BoxRec

Joe doesn't wanna know. I'd like to see it but I can see Joe's point of view too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/7679356.stm

"I heard Hopkins wanted a rematch with me, but I don't do rematches." - ahem, Mario Viet.

i knew he'd take that attitude. DD

i think he's fed up with it all tbh.

definitely 1 more fight for joe and out. :>

Although he did fight viet twice it was hardly because the first fight was close... It was more to do with him becoming mandatory on 2 occasions...

It seems to be no matter what Joe does some people are never gonna be happy. Doubt if he gives a fxxx tho !

Simple facts are he's never been beat

"So I can retire with a clear conscience knowing that I've beaten everyone who's worth beating.
"I heard Hopkins wanted a rematch with me, but I don't do rematches.

I really hope Jones KTFO of him

No one really knows the ins and outs for sure, But the facts are he is an unbeaten 2 weight world champ and along the way has beaten the following names:

Eubank
Reid
Sheik
Woodhall
Brewer
Mitchell
Lacy
Kessler
Hopkins

How when or where he's beaten them is irrelevent - he did it. Seems to me he could go on forever beating people and still some would say he aint fought Dawson or he didint fight so and so in his prime...

I love it.... poor svenny his natural rival wasn't worth beating.The man who had 20 defences and held a more pretigious title for 8 of Joe's 10 years.

Most of the greats give rematches to fighters they might have had a lucky escape with. Its a mark of a great fighter. I mean, had their hands raised controvesially (for whatever reason) but still given the a 2nd bite at the cherry. Only 2 I can think of, off the top of my head, in the modern era that failed to was Lewis and Joe - maybe says something about the mindset of British fighters?

Roy, Holyfield, Tyson, Toney, Barrera, Morales, Pacquiao, Ricardo Lopez, Whittikar, Mosley, Winky, Mayweather - all said "okay he deserves a 2nd crack".... Not Joe or Lewis - although to be fair to Lewis there was only really Mercer and then Klitchsko who fell into that category.

And I don't mean giving someone a crack who you have KO'd in one round. Joe should have given Reid a rematch, and he should give Hopkins one.

He doesent have to do anything fxxx hopkins - He went to Vegas went through all the crap that comes with working alongside Hopkins selling the fight - which I should imagine is knackering. got the nod from the jusdges in the other mans Country. Why should he do it all again?? if he did people would be back on his back here saying its all about the money.

Daveyswan wrote:has beaten the following names:

Eubank - Passed it
Reid - Not a big name, yet struggled. Red wanted Rematch, Calzaghe ran
Sheik - Standard opponent
Woodhall - Standard opponent
Brewer - Standard opponent
Mitchell - Standard opponent
Lacy - Turned out to be nothing but Over hyped, hence early retiremet
Kessler - IMO, his best win, but even then, Kessler was just Fringe-World Class
Hopkins - Passed it

How when or where he's beaten them is irrelevent - he did it. .

Calzaghe is one the best Boxers ever, yet he has cheated nobody except himself. He could have fought the best Prime V Prime, but instead stayed at one weight-class his entire career. He will have a big question mark on his career... Could he have done it ?

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:"So I can retire with a clear conscience knowing that I've beaten everyone who's worth beating.
"I heard Hopkins wanted a rematch with me, but I don't do rematches.

I really hope Jones KTFO of him

Calzaghe comes across as a really ignorant guy! Anyway, as much I want Hopkins-Calzaghe 2 to happen, I knew Joe would rule it out. I thought Hopkins beat Calzaghe last April, but the judges didin't. No one can deny it was a very close fight & Calzaghe has no intentions of giving a rematch to someone who has taken him to the wire!

Calzaghe says he's been boxing for too long to continue after Jones, but Hopkins is fcuking 43 7 he's continuing, so Calzaghe's excuse is a feeble one!

Lacy earned his shot and was a world title holder at the time, may have been overhyped but had beaten some fighters along the way

Kessler Fringe - dont think so and think will go on to prove otherwise.

Hopkins may be past his best but he took Pavlik to school , 3 days ago most people where saying that Pavlik was the dogs bxxxxx

All the others apart from Sheik/Viet where world champs at one time. So to call them standard is a little bit far fetched.

D

Daveyswan wrote:He doesent have to do anything fxxx hopkins - He went to Vegas went through all the crap that comes with working alongside Hopkins selling the fight - which I should imagine is knackering. got the nod from the jusdges in the other mans Country. Why should he do it all again?? if he did people would be back on his back here saying its all about the money.

Cause people said he didn't win... lots of people think he didn't win. Like lots of people didn't think Taylor won - he still rematched, like lots of people thought Taylor would beat Pavlik in a rematch - so he duly obliged.

Its the sign of a great. Not that I am suggesting Taylor and Pavlik are great - but it takes big balls to step into the ring to fight someone who people think, based on a first fight, has got your number and that in someway you were lucky to keep your belt - for whatever reason.

I think you could argue as many as 4 fighters from Joe's reign who maybe, for one reason or another, were rematch worthy - Mitchell, Eubank, Reid and Hopkins - the last two especially.

And thinking on this - Naz and Hatton also haven't rematched fighters who I have thought "he'll have him next time" - is it a British mentality? The 4 greatest Britains of the last 10 years - none have rematched fights that they have WON controvesially.

stujones wrote:I love it.... poor svenny his natural rival wasn't worth beating.The man who had 20 defences and held a more pretigious title for 8 of Joe's 10 years. .

Stu, I know you bring up Sven's name a lot in Calzaghe debates but you leave out one vital fact - Ottke's trainer is on the record as saying that the match could never have been made as Sven made it clear to him that he didn't want to take the fight - doesn't matter how willing Joe/Warren might have been, despite Ottke's trainer being up for it the man himself didn't want it. He's the one to blame in this particular circumstance, not Calzaghe.

teddy007 wrote: Kessler destroys all other smw at the moment and i think he would beat Dawson up at light-heavy.

I really rate Kessler but think he would struggle with Dawson's movement and handspeed, which is phenomenal for a light-heavy. Dawson widely on points IMO.

Deserter wrote:

stujones wrote:I love it.... poor svenny his natural rival wasn't worth beating.The man who had 20 defences and held a more pretigious title for 8 of Joe's 10 years. .

Stu, I know you bring up Sven's name a lot in Calzaghe debates but you leave out one vital fact - Ottke's trainer is on the record as saying that the match could never have been made as Sven made it clear to him that he didn't want to take the fight - doesn't matter how willing Joe/Warren might have been, despite Ottke's trainer being up for it the man himself didn't want it. He's the one to blame in this particular circumstance, not Calzaghe.

Ottke's trainer and team were on record once I believe (circumstance/feelings can change; David Haye said the Mormeck fight would be his last at Cruiserweight and told Enzo Mac he'd fight him at Heavyweight) in saying that they didn't want the fight outside of Germany.... Warren/Joe were on record saying they didn't want the fight in Germany. Both are equally to blame, but Ottke gets all of the blame.

stujones wrote:David Haye said the Mormeck fight would be his last at Cruiserweight and told Enzo Mac he'd fight him at Heavyweight

That was just to sucker Warren and Enzo into the fight though by making them believe he was weak at the weight and it worked.

Deserter wrote:

stujones wrote:I love it.... poor svenny his natural rival wasn't worth beating.The man who had 20 defences and held a more pretigious title for 8 of Joe's 10 years. .

Stu, I know you bring up Sven's name a lot in Calzaghe debates but you leave out one vital fact - Ottke's trainer is on the record as saying that the match could never have been made as Sven made it clear to him that he didn't want to take the fight - doesn't matter how willing Joe/Warren might have been, despite Ottke's trainer being up for it the man himself didn't want it. He's the one to blame in this particular circumstance, not Calzaghe.

Calazage didnt call Sven out until he 'lost' to Reid, so no he wasnt trying to make the unification back then, lets not pretend otherwise

Daveyswan wrote:No one really knows the ins and outs for sure, But the facts are he is an unbeaten 2 weight world champ and along the way has beaten the following names:

Eubank
Reid
Sheik
Woodhall
Brewer
Mitchell
Lacy
Kessler
Hopkins

How when or where he's beaten them is irrelevent - he did it. Seems to me he could go on forever beating people and still some would say he aint fought Dawson or he didint fight so and so in his prime...

Eubank - Old and weight drained
Reid - ex-champ coming off a loss, SD that many had reid winning, Calazage wouldnt rematch
Sheika - average
Woodhall - decent ex belt holder coming off a loss, good win
Brewer - Ex belt holder coming off a 2 round KO loss to Echols - why no echols fight?
Mitchell - Good win, Mitchell coming off a loss to Otke, but that could have gone either way, but a very premature stoppage as Mitchell landed the last punch of the night
Lacy - very good emphatic win, Lacy wasn't that good, with poor defense and wide shots but he was tearign through opponents
Kessler - Excellent, excellent win, Kessler isnt P4P quality but he is quality
Hopkins - He lost against a 43yo ATG

People he avoided: Glen Johnson, Vanderpool, Echols, Mundine. He didn't go after other champions like Prime Roy Jones, Prime Hopkins (he did try but Hopkins went for the mega money against Delahoya), Otke and Beyer (who may not have faced him but he didnt try).

I like Calzaghe, he's a very good fighter, but christ, he really is full of shit sometimes.

There's always an excuse why not with Joe.....based on that performance, a fight with Hopkins would be huge, but there's no other way to put this, he is simply scared he will lose his unbeaten record if he fights Bernard again.

Jones would rather fight the ghost of Jones Jr. past, then take on a revitalised Bernard Hopkins - I find this aspect of Joe's career shameful. Calzaghe is fighting a bloke who he himself wrote off as being a shell of his former self and who he said he wouldn't fight for that reason.

Calzaghe has consistently seemed to miss out on high profile fights, citing a plethora of excuses, but the truth is, Hopkins has managed to take on and more often than not beat, pretty much every big name challenger out there. Look at who he has fought at the tail end of his career, truly remarkable. Taylor, Calzaghe, Pavilk Wright and Tarver in the last three years!

its tough on joe to break his career down like that but I kind of agree.

Kessler was a great win.

This being said Joe would still have been competitive, if not victorious, against a lot of ATG fighters.

banjo wrote:

stujones wrote:David Haye said the Mormeck fight would be his last at Cruiserweight and told Enzo Mac he'd fight him at Heavyweight

That was just to sucker Warren and Enzo into the fight though by making them believe he was weak at the weight and it worked.

And maybe Ottke's team said that to sucker Warren to offering more cash! It certainly wasn't a "we know our boy would get a kicking there is no point to the match" type of statement. It simply was the fact that Ottke didn't want to risk his title by having bias judgments in Wales, likewise Calzaghe.

So you can say it is 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. However, its not Sven who is harping on about "doing it for the achievements and not the money" and its not Sven who harps on about his all time standing.... its not Sven who is banging on about beating all the worthy fighters.

If Ottke was so crap and unworthy, why didn't Joe go out there make a shed loads offer Ottke "the wimp" a deal he couldn't refuse and KO him. Going to Germany was no problem for the "worthy" Mario Veit.

Ottke was Joe's natural rival - Hopkins' prime was at a Middleweight, Roy Jones was at Light Heavyweight when Joe was reaching his prime. Its the one that will always tarnish Joe's standing. They should have forced this issue.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I like Calzaghe, he's a very good fighter, but christ, he really is full of shit sometimes.

There's always an excuse why not with Joe.....based on that performance, a fight with Hopkins would be huge, but there's no other way to put this, he is simply scared he will lose his unbeaten record if he fights Bernard again.

Jones would rather fight the ghost of Jones Jr. past, then take on a revitalised Bernard Hopkins - I find this aspect of Joe's career shameful. Calzaghe is fighting a bloke who he himself wrote off as being a shell of his former self and who he said he wouldn't fight for that reason.

Calzaghe has consistently seemed to miss out on high profile fights, citing a plethora of excuses, but the truth is, Hopkins has managed to take on and more often than not beat, pretty much every big name challenger out there. Look at who he has fought at the tail end of his career, truly remarkable. Taylor, Calzaghe, Pavilk Wright and Tarver in the last three years!

Had Joe not been so successfully managed, then I am no doubt that wouldn't have been so many threads about him since this forum opened when was it in 2004. He would have lost to Hopkins, Jones, might have cited weight problems as an excuse and then lost to Toney.

He would have almost been forgotton about.

stujones wrote:

Deserter wrote:

stujones wrote:I love it.... poor svenny his natural rival wasn't worth beating.The man who had 20 defences and held a more pretigious title for 8 of Joe's 10 years. .

Stu, I know you bring up Sven's name a lot in Calzaghe debates but you leave out one vital fact - Ottke's trainer is on the record as saying that the match could never have been made as Sven made it clear to him that he didn't want to take the fight - doesn't matter how willing Joe/Warren might have been, despite Ottke's trainer being up for it the man himself didn't want it. He's the one to blame in this particular circumstance, not Calzaghe.

Ottke's trainer and team were on record once I believe (circumstance/feelings can change; David Haye said the Mormeck fight would be his last at Cruiserweight and told Enzo Mac he'd fight him at Heavyweight) in saying that they didn't want the fight outside of Germany.... Warren/Joe were on record saying they didn't want the fight in Germany. Both are equally to blame, but Ottke gets all of the blame.

Ottke's trainer made the comment in an interview after Ottke had retired, saying that Sven had made it explicit that he didn't want the Calzaghe fight - I'm not saying Calzaghe is blameless, but you're the one individual who constantly brings up Ottke as a criticism when discussing Calzaghe's legacy and I'm just saying it's a bit pointless given his own trainer is on the record as saying the fight would NEVER have happened because of Sven's own attitude.

Plus there are home decisions and homer refs, and then there is the Otke fight against Reid. I don't blame Joe at all for not wanting to fight over there!! They could have manufactured a Sven win against a prime Tyson if there was a way

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:"So I can retire with a clear conscience knowing that I've beaten everyone who's worth beating.
"I heard Hopkins wanted a rematch with me, but I don't do rematches.

I really hope Jones KTFO of him

You unpatriotic bugger.