BoxRec

Hello. As I've said before, I am new here and don't really know what has been discussed before, so apologies if this topic is a duplication.

Both of these were world champions, one boxing the other karate, at middleweight. Arguably they are the greatest middleweight champions ever in their respective sport.

If they fought in the ring with gloves, and Norris could use the full repetoire of his karate skills (kicks etc), who would win?

I am trying to be a martial artist at the moment, but have pugilism in the family line. Not me, I can't fight my way out of a wet paper bag but both sports have always interested me.

I think the world class boxer beats the world class martial artist. I think Monzon KO2 over Norris.

When I was a kid people asked could Bruce Lee have beaten Muhammad Ali. I dont think so for one moment, the little fellow would have been kayoed in 1 I think.

Interested in your thoughts.

I agree with both your picks.

I have experience in both endeavors.
Boxed pro and have two blackbelts.(Judo and Japanese JuJutsu).
Your picks are correct.
Bruce Lees theories were good.Crosstraining , conditioning, diet etc.
He was an actor though and not a fighter.

Expug wrote:I have experience in both endeavors.
Boxed pro and have two blackbelts.(Judo and Japanese JuJutsu).
Your picks are correct.
Bruce Lees theories were good.Crosstraining , conditioning, diet etc.
He was an actor though and not a fighter.

Not saying that Bruce Lee would beat Ali or vice versa, but you should really read up on bruce lee before you call him just an actor.

Whod he ever fight other than maybe some street fights which I dont count.
He was a real good athlete, and a good martial artist maybe a great martial artist.But there is no solid proof of any documented tournament victories or am or pro bouts.
There was a amateur boxing school tourny that he was said to have won in Hong Kong.Its a bit sketchy though.There was a studio fight with another Kung Fu practitioner that encouraged Lee to form Jeet Kune Do. Again thats almost of a street fight nature.
If your around Martial Arts for years, you will encounter many people who look fantastic doing certain routines, katas etc.
If a guy is going to be recognized as a great fighter , he has to prove it somewhere.
Not movies either.I respect Lee, but largely as a tremendous teacher and philosopher.

Norris' only chance would be low kicks, especially to the knees. On the street, who knows-groin attacks would favor the karate man.Any attacks aimed above the waist at an elite boxer would be fruitless.

I agree with Pug

Lee was a philospher and a guy that had
very open mind when every one else was
in love with 'styles'.

Fighting vs Martial Arts is like science vs Religion...
their are those who believe and those who do and
know.

Its that simple. I have waisted many years in the
martial arts, and I am doing my best to stay away
from the money making exploitation found in this
industry.

If you want to learn how to fight, look at how a
boxer punches, how a thai boxer kicks, a wrestler
takes down and controls, a BJJer submit, a greco
guy throw....what they do works because they
pressure test it every day...and anything redundant
is lost.

If it got into a punching match then obviously the obxer would win, but one clean kick to the head and it would be all over.

Not to mention how scary Norris is. The Boogie man looks under his bed for Norris before going to sleep.

hoodsyeahright wrote:Hello. As I've said before, I am new here and don't really know what has been discussed before, so apologies if this topic is a duplication.

Both of these were world champions, one boxing the other karate, at middleweight. Arguably they are the greatest middleweight champions ever in their respective sport.

If they fought in the ring with gloves, and Norris could use the full repetoire of his karate skills (kicks etc), who would win?

I am trying to be a martial artist at the moment, but have pugilism in the family line. Not me, I can't fight my way out of a wet paper bag but both sports have always interested me.

I think the world class boxer beats the world class martial artist. I think Monzon KO2 over Norris.

When I was a kid people asked could Bruce Lee have beaten Muhammad Ali. I dont think so for one moment, the little fellow would have been kayoed in 1 I think.

Interested in your thoughts.

Monzon was a great chmp, but certainly not the best ever at 160. Norris? Chuck wouldn't even climb ib the ring with a guy like Mozon, if he did, he'd be carried out on a stretcher. Carlos Monzon is a real fighter. How many full contact fights did you see Norris in? Or Bruce Lee? Lots of mystical crap surrounds Martial Arts, little actual fighting. Stick with boxing,, you may be a better fighter than you think.

pretty neat thread.

i like to imagine what would happen if bruce lee fought the lw version of roberto duran in mma.

chuck vs carlos.actually chuck's real name is carlos.carlos ray norris!...so,it's karate carlos vs boxer carlos.... 8)

i think,in mma,chuck norris in his prime at mw would beat monzon because chuck norris is a brown belt in judo and has obvious strong ground game from what i've observed.i have this really old tape where he spars with legendary ex marine karate champ danny lane.yes,i have no doubt that chuck had a very strong ground game or guard if you will.i think he'd take down monzon and make him submit with a joint lock.remember,chuck was in the military.airforce.airforce are really smart and intelligent.

in boxing,monzon would bust up norris en route to ref stoppage around round 7 or 8 i think.

in muay thai or pka full contact karate,norris would land the kicks to the midsection to wear out monzon and then set it all up for a finishing headkick around round 8 or 9.

i think Monzon is right up there as one of the best MW's ever.Chuck is one of the best MW's ever in full contact karate.plus,he always had a very strong ground game.you can just tell by watching missing in action II and some of the walker texas ranger episodes.And in "code of silence",that one scene where he starts going off on the kicking pad,is unforgettable.he looked really fast,sharp and powerfull even at the age of 45.prime norris?...a freakin killer.that's how my late dad described him.

bruce lee would be great against roberto duran in kickboxing.in mma it could go either way.i think duran would bust em up and submit em though,and in boxing,duran would bust em up and the ref would stop it around the 7th.bruce was quite a boxer but he was more the sh^t with the kicks and obviously the teaching,training and acting.

BigJuicyHog wrote:If it got into a punching match then obviously the obxer would win, but one clean kick to the head and it would be all over.

Not to mention how scary Norris is. The Boogie man looks under his bed for Norris before going to sleep.

Most Karate guys or even PKA guys like Norris dont kick that hard,
should he land on Monzon..so what ?

Most TMAers and kick boxers have next to no upper body movement
their heads are always there and are oh so easy to hit and counter
on...

What would Lee or Norris have in their 'primes' to beat Duran or
Monzon ? kicks ... so what....its not like they had thai leg kics
the crapy JKD knee strike...or sliding side kick...no sorry wrong,
its not going to happen.

When you do MA you do not train anywhere as near as hard as
you do when you are an upper level combat athlete. Apart from
the techniques and skills you possess, develop and have to
actually utilise, you also have attributes such as timing, power,
reaction etc relevant to combat/

Norris was a good karate fighter, but the level of comp and type
of comp that he fought in had a lot to be desired. Post Gracie-
Machado Norris is most likely better than his younger self.

Martial Artists and FC Karate guys have horrible head movement
and are not used to dealing with a good hard boxer...why do you
think they introduced the 8 kicks per round rule into FC karate ?
To prevent pure boxers from competing so they dont clean up.

Modern K-1 and MT is much more prepared for dealing iwth a
boxer (leg kicks) than those 1960s-1970s guys.

Do people honestly think Lee would tear up MMA or boxing as a
LW if you transported his 1972-73 into that situation..?
He made movies !!! He had some street fights..so has Russel
Crowe....

Lee's best contribution is that he created principles and concepts
un realised at that time by most TMAers. He was an innovator
and he rated combat sports and combat athletes very highly,
even mimicking their training regimes into his personal routines.

Norris is much the same, you can see this over the years as he
moved further away from his Tang Soo Do-Karate BG into a more
ecclectic approach..embracing kickboxing and BJJ as he became
exposed to these influences.

These men are innovators, but not elite fighters....regardless of
what Black Belt magazine writes.

Kym

I suppose boxers also are more used to being hit and taking a belting. You can be well down the road in martial arts but still not be really used to getting a full hit in the head. And I suppose you could become a martial arts champion without necessarily knowing if you can take a real hit.

Monzon took a good punch, but did/does Norris?

Monzon KO2.

and most TMAers...if not all just have no idea what to do
when they have been hit hard. Or to actually hit a moving
aggressive target.

I can not say this enough...a part time warrior...or untested
expert is never going to be able to deal with the athleticism
and saavy of a real fighter.

'A mariner never earned a reputation on a calm sea'. In martial
arts you dont need to do anything to get a reputation or
to be a grandmaster...you just need to do the same training
over and over for 20 odd years.

If Chuck Norris read this thread, he is gonna round house kick backwards until he opens a time warp. Then he is gonna go back and time and kick your moms in the stomach while she is pregnant with you so that this thread never happens.

Nah he'll most likely smile, die his moustache
and kick drugs out of America.

He could go back in time to 1977, find Mr Monzon, get into the ring with him, and getted knocked out in 2 rounds.

This fight would end in a KO, that is for sure...

Norris KO1

If he goes back in time too far, he may have to get into the ring with Stanley Ketchel...............

you don't say

Dont fvck with Chuck. He built the log cabin he was born in. They were going to put him on Mount Rushmore but the stone wasnt hard enough for his beard.

Good ole Chuck

He was good in BRS

Chuck could go the distance with Alan Minter.