beat Hopkins, he banged him up a couple of times, once in particular and yet never followed up the whole fight, he let himself down - similar to Kessler's performance against Joe.

I don't understand Graham's mystic, so he didn't get a fight with Benn or Eubank & company, but he did get his chance at 4 big fights and lost them all, Jackson was the best & biggest name the rest all great fighters but not legends that he should be given immortality for... Benn & co beat him aswell!

Michael Brodie. Should have been champ but for Jorrin decision.

I see the Ballogou fight, as the equivalent to Haye losing to Thompson. Looked like a stamina problem would hold Francis back. But I think he learned to stay in shape & to pace himself.

Didn't Francis have a bit of an eating disorder back in the day? Not to Toney extremes. But he used to say "Just thinking about dieting makes me hungry", something like that.

Yeah, with the comeback, I like his performances from the 2nd Rasani onward. He didn't look sharp v Bonson, and you could see him recovering the sharpness, late on vs Rasani 1. By Rasani 2, he was very sharp.

The left hand work is great, I agree. Especially vs Ayittey Powers. The uppercuts and body shots worked a treat. That's a world class left hand. Imagine if his left shoulder had been injured, instead of the right. He wouldn't be boxing now, IMO.

Francis for me too. In his peak I'd had him to beat Calzaghe.

jimglen wrote:I'd say Howard Eastmen could have been champion, he should have beat Hopkins, he banged him up a couple of times, once in particular and yet never followed up the whole fight, he let himself down - similar to Kessler's performance against Joe.

I don't understand Graham's mystic, so he didn't get a fight with Benn or Eubank & company, but he did get his chance at 4 big fights and lost them all, Jackson was the best & biggest name the rest all great fighters but not legends that he should be given immortality for... Benn & co beat him aswell!

McCallum was a far better fighter than Jackson. Mike had terrific all round skills, a granite chin and a fair bit of power, whereas Jackson was the ultimate chinny banger (albeit a very good one).

"The Bodysnatcher" is really underrated in the ATG stakes - even when he was old and fat he was one of the best LHW's in the world.

teddy007 wrote:

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:Francis for me too. In his peak I'd had him to beat Calzaghe.

Yeah he was good but not that good.

JC done Francis first round in the ABA's

I'd say Howard Eastmen could have been champion, he should have beat Hopkins, he banged him up a couple of times, once in particular and yet never followed up the whole fight, he let himself down - similar to Kessler's performance against Joe.

Not sure I saw it that way, Kessler had a real go at Calzaghe, landing some great shots and was beaten in a close one. Eastman spent the doing nothing after he found Hopkins to be much quicker than he was, constantly (hard thing to say in a fight of such little action) beaten to the punch whenever he tried to throw. Knew he wasn't good enough, knew he couldn't throw the combinations needed and I don't think he expected Hopkins to hit as hard as he did.

And I also don't get the big controversy over Brodie v Jorin, although I would put Mike up there with Graham in this list.

I think before the should Injuries In the late 90's, that Francis could of won a WBC title when It was constantly changing champs. Reckon Calzaghe would of outworked him on points back then.

JC done Francis first round in the ABA's[/quote]

Was it actually knockout or a bullshit rsc that you get a lot of in the amateurs?[/quote]

I didn't see it but apparently it was a conclusive stoppage, Francis dropped etc, rather than being knocked out.
In those days, 15 odd years ago it was much harder to force a stoppage than now, esp in in the later rounds of the ABA's

Coco wrote:JC done Francis first round in the ABA's

Was it actually knockout or a bullshit rsc that you get a lot of in the amateurs?[/quote]

I didn't see it but apparently it was a conclusive stoppage, Francis dropped etc, rather than being knocked out.
In those days, 15 odd years ago it was much harder to force a stoppage than now, esp in in the later rounds of the ABA's[/quote]

Calzaghe beat Glenn Catley by stoppage in the final as well that year. Joe beat another titlist in Jason Matthews.
And Joe has beaten a heavyweight champion in Chris Byrd

Yeah but Francis didn't fully mature until the pros - physically, mentally, tactically - until after the Ballogou fight in fact. I'd venture to say that he never even reached his peak years.

Stoppages of Baker, Seillier, Carr & Starie are probably up there with the first couple of years of Joe WBO title defences in terms of class.

Calzaghe's pace would have been hard to handle. However, Joe was very crude back then and I could see him having his head snapped back time and time again.

Probably would have been the Benn v Eubank of the satellite TV era of British boxing.

Old bones Ian wrote:

Coco wrote:JC done Francis first round in the ABA's

Was it actually knockout or a bullshit rsc that you get a lot of in the amateurs?

I didn't see it but apparently it was a conclusive stoppage, Francis dropped etc, rather than being knocked out.
In those days, 15 odd years ago it was much harder to force a stoppage than now, esp in in the later rounds of the ABA's[/quote]

Calzaghe beat Glenn Catley by stoppage in the final as well that year. Joe beat another titlist in Jason Matthews.
And Joe has beaten a heavyweight champion in Chris Byrd[/quote]


He actually stopped Chris Byrd

I don't understand Graham's mystic, so he didn't get a fight with Benn or Eubank & company, but he did get his chance at 4 big fights and lost them all, Jackson was the best & biggest name the rest all great fighters but not legends that he should be given immortality for... Benn & co beat him aswell!

That's oversimplifying things though.For one thing, he was a shot fighter when he fought Charles Brewer.

And Kalambay and McCallum were much better fighters than jackson.kalambay was the best middleweight in Europe for about five\six years and neither Benn, nor Eubank went anywhere near him.Suddenly the traditional route to a world title was abandoned for WBO bullshit.