BoxRec

so..we have discussed on other threads about the natural talent lennox had, but how much of his success is down to the people behind him

was correa really that bad

was harold 'shadow' knight really the brains in the gym

did courtney shand help at all ?

rhino222 wrote:so..we have discussed on other threads about the natural talent lennox had, but how much of his success is down to the people behind him

was correa really that bad

was harold 'shadow' knight really the brains in the gym

did courtney shand help at all ?

Lennox wih his size and athletic ability was destined to be a World Champion - with age came experience and that made him a great champion.

Manny Steward might have been better than Pepe but Manny is a celebrity trainer and WTF has he done really?

Apart from Hearns who else did he bring through? who?

Lennox would always have made it to the top - the fact he stayed there was because he made his own way ( stayed away from Don King) and was bigger-faster-mentally and physically stronger not to mention naturally more talented than most.

His Management did not do much for him if you ask me - remember he was rinsed out by Panos and had to sue his arse to get his cash. He was robbed against Holyfield ( some say - not me) and frozen out for years.

Lennox did it because Lennox had the belief and arrogance that you need to suceed in the toughest sport of all.

He also had FRIENDS ( Courtney and Harold - Prince etc ) watching out for him and NOT groupies sniffing round him.

DG. wrote:

Manny Steward might have been better than Pepe but Manny is a celebrity trainer and WTF has he done really?

[/quote]


He developed six gold medal winners for the 1984 U.S. Olympic Team, including Pernell Whitaker, Mark Breland, Terrell Biggs, Jerry Page, Frank Tate and Steve McCrory. He took an 18-year old slugger named Tommy Hearns on to win world titles in five different weight classes. He has worked with 31 World Champions including Hilmer Kenty, Milton McCrory, Mike McCallum, Dennis Andries, Jimmy Paul, Duane Thomas, John David Jackson, Michael Moorer, Steve McCrory, Gerald McClellan, Wilfredo Benitez, Evander Holyfield, Julio César Chávez, James Toney, Oscar de la Hoya, Jermain Taylor, Kermit Cintron, Naseem Hamed. He also took Lennox Lewis and Wladimir Klitschko off the floor and made them elite Heavyweight Champions. Yeah WTF has he done really?

fatman wrote:

DG. wrote:

Manny Steward might have been better than Pepe but Manny is a celebrity trainer and WTF has he done really?

He developed six gold medal winners for the 1984 U.S. Olympic Team, including Pernell Whitaker, Mark Breland, Terrell Biggs, Jerry Page, Frank Tate and Steve McCrory. He took an 18-year old slugger named Tommy Hearns on to win world titles in five different weight classes. He has worked with 31 World Champions including Hilmer Kenty, Milton McCrory, Mike McCallum, Dennis Andries, Jimmy Paul, Duane Thomas, John David Jackson, Michael Moorer, Steve McCrory, Gerald McClellan, Wilfredo Benitez, Evander Holyfield, Julio César Chávez, James Toney, Oscar de la Hoya, Jermain Taylor, Kermit Cintron, Naseem Hamed. He also took Lennox Lewis and Wladimir Klitschko off the floor and made them elite Heavyweight Champions. Yeah WTF has he done really?
[/quote]



Yeah but apart from sanitation, the viaduct, education, the roads etc.. WTF did the Romans ever do for us!

boxingchat wrote:


Yeah but apart from sanitation, the viaduct, education, the roads etc.. WTF did the Romans ever do for us!

Brought peace?

DG. wrote:He was robbed against Holyfield ( some say - not me) and frozen out for years.

You don't think that was a robbery, are you serious?

He HELPED to develop six gold medal winners for the 1984 U.S. Olympic Team,

HE WAS NOT THE MAIN TRAINER - HE HAD A BIT OF INPUT AND THAT IS IT.

Those guys could have been trained by a chimps and they would have won medals!

Pernell Whitaker
Mark Breland
Terrell Biggs
Jerry Page
Frank Tate
Steve McCrory.

YES....He took an 18-year old slugger named Tommy Hearns on to win world titles in five different weight classes.

See below - Kronk from start? Yes or NO?

He has worked with 31 World Champions including
Hilmer Kenty YES Kronk from start
Milton McCrory, Kronk from Start?
Mike McCallum, NO!
Dennis Andries NO!
Jimmy Paul?
Duane Thomas?
John David Jackson NO
Michael Moorer Yes
Steve McCrory??
Gerald McClellanYes
Wilfredo Benitez NO
Evander Holyfield NO
Julio César Chávez NO
James Toney NO
Oscar de la Hoya NO
Jermain Taylor NO
Kermit Cintron NO
Naseem Hamed NO
Lennox Lewis NO
Wladimir KlitschkoNO

WORKING WITH THEM? so what?

Did he develop them? me say NO NO NO!

Celebrity Hype job asking for loads of money when people like Georgie Benton ( Pernells trainer ) work quietly and get results.

Steward is a hype job imo!

The mans a multi millionaire - he should have fixed the Kronk himself!

mrbassie wrote:

DG. wrote:He was robbed against Holyfield ( some say - not me) and frozen out for years.

You don't think that was a robbery, are you serious?

I think I had Lennox by 2 so it was hardly a robbery - 1 point more to Holyfield and its a draw.

DG. wrote:

mrbassie wrote:

DG. wrote:He was robbed against Holyfield ( some say - not me) and frozen out for years.

You don't think that was a robbery, are you serious?

I think I had Lennox by 2 so it was hardly a robbery - 1 point more to Holyfield and its a draw.

are we talking about the first fight here?

what has steward done ??????????? DG you talk bollocks

Oh yes - the first fight!

DG. wrote:Gerald McClellanYes

that's a no shitebag.

hitman_hatton1 wrote:

DG. wrote:Gerald McClellanYes

that's a no shitebag.

You sure?

DG. wrote:

hitman_hatton1 wrote:

DG. wrote:Gerald McClellanYes

that's a no shitebag.

You sure?

if ya talking about came thru all the way then ya wrong. :>

if u just mean from the start of his pro career u may be right. :geek2:

McClellan became a professional boxer in 1988. Trained by hall of fame trainer Emanuel Steward, he captured the WBO world middleweight championship knocking out John Mugabi in one round in 1991, and the WBC's version by knocking out Julian Jackson in five rounds in 1993. He defended the WBC title three times.


Read it!

I mean as a Pro.

DG BRINGS DA NEWS!

At the very least Manny 'Bar' Steward took him to a World Title before he was established.

SO what if he trained Holyfield Lennox Wlad!! They were already former World Champs.

Holyfield couldn't do much in their first fight, LL in his dull safety first mode won it on points and to deny ithe draw was a massive worldwide controversy (front page US and UK) is basically just a lie.

The second fight though... Holyfield took that IMO.

DG. wrote:McClellan became a professional boxer in 1988. Trained by hall of fame trainer Emanuel Steward, he captured the WBO world middleweight championship knocking out John Mugabi in one round in 1991, and the WBC's version by knocking out Julian Jackson in five rounds in 1993. He defended the WBC title three times.


Read it!

I mean as a Pro.

DG BRINGS DA NEWS!

At the very least Manny 'Bar' Steward took him to a World Title before he was established.

SO what if he trained Holyfield Lennox Wlad!! They were already former World Champs.

i agree steward has been living on his kronk gym reputation for far too long.

he hasn't actually came up with anything all the way thru since the hearns, mccrory and kenty days in the early 80's.

and i don't mean guys like moorer and mcclellan who went to him to turn pro.

getting back to the thread question.

i think steward definitely helped refine a few things.

but lennox was already a serious operator.

overhand_right wrote:The second fight though... Holyfield took that IMO.

no way.

lennox won early and late in that fight.

holyfield did ok in the middle rds including that big 7th.

deserved lennox victory.

"OK" lol....

Holyfield was handing him his ar#e after the first 3 rds....

LL was totally knackered. When he tried engage Holy always got the better of him. He was spoiling his way to the last bell.

Maybe you should watch the fight without believeing everything the LL fanclub Iain Darke & Glenn McCrory try convince you is happening.

overhand_right wrote:Holyfield couldn't do much in their first fight, LL in his dull safety first mode won it on points and to deny ithe draw was a massive worldwide controversy (front page US and UK) is basically just a lie.

The second fight though... Holyfield took that IMO.

I agree Holyfield should have got the 2nd fight.

hitman_hatton1 wrote:

DG. wrote:McClellan became a professional boxer in 1988. Trained by hall of fame trainer Emanuel Steward, he captured the WBO world middleweight championship knocking out John Mugabi in one round in 1991, and the WBC's version by knocking out Julian Jackson in five rounds in 1993. He defended the WBC title three times.


Read it!

I mean as a Pro.

DG BRINGS DA NEWS!

At the very least Manny 'Bar' Steward took him to a World Title before he was established.

SO what if he trained Holyfield Lennox Wlad!! They were already former World Champs.

i agree steward has been living on his kronk gym reputation for far too long.

he hasn't actually came up with anything all the way thru since the hearns, mccrory and kenty days in the early 80's.

and i don't mean guys like moorer and mcclellan who went to him to turn pro.

getting back to the thread question.

i think steward definitely helped refine a few things.

but lennox was already a serious operator.

Yes, living off of success from the 80s!


We are now in 2008!

DG. wrote:Oh yes - the first fight!

ok. You're winding me up then. I don't believe you're being serious.

mrbassie wrote:

DG. wrote:Oh yes - the first fight!

ok. You're winding me up then. I don't believe you're being serious.

I should explain that Evander is my all time favourite fighter!


4 rounds to Evander and 6 to Lennox with 2 even!

Terry D wrote:

DG. wrote:ok. You're winding me up then. I don't believe you're being serious.

I should explain that Evander is my all time favourite fighter!


4 rounds to Evander and 6 to Lennox with 2 even!

Would that be the same Holyfield who was taken by Manny and taught how to beat Bowe? With Manny using the fights in-between to help him develop a Bowe-beating style?

Steward is one of the great trainers. Guys usually only build one guy from scratch and get associated with that name. If a guy can come in and make Lewis better than he was, and make Wlad look solid, if basic, then surely he is a good trainer.

DG brings tha news, more like The Sun on this one though, and you know, know, know that is the truth.[/quote]



T Diddddddlllyyyyy!



I say Manny is a good trainer - but not the great people make him out to be.

Holyfield's mistake in the first Bowe fight was coming in at 14st 8lbs against a 17st plus 6ft 5 skilled big man in Bowe.

Not being funny - but it was an obvious strategy ( box and move - keep Bowe turning and not allow him to get set and then brawl in between) that Steward put in place. He was working with Holyfield after all! If MANNY STEWARD devised a strategy for Butterbean to beat BOWE then yes - maybe he is great!

Sing it Boxrec..

T. Diddly T. Diddly

D D D D D D D D Diddly!

"more powerful than he had in his earlier career"

he looked a little tasty against Golota and Ruddock, both before Steward got near him?