Page 1 of 1

Jimmy Young Revisited

Posted: 01 Aug 2008, 15:05
by TheOneIsHere2008
A challenger is not given a champion's title. He must take that title, preferably with his hands, but with a ring post if necessary. Young never has been a positive fighter, and he was far from it against Ali . He is a fighter of slight craft with a few cute moves. On the attack, his jab is a trifle, his punching of no account. On defense, caution marks his every move, his eyes are always on the exit doors. As the old wheeze goes, Young is a fighter without bad intentions. He is also not a Philadelphia fighter, that primordial strain of workmen who have left a wake of blood and upsets in the ring; Philadelphia fighters know how to take titles.

For the most part, Young was a passive figure against Ali . On six occasions he ducked outside of the ropes and stayed there like a man looking out a window. It was not accidental. He was not slipping a punch. It was unconscionable behavior for a man who wants the heavyweight championship of the world. According to Maryland ring rules, Young should have been censured for this action; it is called a "stand-up knockdown." He was given a two count once. The rest of the time he was allowed to take the rarefied air of the $200 ringside. Ali eventually became so frustrated that he began leaning over the ropes to bang him on top of his head. Heroes do not do this sort of thing, and Young—though clearly wrong—won sympathy.


The scoring came, and so did more boos. The referee called it 10-3-2 for Ali , one judge saw it 7-5-3 for Ali and the other one gave it to him, 11-4. Despite the way their rounds were broken down—one judge didn't give Young a round until the 11th—the decision was correct. There was no way anyone could justify taking the title from Ali ; Young had had his own vote, but he had chosen to abstain. Public sympathy now leans toward Young, but when it is dissected it is really only an emotional response to a champion who toyed with the sensibilities of the crowd and its intelligence, a champion who was not prepared to fight the way he could and should. Ali can play the philosopher in fool's rags and be believed, he can utter ridiculous and dumb things and be applauded for them, yet when he steps into a ring for $1.6 million, he owes it to himself and his position to be worth every cent of it, or else he can no longer talk of dignity—for anybody.



http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ ... /index.htm

Re: Jimmy Young Revisited

Posted: 01 Aug 2008, 16:33
by granberry
Jimmy Young gave Ali a BOXING LESSON.

That is why Jimmy Young is so hated by members of The Religion of Ali.

Mention Jimmy Young and you will an absolutely frantic reaction from Worshippers of Ali.

TheOne's (collins') posting here is another example of that.

No matter how rabidly members of the Religion post,

they cannot change the fact that Jimmy Young gave Ali a boxing lesson for all to see.

Re: Jimmy Young Revisited

Posted: 01 Aug 2008, 16:48
by granberry
Members of The Religion of Ali definitely become very "disturbed"

when they come across someone who does not grovel for their Ali as they do.

Lester Bromberg scored the Young-Ali fight 11 rounds for Young, 4 rounds for Ali.

Re: Jimmy Young Revisited

Posted: 01 Aug 2008, 16:56
by granberry
Dick Young scored the fight 10 rounds for Young, 5 rounds for Ali.

Dick Young pointed out that the 20-25 body punches alone that Young landed every rounds won him the fight on points.

Re: Jimmy Young Revisited

Posted: 01 Aug 2008, 17:06
by TheOneIsHere2008
granberry wrote:Dick Young scored the fight 10 rounds for Young, 5 rounds for Ali.

Dick Young pointed out that the 20-25 body punches alone that Young landed every rounds won him the fight on points.

Another rabid Ali hater who predicted his doom against Liston...A pathetic group of old men , caught up in the fifties ...

Young took to invoking "My America," which was as much a state of mind as a location. From Young's America, the writer decried the majority of contemporary athletes and events. Certain athletes won Young over with their soft-spokenness or work ethic, like boxers Joe Frazier and Ken Norton. He had no tolerance for the brash new style of sports star such as Muhammad Ali or Joe Namath, who became his targets.

in 1986, boxer Larry Holmes had Young ejected from one of his workouts.


How abouit citing an unbiased source ?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Young ... swriter%29



And as a New Yorker and Mets fan he was a real dick:


Tom Seaver feud
Most notoriously, Young engaged in a public feud with New York Mets pitcher Tom Seaver, which contributed to one of the turning points in Mets history. After free agency came to baseball, Seaver publicly complained that Mets owner M. Donald Grant made no effort to sign any of the available players. Seaver was also renegotiating his own contract, and Grant portrayed his star pitcher as being motivated by money. Grant's most enthusiastic supporter in the press was Young, who wrote a series of blistering columns about Seaver, culminating on June 15, 1977. "In a way," Young wrote, "Tom Seaver is like Walter O'Malley. Both are very good at what they do. Both are very deceptive in what they say. Both are very greedy."

But it was a paragraph later in the piece that genuinely enraged Seaver:

"Nolan Ryan is getting more [salary] now than Seaver, and that galls Tom because Nancy Seaver and Ruth Ryan are very friendly and Tom Seaver long has treated Nolan Ryan like a little brother."
Seaver and the Mets had only just agreed on a contract extension the previous night, but following the column, Seaver informed the Mets that the deal was off and that he was insistent on being traded out of New York.

"That Young column was the straw that broke the back," Seaver said in 2007. "Bringing your family into it, with no truth whatsoever to what he wrote. I could not abide that. I had to go." Seaver was traded to the Cincinnati Reds later the same day. When Young was subsequently introduced for his Hall of Fame induction in Cooperstown, New York, he was heavily booed by the fans.[14]

In 1981, four years after vilifying Seaver for renegotiating his existing contract with the Mets, Young broke his own contract with the Daily News and jumped to the crosstown Post, where he remained until his death six years later. The News filed a breach of contract suit against Young, which was eventually dismissed.

Re: Jimmy Young Revisited

Posted: 01 Aug 2008, 18:46
by raylawpc
TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:
granberry wrote:Members of The Religion of Ali definitely become very "disturbed"

when they come across someone who does not grovel for their Ali as they do.

Lester Bromberg scored the Young-Ali fight 11 rounds for Young, 4 rounds for Ali.

Maybe collins and TheOne could try to get him "banned" for scoring the fight that way.

LOL
Is that the old fart who said Liston would drop Ali in one?
An unfair characterization of Lester Bromberg in my opinion. Although I may disagree with his scoring of Ali-Young (if he indeed called it 11-4 for Young - I've never personally seen Bromberg's scorecard), I believe Lester Bromberg was a good and insightful boxing writer. I note that he is also an inductee of the IBHOF.

Many expected Liston to dispose of Ali with ease. As I recall, Joe Nichols of the New York Times was one who didn't bother to cover the bout because he thought it would be a mismatch.

Re: Jimmy Young Revisited

Posted: 01 Aug 2008, 18:56
by TheOneIsHere2008
raylawpc wrote:
TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:
granberry wrote:Members of The Religion of Ali definitely become very "disturbed"

when they come across someone who does not grovel for their Ali as they do.

Lester Bromberg scored the Young-Ali fight 11 rounds for Young, 4 rounds for Ali.

Maybe collins and TheOne could try to get him "banned" for scoring the fight that way.

LOL
Is that the old fart who said Liston would drop Ali in one?

An unfair characterization of Lester Bromberg in my opinion. Although I may disagree with his scoring of Ali-Young (if he indeed called it 11-4 for Young - I've never personally seen Bromberg's scorecard), I believe Lester Bromberg was a good and insightful boxing writer. I note that he is also an inductee of the IBHOF.

Many expected Liston to dispose of Ali with ease. As I recall, Joe Nichols of the New York Times was one who didn't bother to cover the bout because he thought it would be a mismatch.
Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus...

I give no quarter in my battle against granberry and his coterie of fellow revisionists...The heavyweight title rarely changes hands on a decision and it wasn't going to change hands when one of the combatants repeatedly ran out of the ring...

Extremism in the pursuit of truth is no vice and passivity in the face of lies is no virtue...


P.S. There was a factual claim made in this thread, ergo:


1) Young landed between three hundred and three hundred seventy five body punches

I'd like a citation...


His ipse dixit arguments are tiring...It seems the only fights that granmama thinks are legit are the fights where he liked the outcome...According to granmama

Leonard-Duran ll

Cooney-Young

Ali-Liston l

Ali-Liston ll

Ali-Spinks ll

Ali-Frazier lll

were fixed...

Anybody who thinks that many fights were fixed and still watches boxing is a fool...He or she should stick to the WWE...

Re: Jimmy Young Revisited

Posted: 01 Aug 2008, 20:32
by BoxBuzz
...this is your moderator speaking.....today the subject matter is Jimmy Young and we hope you enjoy the discussion. If you look out of the left cabin windows you will see granberry hanging off of the left wing throwing what appears to be fecal matter at the cabin. At this time we would like to remind you that in each of your seats is a control system with an "ignore" feature conveniently located for your consideration. We hope you feel free to use it when those who are not allowed inside with the civil folks begin annoying or distracting. Have a nice day and thank you for flying "BoxRec".

Re: Jimmy Young Revisited

Posted: 01 Aug 2008, 22:21
by raylawpc
TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:
raylawpc wrote:
TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:
Is that the old fart who said Liston would drop Ali in one?

An unfair characterization of Lester Bromberg in my opinion. Although I may disagree with his scoring of Ali-Young (if he indeed called it 11-4 for Young - I've never personally seen Bromberg's scorecard), I believe Lester Bromberg was a good and insightful boxing writer. I note that he is also an inductee of the IBHOF.

Many expected Liston to dispose of Ali with ease. As I recall, Joe Nichols of the New York Times was one who didn't bother to cover the bout because he thought it would be a mismatch.
Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus...

I give no quarter in my battle against granberry and his coterie of fellow revisionists...The heavyweight title rarely changes hands on a decision and it wasn't going to change hands when one of the combatants repeatedly ran out of the ring...

Extremism in the pursuit of truth is no vice and passivity in the face of lies is no virtue...


P.S. There was a factual claim made in this thread, ergo:


1) Young landed between three hundred and three hundred seventy five body punches

I'd like a citation...


His ipse dixit arguments are tiring...It seems the only fights that granmama thinks are legit are the fights where he liked the outcome...According to granmama

Leonard-Duran ll

Cooney-Young

Ali-Liston l

Ali-Liston ll

Ali-Spinks ll

Ali-Frazier lll

were fixed...

Anybody who thinks that many fights were fixed and still watches boxing is a fool...He or she should stick to the WWE...
I prefer my sainted Mother's favorite saying: "Two wrongs don't make a right."