BoxRec

Here's a little scenario just for fun. I have tinkered with dates and opponents names to come up with what I think is the most realistic representation of Rocky Balboa's boxing career. All opponents are real, and have been chosen for time accuracy, realism and similarity to the boxers in the films. After reading all the results, you must post your all-time top 10 heavyweights, and where (or if) Rocky Balboa fits in.

Rocky Balboa
Born: July 6 1955
Stance: Southpaw
Height: 5'11
Prime Weight: ranged from 190-210lb

Rocky Balboa turned pro in 1975, and by 1985 had amassed a record of 44 wins (38 by knockout), and 20 losses. His opponents were almost all from the Philadelphia club circuit, with no names of note. In 1985 he was offered a shot at Larry Holmes's IBF World Heavyweight title, due to Holmes's opponent, Michael Spinks pulling out through injury. The proposed fight was dismissed by most as an easy win for Holmes, but Balboa shocked the world by knocking Holmes down in the 1st round and making it to the end of the fight for a split decision loss.

21-9-85 Rocky Balboa LSD15 Larry Holmes
Holmes down in the 1st, Balboa down in the 1st and 14th.

A rematch with Holmes was wanted by the public, many of whom believed the first fight was a draw, a win to Balboa, or a fix. They got their wish in April of 1986, the fight again held in Philadelphia. This time Rocky was the victor, by knockout in the 15th round while Holmes was well ahead on points.

19-4-86 Rocky Balboa KO15 Larry Holmes
Balboa down several times early in the fight and in the 15th.
Balboa wins IBF Heavyweight Title

Over the next 3 years, Rocky Balboa unified the heavyweight division, defending his title 10 times.

6-9-86 Rocky Balboa TKO4 Steffan Tangstad
22-11-86 Rocky Balboa TKO2 Trevor Berbick (wins WBC Heavyweight Title)
7-3-87 Rocky Balboa KO12 James Smith (wins WBA Heavyweight Title, becomes unified champion)
30-5-87 Rocky Balboa TKO6 Pinklon Thomas
1-8-87 Rocky Balboa KO12 Tony Tucker
16-10-87 Rocky Balboa TKO7 Tyrell Biggs
22-1-88 Rocky Balboa TKO5 Frank Bruno
21-3-88 Rocky Balboa TKO2 Tony Tubbs
27-6-88 Rocky Balboa KO1 Michael Spinks
29-10-88 Rocky Balboa TKO5 Francesco Damiani

While doing this, there was one great heavyweight contender who Balboa had managed to avoid facing. His name was Mike Tyson. Balboa's management had done a good job of avoiding Tyson until this point, but by late 1988, Tyson was rated the No1 challenger by all the major governing bodies. Faced with the options of facing Tyson or being stripped of the titles, Balboa was urged to retire, which he did, albeit briefly. The fight was held in Madison Square Garden, where Balboa (coming in as slight favourite) was destroyed and knocked out by the younger, hungrier and more powerful Tyson.

25-2-89 Rocky Balboa LKO2 Mike Tyson
Balboa down in the 1st

Considering the one-sided nature of their fight, a rematch seemed unlikely, but Balboa wanted revenge and Tyson wanted no one to doubt who was the better fighter. The big underdog, Balboa seemed on his way to defeat after going down in the 2nd. He absorbed and avoided punishment for the next 5 minutes, as Tyson punched himself to exhaustion. With a series of power punches, Balboa knocked Tyson down in the 3rd, and the younger man was unable to beat the count.

21-7-89 Rocky Balboa KO3 Mike Tyson
Balboa down in the 2nd
Wins WBC, WBA and IBF Heavyweight Titles

Balboa retired a year after the Tyson victory. An eliminator for the title was held between Evander Holyfield and Buster Douglas, Holyfield winning. After a few defenses, Holyfield was beaten by the huge, undefeated Riddick Bowe. Seeking more glory, Bowe lured the Balboa out of retirement. The 37 year old, 3 1/2 year inactive, former champ was given little chance by many. It seemed the many were right, as Balboa absorbed a brutal beating and visited the canvas several times. Bowe, while winning easily early in the fight, suffered a bad cut, and steadily took more damage as the fight continued. With Bowe well ahead on points, Balboa rallied to knock the much bigger, younger man out at the end of the 12th round. Balboa retired immediately after the fight.

6-2-93 Rocky Balboa KO12 Riddick Bowe
Balboa down several times
Wins WBA and IBF Heavyweight Titles

Years later, with Balboa immortalised as an all-time great, the heavyweight division was in tatters. Ever since the retirement of Lennox Lewis there had never been a great champion, and people saw the current WBO and IBF champion, Wladimir Klitschko as being the best of a weak division. Despite wins over many top rated challengers, most believed that Klitschko would lose to most of the champions of old, Balboa included. This irritated Klitschko, whose management managed to lure Balboa out of retirement for a 10 round, non-title fight. The fight was held at Caesers Palace, and most expected to see an easy points win for Klitschko, who would not win fans by beating up on a 52 year old Balboa. As with most Balboa fights, it turned out to be a war, with Klitschko fighting with one hand for most of the fight, after breaking his right in the 2nd round. A younger Balboa surely would have finished Klitschko off, but this slower, older version was still able to inflict a beating, although losing the fight via a split decision.

07-07-2007 Rocky Balboa LSD10 Wladimir Klitschko
Balboa down twice, Klitschko down once

Rocky Balboa retired for good. His record reads

80 fights
57 wins (51 by knockout)
23 losses
3-time world champion
Record in world title fights: 13 (13 KO) wins, 2 losses (1 KO).


SO, WHERE DOES ROCKY BALBOA FIT IN YOUR ALL-TIME TOP 10?

adamheight wrote:http://forum.boxrec.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=88446

Lol after that enormous (albeit worryingly anoraky) effort, is that the best response you can come up with?

Jezza, loved reading the piece and the comparisions are quite eerily accurate.

I agree with Ollie, had he done all that he'd be top 5.

Wins over Holmes and Tyson are almost enough alone.

I feel sad responding and yet I must.

Balboa turned pro in the late 60s.

Were you wearing clothes when you did this ?

oliverfennell wrote:

adamheight wrote:http://forum.boxrec.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=88446

Lol after that enormous (albeit worryingly anoraky) effort, is that the best response you can come up with?

Jezza, loved reading the piece and the comparisions are quite eerily accurate.

i was at work and couldn't commit to such a lengthy debate but still wanted to contribute to the thread.

jezzamundo wrote:Here's a little scenario just for fun. I have tinkered with dates and opponents names to come up with what I think is the most realistic representation of Rocky Balboa's boxing career. All opponents are real, and have been chosen for time accuracy, realism and similarity to the boxers in the films. After reading all the results, you must post your all-time top 10 heavyweights, and where (or if) Rocky Balboa fits in.

Rocky Balboa
Born: July 6 1955
Stance: Southpaw
Height: 5'11
Prime Weight: ranged from 190-210lb

Rocky Balboa turned pro in 1975, and by 1985 had amassed a record of 44 wins (38 by knockout), and 20 losses. His opponents were almost all from the Philadelphia club circuit, with no names of note. In 1985 he was offered a shot at Larry Holmes's IBF World Heavyweight title, due to Holmes's opponent, Michael Spinks pulling out through injury. The proposed fight was dismissed by most as an easy win for Holmes, but Balboa shocked the world by knocking Holmes down in the 1st round and making it to the end of the fight for a split decision loss.

21-9-85 Rocky Balboa LSD15 Larry Holmes
Holmes down in the 1st, Balboa down in the 1st and 14th.

A rematch with Holmes was wanted by the public, many of whom believed the first fight was a draw, a win to Balboa, or a fix. They got their wish in April of 1986, the fight again held in Philadelphia. This time Rocky was the victor, by knockout in the 15th round while Holmes was well ahead on points.

19-4-86 Rocky Balboa KO15 Larry Holmes
Balboa down several times early in the fight and in the 15th.
Balboa wins IBF Heavyweight Title

Over the next 3 years, Rocky Balboa unified the heavyweight division, defending his title 10 times.

6-9-86 Rocky Balboa TKO4 Steffan Tangstad
22-11-86 Rocky Balboa TKO2 Trevor Berbick (wins WBC Heavyweight Title)
7-3-87 Rocky Balboa KO12 James Smith (wins WBA Heavyweight Title, becomes unified champion)
30-5-87 Rocky Balboa TKO6 Pinklon Thomas
1-8-87 Rocky Balboa KO12 Tony Tucker
16-10-87 Rocky Balboa TKO7 Tyrell Biggs
22-1-88 Rocky Balboa TKO5 Frank Bruno
21-3-88 Rocky Balboa TKO2 Tony Tubbs
27-6-88 Rocky Balboa KO1 Michael Spinks
29-10-88 Rocky Balboa TKO5 Francesco Damiani

While doing this, there was one great heavyweight contender who Balboa had managed to avoid facing. His name was Mike Tyson. Balboa's management had done a good job of avoiding Tyson until this point, but by late 1988, Tyson was rated the No1 challenger by all the major governing bodies. Faced with the options of facing Tyson or being stripped of the titles, Balboa was urged to retire, which he did, albeit briefly. The fight was held in Madison Square Garden, where Balboa (coming in as slight favourite) was destroyed and knocked out by the younger, hungrier and more powerful Tyson.

25-2-89 Rocky Balboa LKO2 Mike Tyson
Balboa down in the 1st

Considering the one-sided nature of their fight, a rematch seemed unlikely, but Balboa wanted revenge and Tyson wanted no one to doubt who was the better fighter. The big underdog, Balboa seemed on his way to defeat after going down in the 2nd. He absorbed and avoided punishment for the next 5 minutes, as Tyson punched himself to exhaustion. With a series of power punches, Balboa knocked Tyson down in the 3rd, and the younger man was unable to beat the count.

21-7-89 Rocky Balboa KO3 Mike Tyson
Balboa down in the 2nd
Wins WBC, WBA and IBF Heavyweight Titles

Balboa retired a year after the Tyson victory. An eliminator for the title was held between Evander Holyfield and Buster Douglas, Holyfield winning. After a few defenses, Holyfield was beaten by the huge, undefeated Riddick Bowe. Seeking more glory, Bowe lured the Balboa out of retirement. The 37 year old, 3 1/2 year inactive, former champ was given little chance by many. It seemed the many were right, as Balboa absorbed a brutal beating and visited the canvas several times. Bowe, while winning easily early in the fight, suffered a bad cut, and steadily took more damage as the fight continued. With Bowe well ahead on points, Balboa rallied to knock the much bigger, younger man out at the end of the 12th round. Balboa retired immediately after the fight.

6-2-93 Rocky Balboa KO12 Riddick Bowe
Balboa down several times
Wins WBA and IBF Heavyweight Titles

Years later, with Balboa immortalised as an all-time great, the heavyweight division was in tatters. Ever since the retirement of Lennox Lewis there had never been a great champion, and people saw the current WBO and IBF champion, Wladimir Klitschko as being the best of a weak division. Despite wins over many top rated challengers, most believed that Klitschko would lose to most of the champions of old, Balboa included. This irritated Klitschko, whose management managed to lure Balboa out of retirement for a 10 round, non-title fight. The fight was held at Caesers Palace, and most expected to see an easy points win for Klitschko, who would not win fans by beating up on a 52 year old Balboa. As with most Balboa fights, it turned out to be a war, with Klitschko fighting with one hand for most of the fight, after breaking his right in the 2nd round. A younger Balboa surely would have finished Klitschko off, but this slower, older version was still able to inflict a beating, although losing the fight via a split decision.

07-07-2007 Rocky Balboa LSD10 Wladimir Klitschko
Balboa down twice, Klitschko down once

Rocky Balboa retired for good. His record reads

80 fights
57 wins (51 by knockout)
23 losses
3-time world champion
Record in world title fights: 13 (13 KO) wins, 2 losses (1 KO).


SO, WHERE DOES ROCKY BALBOA FIT IN YOUR ALL-TIME TOP 10?

This is actually a very ingenius scenerio! It really puts Balboa's career achievements in perspective.

Without question, Balboa is the GOAT at heavyweight, and possibly one of the top 10 best P4P fighters of all time. It's a shame he ended up losing to that one dimensional quitter Tyson while smack dab in his prime, but he did avenge it in decisive fashion.

Robinson wrote:Were you wearing clothes when you did this ?

Balboa turned pro in the late 60s.
Balboa turned pro in the late 60s.

Correct. Rocky Balboa was also supposedly born in 1946, but for the sake of realistic opponents I changed this. Muhummad Ali would also be a more realistic version of Creed than Holmes (especially personality wise), but by far the best Lang is Tyson, and the Creed and Lang fights were supposedly only three years apart.

Were you wearing clothes when you did this ?
Were you wearing clothes when you did this ?

No.

Personally given my scenario I would have trouble rating Balboa any lower than No2 of all-time heavyweights, so long as the rating is soley based on accomplishments and quality of opposition. In terms of who beats who, Balboa probably comes somewhat lower.

Oh, and for future reference - I am aware that Rocky Balboa is a fictitious character and I actually was wearing clothes when I thought up the scenario.

*EVERYONE hears knows that Balbo isn't real*

But if he was, you could compare some similarities to Muhammad Ali... Not exactly in fighting style, but the progression of their careers.

(I know that Ali DIDN'T lose 20 fights at the beginning)...

But they both won the world title... Lost a decisive fight (Creed I & Frazier) then they won the world heavyweight title (again in Ali's case).
Then they lost their world titles (Norton & Lang)...
They both win their titles back again...
They retire.

THEN, much later, they both tried to make unsuccessful comeback bids... (Holmes & Dixon).

SO, all in all... I would rate Rocky somewhere in the top 10 DEFINITELY.

Here's my thoughts on the top 10 Heavyweights (based on records)

1. Rocky Marciano
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Joe Louis
4. George Foreman
5. Joe Frazier
6. Jack Dempsey
7 Jack Johnson
8. Ingemar Johansson
9. Larry Holmes
10. Max Schmeling

21-9-85 Rocky Balboa LSD15 Larry Holmes
Holmes down in the 1st, Balboa down in the 1st and 14th.

A rematch with Holmes was wanted by the public, many of whom believed the first fight was a draw, a win to Balboa, or a fix. They got their wish in April of 1986, the fight again held in Philadelphia. This time Rocky was the victor, by knockout in the 15th round while Holmes was well ahead on points.

19-4-86 Rocky Balboa KO15 Larry Holmes
Balboa down several times early in the fight and in the 15th.
Balboa wins IBF Heavyweight Title

Over the next 3 years, Rocky Balboa unified the heavyweight division, defending his title 10 times.

6-9-86 Rocky Balboa TKO4 Steffan Tangstad
22-11-86 Rocky Balboa TKO2 Trevor Berbick (wins WBC Heavyweight Title)
7-3-87 Rocky Balboa KO12 James Smith (wins WBA Heavyweight Title, becomes unified champion)
30-5-87 Rocky Balboa TKO6 Pinklon Thomas
1-8-87 Rocky Balboa KO12 Tony Tucker
16-10-87 Rocky Balboa TKO7 Tyrell Biggs
22-1-88 Rocky Balboa TKO5 Frank Bruno
21-3-88 Rocky Balboa TKO2 Tony Tubbs
27-6-88 Rocky Balboa KO1 Michael Spinks
29-10-88 Rocky Balboa TKO5 Francesco Damiani

While doing this, there was one great heavyweight contender who Balboa had managed to avoid facing. His name was Mike Tyson. Balboa's management had done a good job of avoiding Tyson until this point, but by late 1988, Tyson was rated the No1 challenger by all the major governing bodies. Faced with the options of facing Tyson or being stripped of the titles, Balboa was urged to retire, which he did, albeit briefly. The fight was held in Madison Square Garden, where Balboa (coming in as slight favourite) was destroyed and knocked out by the younger, hungrier and more powerful Tyson.

25-2-89 Rocky Balboa LKO2 Mike Tyson
Balboa down in the 1st

Considering the one-sided nature of their fight, a rematch seemed unlikely, but Balboa wanted revenge and Tyson wanted no one to doubt who was the better fighter. The big underdog, Balboa seemed on his way to defeat after going down in the 2nd. He absorbed and avoided punishment for the next 5 minutes, as Tyson punched himself to exhaustion. With a series of power punches, Balboa knocked Tyson down in the 3rd, and the younger man was unable to beat the count.

21-7-89 Rocky Balboa KO3 Mike Tyson
Balboa down in the 2nd
Wins WBC, WBA and IBF Heavyweight Titles

Balboa retired a year after the Tyson victory. An eliminator for the title was held between Evander Holyfield and Buster Douglas, Holyfield winning. After a few defenses, Holyfield was beaten by the huge, undefeated Riddick Bowe. Seeking more glory, Bowe lured the Balboa out of retirement. The 37 year old, 3 1/2 year inactive, former champ was given little chance by many. It seemed the many were right, as Balboa absorbed a brutal beating and visited the canvas several times. Bowe, while winning easily early in the fight, suffered a bad cut, and steadily took more damage as the fight continued. With Bowe well ahead on points, Balboa rallied to knock the much bigger, younger man out at the end of the 12th round. Balboa retired immediately after the fight.

6-2-93 Rocky Balboa KO12 Riddick Bowe
Balboa down several times
Wins WBA and IBF Heavyweight Titles

Years later, with Balboa immortalised as an all-time great, the heavyweight division was in tatters. Ever since the retirement of Lennox Lewis there had never been a great champion, and people saw the current WBO and IBF champion, Wladimir Klitschko as being the best of a weak division. Despite wins over many top rated challengers, most believed that Klitschko would lose to most of the champions of old, Balboa included. This irritated Klitschko, whose management managed to lure Balboa out of retirement for a 10 round, non-title fight. The fight was held at Caesers Palace, and most expected to see an easy points win for Klitschko, who would not win fans by beating up on a 52 year old Balboa. As with most Balboa fights, it turned out to be a war, with Klitschko fighting with one hand for most of the fight, after breaking his right in the 2nd round. A younger Balboa surely would have finished Klitschko off, but this slower, older version was still able to inflict a beating, although losing the fight via a split decision.

07-07-2007 Rocky Balboa LSD10 Wladimir Klitschko
Balboa down twice, Klitschko down once

Rocky Balboa retired for good. His record reads

80 fights
57 wins (51 by knockout)
23 losses
3-time world champion
Record in world title fights: 13 (13 KO) wins, 2 losses (1 KO).

Great analysis....but then again it dont quite fit in with the time line of the movies. ROCKY came out in 1976, and Ali was still the champ. So Balboa would be 1-1-0 (1) against Ali, which is remarkable because nobody has ever been able to knock Ali out. The title defenses....Mickey said in Rocky 3 that they were "not set ups, they were good fighters with good records, but they wasnt killers"....so we must assume Norton, Lyle, Shavers, Foreman and Frazier are off the list, so the defenses would be more against the likes of [judging by Ali's defenses]: Dunne, Coopman, Evangelista; then take into account that in the later half of the 1970's and early eighties you had contenders in Coetzee, Weaver, Tate and overall they weren't "killers" but durable ones....then throw in a young Mike Tyson as "Clubber Lang", and Balboa goes 1-1-0 (1) with him as well....fast forward to the fourth Rocky installment and thats where I hit a dead end, unless you want to put Riddick Bowe as the Super Heavyweight Olympic Gold medal winner that Ivan Drago was [mind you as well the Drago fight was non-sanctioned, not for the title as Balboa was stripped of it for pursuing the fight with the Russian, so therefore it was a 15 round exhibition]...fast forward to Rocky 5 and Rocky retires for good as a professional, but wins a street fight with current "paper champion" Tommy Gunn [might as well say Balboa beat Tommy Morrison, since Morrison in ways was a title claimer around the same time frame as the movie]...fast forward to the present, might as well say Balboa loses a 10 round split in an exhibition to someone like James Toney, who "won" but later was stripped of the WBA title for testing positive for steroids...

Thats just my take....and overall, it would make Balboa probably the greatest heavyweight of all time, despite having no defense whatsoever to speak of, being physically inferior to most of his opponents in terms of size.

I think 'Honey' Roy Palmer beats Rocky Balboa...

Im willing to wager with anyone here. I have personally
seen him put away ten men in one day.

..................

Ionos, if that movie Triumph of The Spirit was as true as it claims to be, that Greek during the Holocaust must have been the baddest mother fornicator, amateur or not....defeated more than 1,000 men during those years with the ultimatum of "win or die" always over his head.

plus he (Defoe) was trained by Teddy Atlas.

He would stop Balboa on a belly full of slush and bread crumbs.

Great analysis....but then again it dont quite fit in with the time line of the movies. ROCKY came out in 1976, and Ali was still the champ. So Balboa would be 1-1-0 (1) against Ali, which is remarkable because nobody has ever been able to knock Ali out. The title defenses....Mickey said in Rocky 3 that they were "not set ups, they were good fighters with good records, but they wasnt killers"....so we must assume Norton, Lyle, Shavers, Foreman and Frazier are off the list, so the defenses would be more against the likes of [judging by Ali's defenses]: Dunne, Coopman, Evangelista; then take into account that in the later half of the 1970's and early eighties you had contenders in Coetzee, Weaver, Tate and overall they weren't "killers" but durable ones....then throw in a young Mike Tyson as "Clubber Lang", and Balboa goes 1-1-0 (1) with him as well....fast forward to the fourth Rocky installment and thats where I hit a dead end, unless you want to put Riddick Bowe as the Super Heavyweight Olympic Gold medal winner that Ivan Drago was [mind you as well the Drago fight was non-sanctioned, not for the title as Balboa was stripped of it for pursuing the fight with the Russian, so therefore it was a 15 round exhibition]...fast forward to Rocky 5 and Rocky retires for good as a professional, but wins a street fight with current "paper champion" Tommy Gunn [might as well say Balboa beat Tommy Morrison, since Morrison in ways was a title claimer around the same time frame as the movie]...fast forward to the present, might as well say Balboa loses a 10 round split in an exhibition to someone like James Toney, who "won" but later was stripped of the WBA title for testing positive for steroids...

Thats just my take....and overall, it would make Balboa probably the greatest heavyweight of all time, despite having no defense whatsoever to speak of, being physically inferior to most of his opponents in terms of size.

The reason I shifted the time forward was to get the timing between fights more accurate. Rocky supposedly first fought Creed at age 30, beat him in the rematch age 31, and lost to and then beat Lang at age 34. By using Ali as creed, we are spreading the age gap massively, and having a 40+ Balboa fighting Lang/Tyson. The way I saw it, the best possible Creed is Ali, but Holmes also makes a good Creed (personality aside). Tyson, however is an excellent Lang, no one comes close. Bowe only got the nod as Drago because of his size, undefeated status and the general timing (Klitschko's too far away from prime Tyson). Wlad seemed a good fit for Dixon, few give him much of a chance against the greats of old, but he is clearly the best of the current crop.

Jeezamundo,

I couldn't agree more with your picks. So I'm going to echo what you said earlier.

Using Muhammad Ali as Creed would have been perfect (the mentality and all) but it would have stretched the time difference a little too much.

Tyson is a real-life Clubber Lang, let's face it.

Bowe is a good pick for Drago... Well, let's face it, there's no alternative around that time period is there ... (Maybe Vitali Klitchsko, but he came around like 8-9 years too late).

As for Dixon, well... The only choice would Wald Klitchsko as the IS the best at the moment.

Antoni "Kajtek" Czortek, was the name of the man Triumph of The Spirit was based upon. I could only find one picture of the man, but he was a Polish amateur champion (winning numerous gold, silver and bronze medals between 1934-1949) before going into Auschwitz during the Holocaust. According to the true story, he only engaged in 16 bouts, each one, though, was with the ultimatum that he either won or would be executed. He won all the fights, and tried to resume his career afterwards, capping off another victory for the Polish championship tournament.

http://www.fotohistoria.pl/gallery4/mai ... mId=107834

I had never heard of the Polish boxer before..

here's my own take on Balboa's career stats. http://forum.boxrec.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=88446