BoxRec

Who was your favorite, or better still, who do you think was the greatest Native American fighter of all time? We always talk of the greatest latino fighters, phillipino fighters, irish fighters, african fighters, etc etc etc, but it seems the Native American still doesnt get its due, especially in this sport of ours.

For me, my favorite was "The Boss" Joe Hipp, who is best remembered for not only giving Tommy Morrison one hell of an encounter breaking his jaw, but for winning the minor NABF title from AlexGarcia and defended it successfully against Jose Ribalta; he also fought for the WBA title against Bruce Seldon in what was an entertaining fight. His knee problems, though, stopped him from furthering a promising career. He made a short lived comeback, but it never took off. But he was one of the more exciting characters of the 1990's heavyweight scene.

Does Henry Armstrong count? Cause if so he's the obvious choice for greatest ever. I mean he was half Iroquois and half African-American.

The way I always look at it is, if they are more Native American than anything else, then they are a true Native American...otherwise we'd have Joe Louis and Jack Dempsey on this thread as being the greatest Native American fighters, since they had some heritage. For my money the best example to show what I am talking about is Luther McCarty, whose father was full blooded Native American and his mother was part Native American and Irish...so McCarty over all was more an 'indian' than say Henry Armstrong.

HomicideHenry wrote:The way I always look at it is, if they are more Native American than anything else, then they are a true Native American...otherwise we'd have Joe Louis and Jack Dempsey on this thread as being the greatest Native American fighters, since they had some heritage. For my money the best example to show what I am talking about is Luther McCarty, whose father was full blooded Native American and his mother was part Native American and Irish...so McCarty over all was more an 'indian' than say Henry Armstrong.

I get you, I was just curious about Hank considering he was half-Native American and that tends to be enough when considering one's heritage. Any less than half and it often gets convoluted because many people have varied ancestries within a few generations.

HomicideHenry wrote:Who was your favorite, or better still, who do you think was the greatest Native American fighter of all time? We always talk of the greatest latino fighters, phillipino fighters, irish fighters, african fighters, etc etc etc, but it seems the Native American still doesnt get its due, especially in this sport of ours.

For me, my favorite was "The Boss" Joe Hipp, who is best remembered for not only giving Tommy Morrison one hell of an encounter breaking his jaw, but for winning the minor NABF title from AlexGarcia and defended it successfully against Jose Ribalta; he also fought for the WBA title against Bruce Seldon in what was an entertaining fight. His knee problems, though, stopped him from furthering a promising career. He made a short lived comeback, but it never took off. But he was one of the more exciting characters of the 1990's heavyweight scene.

Joe Hipp? Entertaining? He was an over weight southpaw heavy. He spent half the fight leaning on the other guy, then he would step back and throw one haymaker left.....then go back to leaning. No thanks.....

Clay Turner, tall, lanky Souix served as a sparring partner for Dempsey and twice beat Kid Norfolk.

One would think, having been apart of the fight business in Oklahoma, that I would know about several Native American boxers. But that fact is that, while we had tons of amateur Native Americans, very few seemed to turn professional. And those that did didn't seem to amount to much.

The only full-blooded Native American that I knew who had any kind of reputation was Alvin Williams, a Caddo who fought at light-heavyweight in the 1950s, and who fought Floyd Patterson three times early in Floyd's career while Floyd was still campaigning as a LH. Alvin lived in Kansas, but would come to the gym and the fights from time to time when visitng Oklahoma.

I was told once that one of the white hopes of the 1900s - Carl Morris - who hailed from Sapulpa - was part Cherokee.

Here is one of mine, Chief Archie Whitewater.
Also Ernie and Danny Red Lopez

Great catch, Frank! How could we forget the Lopez brothers?

Monzon had Indian blood in him.

Bennie, I think sociologists/anthropologists limit Native Americans to indigenous peoples from the regions of North America now encompassed by the continental United States, including parts of Alaska. Monzon does not qualify under that definition.

Oh, right. I just read it somewhere, that's all. I'm pretty much in the dark about definitions.

But you are right about Monzon's ethnicity. He descended from indigenous peoples. You just got the wrong continent, that's all.

raylawpc wrote:But you are right about Monzon's ethnicity. He descended from indigenous peoples. You just got the wrong continent, that's all.

This is what happens when one reads Nigel Collins.

Wasn't Marvin Camel a Native American too? And the first Cruiserweight champion?

That's right. I believe he was from the Flathead tribe up in the Montana area. ("Flatheads" was the name used by whites. I don't recall the Indian name for the tribe.)

HomicideHenry wrote:The way I always look at it is, if they are more Native American than anything else, then they are a true Native American...otherwise we'd have Joe Louis and Jack Dempsey on this thread as being the greatest Native American fighters, since they had some heritage. For my money the best example to show what I am talking about is Luther McCarty, whose father was full blooded Native American and his mother was part Native American and Irish...so McCarty over all was more an 'indian' than say Henry Armstrong.

Does that disqualify Henry Armstrong from consideration for the best African American fighter too?

Technically, since we all consider Ray Robinson to be the best fighter of all time, the position of "greatest African-American fighter of all time" would also go to Robinson....

Who is "we" I dont consider him the best fighter of all time.

JOE HIPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

klompton wrote:Who is "we" I dont consider him the best fighter of all time.

The majority of fans and historians consider Ray Robinson the greatest fighter of all time, at least of the more modern day fighters.

My favorite was Indian Yaki Lopez who could have spotted Hipp a hundred pounds and kicked his behind..

raylawpc wrote:Bennie, I think sociologists/anthropologists limit Native Americans to indigenous peoples from the regions of North America now encompassed by the continental United States, including parts of Alaska. Monzon does not qualify under that definition.

Maybe they're wrong after all Monzon comes from South AMERICA. (I was always a little peeved about U.S. citizen's calling themselves Americans as everyone from North America and South America is essentially American. Anyway, back to boxing) Gaspar Ortega had some native American blood if I remember correctly. So does the recently retired Erik Morales. As a matter of fact, many Mexican fighters have a little Native American blood in them though I suppose they wouldn't be considered Native Americans.

vagabundo55 wrote:

raylawpc wrote:Bennie, I think sociologists/anthropologists limit Native Americans to indigenous peoples from the regions of North America now encompassed by the continental United States, including parts of Alaska. Monzon does not qualify under that definition.

Maybe they're wrong after all Monzon comes from South AMERICA. (I was always a little peeved about U.S. citizen's calling themselves Americans as everyone from North America and South America is essentially American. Anyway, back to boxing) Gaspar Ortega had some native American blood if I remember correctly. So does the recently retired Erik Morales. As a matter of fact, many Mexican fighters have a little Native American blood in them though I suppose they wouldn't be considered Native Americans.

Contact:

American Anthropological Association
2200 Wilson Blvd., Suite 600
Arlington, VA 22201
Telephone: (703) 528-1902
FAX: (703) 528-3546

Maybe you can get them to change 100+ years of anthropological classification. Good luck with that, and let us know how you make out.