BoxRec

Is Francis fighting Zsolt Erdei in Germany, next Jan? It's supposedly down on the BoxRec schedule. Obviously, that doesn't mean it's going to happen. But if it is a go ahead, I'm looking forward to it.

He's come back really well this past year or two. Good to see a fighter with proper skills and hunger getting a shot.

Will it happen? Can Francis do it?

Sounds like it is happening. Good fight this one. I don't see the fuss of Erdei and would be confident of Francis winning if this was in the UK - providing his health holds up.

Nice to see Erdei facing a live contender for a change.

Banana skin for Erdei!

And I hope Dean wins as his career deserves it.

Is Francis still with Warren? If so, I have to say this is a WBO fight to look forward to. Always wanted to see Erdei in with a fighter I like. And always felt Francis had the ability to win a belt, back in the day. So a nice fight.

If he wins, will it be Francis-Woods? Cleverly?

I think stylistically Joe Calzaghe is all wrong for Dean - You need a right hand against Joe... but that would still be a fight I would like to see, even if its kind of similar to they I wasn't too dissapointed when DLH fought Campas.

Calzaghe?

what a result if it comes off. no holding back on throwing the right hand in this one. has to go for it. if he throws his shoulder out in the fight and has to pull out thats a risk he has to take. cos if he ends up losing because hes held it back all night, he wont forget the one chance he blew in a hurry

Autobarn wrote:Calzaghe?

Sorry, you asked if he (Francis) wins - well why not Joe against Francis? Its a fight I would have loved to have seen in 1999/2000. I would favour Joe more so now, but still wouldn't say its a joke of a match up - if Francis wins.

Cleverley is good, but I would like to see Francis really cash in on what would be a fantastic achievement - so wouldn't like to really see any domestic fight other than against Joe.

Yes he is with Warren

stujones wrote:

Autobarn wrote:Calzaghe?

Sorry, you asked if he (Francis) wins - well why not Joe against Francis? Its a fight I would have loved to have seen in 1999/2000. I would favour Joe more so now, but still wouldn't say its a joke of a match up - if Francis wins.

Cleverley is good, but I would like to see Francis really cash in on what would be a fantastic achievement - so wouldn't like to really see any domestic fight other than against Joe.

I agree Francis was on his way to be a champ in 1999 or so. He and Joe probably would have been kept apart, as Beyer and Ottke were. I think Francis could have done very well if he hadn't been injured. Joe was still a bit raw, and I don't think we ever saw the best of Deano. Joe definitely had the size and stamina, whereas Francis has the power and precision. Not sure who would have won it, but it would have been the Benn-Eubank of the Satellite era (great fight with much smaller audience).

I think Francis, now, after operations, layoffs, will do well to beat Erdei. I really hope he does. What a story this would be if he wins.

I think there are reasons why Francis v Joe wouldn't happen now: Joe's retiring post Jones, & Warren would surely want to keep the WBO belt in house (Cleverly), etc. And obviously Joe has little to gain from fighting Francis even if he wins a world belt.

Won't be long till Francis has another loss.

Not to hate on him but he can hardly use his shoulder. When he used his right, he easily was able to keep Oakey back then.

His best chance at a world title was when the WBC Super Middle belt was on a merry go round between the likes of Beyer, Lucas, Catley and Woodhall.

Be interesting to know what Francis' promotional status is should he pull it off. Germans tend to want options on the winner.

Cant wait to find out where this fight will be. A decent Dean Francis following would be quite a scene in the very sedate German boxing crowd.

I hope it's in proper FKK territory ;;-)

Francis v Woods would be a fair fight, Francis v Calzaghe would be a shocking mismatch

At this point of course Francis would not be competitive with Calzaghe, as he's had years off from boxing and never reached his prime (IMO). Francis v Calzaghe would've been a great fight in 1998/9 if all the conditions were perfect.

Autobarn wrote:At this point of course Francis would not be competitive with Calzaghe, as he's had years off from boxing and never reached his prime (IMO). Francis v Calzaghe would've been a great fight in 1998/9 if all the conditions were perfect.

And JC did him first round in the 93 or 94 ABA semi's

Yes but that doesn't mean Joe would have done him in 1 round in 1998 when both were at their peaks. Lesser talents than Francis have extended Calzaghe in his early years as WBO champ. Decent fighters such as Woodhall and Reid for example. Francis was a hot fighter as he was developing in 97/98.

Autobarn wrote:Yes but that doesn't mean Joe would have done him in 1 round in 1998 when both were at their peaks. Lesser talents than Francis have extended Calzaghe in his early years as WBO champ. Decent fighters such as Woodhall and Reid for example. Francis was a hot fighter as he was developing in 97/98.

In my opinion JC was always a couple of classes ahead of Francis, the amateur bout highlighted this, JC would have beaten Ballogou(sp) and Barney in his sleep with his arms tied behind his back

I see Francis as a sort of Haye prototype. Vulnerable puncher with some excellent skills. Regardless of what you think of Calzaghe v Francis, you must agree that Francis was developing superbly as British/Euro champ before the comp level fell off (Kitt Munroe) and the shoulder went v White.

The Ballogou fight, to me, looked like a version of Haye v Thompson. Like Haye, I think Francis skilled up, improved his conditioning and learned how to pace a fight.

I actually think Francis had better skills & power than Joe. But not better stamina and strength. Skill wise, I reckon Francis was a half level above. Just look how they both fared v Starie. Calzaghe flapped and flailed over 12 rds, and Francis broke him down in about 5 or 6. A great might have been fight.

Some feel Francis beat Barney with one arm. I saw h/l and it looked like Barney was winning. He was handicapped and coming off inactivity, Francis. I reckon Calzaghe-Barney is like Calzaghe-Starie - not the kind of fighter Joe (or anyone) looks good against.

The two years age gap is massive difference when we talking 1993. One was a boy, the other is alot closer to a man. You didn't see many 5th formers beating up those in upper 6th form.

And Francis DID beat Barney with one hand, just didn't get the decision. It would have been a hell of a fight - but I do think while I would have given Dean more of a chance against the Yanks (Hopkins, Jones, Toney etc) than Joe - style wise a left handed authordox that Dean is, wouldn't bode well against Joe. You need that right hand, and it was always Francis' weakness - before the injury.

I would have been more confident in Francis beating Ottke than Joe, not that I wouldn't have favoured Joe. Francis could handle back foot counter punchers, better than Joe could.

But he is was teak tough, with stamina, strength and guts - and true one punch KO power. He would have been a handful for anyone.

Autobarn wrote:I see Francis as a sort of Haye prototype. Vulnerable puncher with some excellent skills. Regardless of what you think of Calzaghe v Francis, you must agree that Francis was developing superbly as British/Euro champ before the comp level fell off (Kitt Munroe) and the shoulder went v White.

The Ballogou fight, to me, looked like a version of Haye v Thompson. Like Haye, I think Francis skilled up, improved his conditioning and learned how to pace a fight.

I actually think Francis had better skills & power than Joe. But not better stamina and strength. Skill wise, I reckon Francis was a half level above. Just look how they both fared v Starie. Calzaghe flapped and flailed over 12 rds, and Francis broke him down in about 5 or 6. A great might have been fight.

Some feel Francis beat Barney with one arm. I saw h/l and it looked like Barney was winning. He was handicapped and coming off inactivity, Francis. I reckon Calzaghe-Barney is like Calzaghe-Starie - not the kind of fighter Joe (or anyone) looks good against.

I agree with all except the vulnerability part - Francis had a great chin in his pomp. I do think style wise Calzaghe was all wrong for him though. You need a right hand, Francis never had one.

I can see what you mean. Joe being open to rights. And Francis being one handed at his best (left jab, left hook the main weapons).

I do think that Francis had counter punching abilities, to take that half step back, to get just in range to land and then to be slightly out of range when the counters came.

Francis did seem vulnerable at 168 - ground down by Ballogou (in a fight that seemed to improve Francis), dropped by Kitt Munroe & had flat spells in longer fights he was winning (Baker, in an otherwise very good performance).

Autobarn wrote:I see Francis as a sort of Haye prototype. Vulnerable puncher with some excellent skills. Regardless of what you think of Calzaghe v Francis, you must agree that Francis was developing superbly as British/Euro champ before the comp level fell off (Kitt Munroe) and the shoulder went v White.

The Ballogou fight, to me, looked like a version of Haye v Thompson. Like Haye, I think Francis skilled up, improved his conditioning and learned how to pace a fight.

I actually think Francis had better skills & power than Joe. But not better stamina and strength. Skill wise, I reckon Francis was a half level above. Just look how they both fared v Starie. Calzaghe flapped and flailed over 12 rds, and Francis broke him down in about 5 or 6. A great might have been fight.

Some feel Francis beat Barney with one arm. I saw h/l and it looked like Barney was winning. He was handicapped and coming off inactivity, Francis. I reckon Calzaghe-Barney is like Calzaghe-Starie - not the kind of fighter Joe (or anyone) looks good against.

I think we have to be careful of 'what-could-have-beens', and I write that as a real Francis fan. The bottom line is that Dean never competed at the highest level so we don't know if he could have cut it there. You could easily make a case that he could have been another Richard Williams i.e. looks like an absolute world-beater at domestic/European level with silky-smooth boxing skills etc, but at the top level falls short.
Calzaghe, by contrast, has been there and proved himself beyond all doubt.
I'd also take real issue with the 'better skills' claim - against Lacy and Kessler Joe's timing and footwork were superb, and his ability to switch strategy to take the play away from Kessler was a thing to behold. And that's operating at a level well above any that Dean's ever been in.

The thing is, he showed massive promise, so why not speculate? He deals with guys that Calzaghe, Collins & Woods were having trouble with, and doesn't reach his prime due to injury and you can't help but think what could have happened. Joe was a "British world champion" for years, fighting guys like Woodhall and Reid and having big problems.

Even going by what Calzaghe did do. Much of it was smoke and mirrors, keeping him away from counter punchers, building up a paper record & confidence for 80% of his career.

Reid, Woodhall and Catley all held a title. The talent and the connections were there in Britain in the late 90s.

The man has to be bloody good to come back after all that's happened and TKO Oakey.


Anyway, I think we should look to Francis v Erdei.

Autobarn wrote:The thing is, he showed massive promise, so why not speculate? He deals with guys that Calzaghe, Collins & Woods were having trouble with, and doesn't reach his prime due to injury and you can't help but think what could have happened. Joe was a "British world champion" for years, fighting guys like Woodhall and Reid and having big problems.

Even going by what Calzaghe did do. Much of it was smoke and mirrors, keeping him away from counter punchers, building up a paper record & confidence for 80% of his career.

Reid, Woodhall and Catley all held a title. The talent and the connections were there in Britain in the late 90s.

The man has to be bloody good to come back after all that's happened and TKO Oakey.


Anyway, I think we should look to Francis v Erdei.

Speculation is all well and good and I enjoy it as much as the next man (it's what most of this forum is based on!), I just feel it was stretching things to talk about Dean as a sure thing and was just plain wrong to talk about a one-time Euro-level/fringe world-class prospect as being a skill level above a world champion who'd reigned for so long.