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There was so much talent between the 140-160 lb divisions in the eighties that we didn't get to see the great Roberto Duran in all the matchups that he could have taken, specially given the fact that he was not afraid to go against anybody, anywhere.
Being an eighties obsessive I personally regret that of what I consider to be the greatest five boxers of that era in the 140-160 category (the others being Hagler, Leonard, Hearns) he never faced Aaron Pryor.
What do you think the outcome of such a fight would have been?

I also question Pryors quality of opposition. With the exception of Arguello, Aaron never beat anyone of note. Arguello also started his career as a bantamweight and was nearing the end of his career.

I dont think one can question Pryors chin and will to win but would that be enough to beat Duran?

tomato can wrote:I also question Pryors quality of opposition. With the exception of Arguello, Aaron never beat anyone of note.

Hall of Famer Antonio Cervantes "Kid Pambele" would be offended by that remark.

He was an outstanding fighter with 22 title fights, including 16 title defences. His only 3 losses in title fights came against Hall of Famers: Nicolino Locche, Wilfred Benitez and Pryor.
That said, the fact is that "The Hawk" beat him when he was 35 yrs old, and only 5 of his 105 bouts were in the US.

Now, getting back to Duran-Pryor it would have been a hell of a fight but like Tomato and bollocks before me I don't think that Pryor would have been able to hurt Duran as much as he hurt Arguello (the toughest fighter he ever met), and thus Duran would have come out victorious on a UD win.

No one ever really hurt Duran below 147 lbs. By that I mean that if Pryor had a remarkable chin then Roberto's was iron-cast.
And yes, DeJesus knocked him down and outclassed him in 72, but if you watch that fight you'll see that Duran was down but there was never a possibility of him being stopped.
The only chance you had with "Manos de Piedra" at that weight was to outbox him like DeJesus did the first time (and even then it didn't work the 2nd or 3rd time around) or as Leonard in the infamous "no mas" rematch and Benitez (at 154 lbs) also did.
That was something the great Aaron Pryor could have never done.

ah...the possibilty of a Duran/Pryor match was actually discussed, and each time it was Pryor practically went home and hid under his bed.

A Howard Davis/Pryor match would have been a big draw in Cincinnati, as Davis beat Pryor for the Olympic spot, and Pryor said "No thank you.' For a while his promoter had fits because Pryor wouldn't fight anyone who was TALLER than he was.

For the best assessment of Pryor, move up a space or two and read Tomato Can again.

Cervantes was considered ripe for the picking....35 and through a lot of wars and perfect for a young, strong aggessive fighter like Pryor, and he even had a title in a division that didn't have much going on at that time.

Jaclem wrote: A Howard Davis/Pryor match would have been a big draw in Cincinnati, as Davis beat Pryor for the Olympic spot, and Pryor said "No thank you.' For a while his promoter had fits because Pryor wouldn't fight anyone who was TALLER than he was.

Arguello was 4 inches taller than Pryor, though.

And at the time of that first fight and although it wasn't at his natural weight, Alexis did not look like he was about to retire. It was in fact those two devastating defeats by Pryor what actually ended his career. So I don't think its fair to say that Pryor beat someone who was on his way out.

I agree with you on Cervantes, they set him up for the slaughter bringing him to Cincinatti. And unlike Arguello, it was certain that he was nearing the end of his career.

Classic match up, what would i give to have seen this fight happen, Pryor was a helluva fighter with incredible combinations this fight would be close but a prime Duran was something else, i say Duran wins UD or possible stoppage.

Another fight that i would haved loved to see is Pryor vs Chavez in a 1998 issue of KO Magazine they had 50 gretatest dream matches of all time and the one that cought my attention the most was Chavez vs Pryor they pick Chavez in an exciting and hard fought UD win, I aslo pick Chavez for thereason being that he loved it when fighters came straight at em and thats exactly what pryor would do both fighters would have their moments but i highly doubt it that pryor would drop Chavez(who has one of the best chins history). Many people forget how great Chavez was in his prime his defense was underrated and when he wanted he could box beautifuly ofcourse as he started to age he relied more on his iron chin and power but in his prime he was the complete fighting machine. This would b a fight for the ages Chavez win SD.

Bythe time Pryor got to Arguello he was more confident and the height and other things he was selective about weren't an issue any more. Those were on his way up when the purses weren't big and he was afraid of losing, and stopping his progress more than afraid in the sense of being afraid of taking a beating. In the latter sense, he was virtually fearless....unless you snuck up in back of him and said "Duran!"

Pryor would have KO'ed Duran big time.........no contest.

Costello went down to Arguello in the fourth round and Rooney in the second. I'd hardly say he was desperate, and if they were outboxing him and he still whacked them that fast, that proves he had the power to fight at that weight.

My impression was always that when Duran abandoned lightweight (where he was having a hard time making weight anymore), he was pointing to Sugar Ray Leonard almost from the start. He never stopped over at lightwelter, where Pryor was just making a name for himself in 1979-80. By 1982, when Pryor-Duran would have been huge, Duran had moved up again and was taking fights at light-middleweight and even at middleweight. If they had fought, Pryor probably would have had to go up to 154; Duran never came down in weight for a fight prior to 1996. And at 154, Duran would kill him.

Duran had so many big paydays available to him that there was no reason to chase this one. And Pryor pissed away the second half of his career, when he might have gone up too, with drugs. I'd say it was just a matter of timing that we missed out on them meeting. If he'd stayed clean, he probably would have faced Duran and Hearns, and possibly Leonard and Hagler, before he retired.

Flex...I understand you think Pryor would beat Duran and thats fine. You have your opinion and there is nothing wrong with that but you are getting back to the habit of trying to demean posters and give the impression that you are more knowledgeable when that is not the case. You have knowledge but it is not superior to the posters here and it is not inferior either.

Example: I state that Pryor beat no one of note except possibly Arguello and I get WHAT like I dont know what I am talking about. I am fully aware he beat Cervantes. I am also Fully aware that Cervantes already had almost 100 fights, was 35 years old, had few fights outside of South America and Pryors management considered him prime for the picking and no longer the great "Kid Pambele"

You should know by now who the knowledgeable posters are and who the "kids" are. So go ahead and disagree with the wiser posters but PLEASE stop thinking your knowledge is superior because it just is not.

No, I didn't see those fights, and I take your word for it that he might have been taking more than he was giving, but when you whack one guy in the second round and one in the fourth round with one punch KO's, then you have what it takes to compete at that level.

Besides, even if Costello and Rooney were winning on points early on, whose to say it would have continued that way? In a 15-round fight, I know I'd put my money on Alexis Arguello against 99.9 percent of the 140-pounders who ever put on gloves.

Furthermore, I have seen the Arguello-Pryor fights. Arguello looked like a damn good light welterweight boxer to me.

Mr. Flex,
You have voiced so many categoricals that I found it hard to resist to respectfully disagree with you. Note that I said respectfully, because I have noticed (like Tomato Can before me) that you have a tendency to get vicious when one does not share your opinion. Like your admired Mayorga you come out with a flurry of wild punches and the whole thing degenerates into a cantina brawl. Please dont let that happen this time

flex wrote:
Alexis Arguello was one of the worst guys Pryor fought in his championship reign just the most seasoned and knew how to survive.

One of the worst? Let's pause for a moment and take a look at the illustrous roster of Pryor challengers: Gaetan Hart, Lennox Blackmoore, Dujuan Johnson, Miguel Montilla, Akio Kameda (?), Sag-Hyun Kim (?????), Nick Furlano and Gary Hinton. To say that Arguello ranks as one of the worst in that list is almost sacrilegious.
Also, in the Miami fight Alexis was not just managing to survive, he was putting out everything he had, which in the end turned out not to be enough at jr welter (like you have fairly pointed out)

flex wrote: For what I hear even Costello and Kevin Ronney were out boxing him untill he landed a desperate shots to end them.

Arguello's style of a patient technician did not give the impression that he was about to unleash the right hand that earned him the nickname "El explosivo". So to the careless or uneducated fight fan when he finally flattened his opponents it gave the impression that it had been a desperate shot. For the time being, I'm assuming you didn't watch those fights (specially vs Rooney)

flex wrote: Arguello would have been better off if he never left feather.

I probably would not be writing this had Arguello not gone and dominated the superfeatherweight and lightweight divisions like he did. By that I mean that watching him obliterate a great champion like Alfredo Escalera twice, or destroying serious contenders like Bobby Chacon and Bazooka Limon, plus his masterful performance in London against Jim Watt and the extraordinary lesson he taught the young Ray Mancini, are a few of the reasons that I am a boxing fan.
He had outgrown the featherweights in 1976, 6 years before the 1st Pryor fight and went undefeated in 14 title bouts at the divisions you think he should have never gone up to,
And of course, and more importantly if he had stayed a featherweight we would have missed one of the most memorable battles of the eighties (Ring fight of the year 82), so for your own sake I should advise you to reconsider that statement.

flex wrote: Pryor definatly had better opposition at jr. welter then Duran had a lightweight.

Now this one I took personally, because if "El flaco" Alexis caught my imagination in the seventies, then "Manos de Piedra" reaches divine proportions on my history book. Then I hesitated thinking maybe I'm a little biased, you know, and just think too highly of Duran because I can almost trace back my childhood memories linking them up with when or who he fought.
Then I thought about Roberto's coming into the scene against Ken Buchanan in MSG, and his revenge against the outstanding DeJesus in 74 or his 13th round kayo of the tricky Vilomar Fernandez (who beat Arguello in 1978) and gained back my composure when I realized you couldn't be right.

There's and old saying that goes something like "It is much easier to modify an opinion if one has not already persuasively declared it."
You should keep that in mind before you come out swinging again

tomato can wrote:Flex...I understand you think Pryor would beat Duran and thats fine. You have your opinion and there is nothing wrong with that but you are getting back to the habit of trying to demean posters and give the impression that you are more knowledgeable when that is not the case. You have knowledge but it is not superior to the posters here and it is not inferior either.

Example: I state that Pryor beat no one of note except possibly Arguello and I get WHAT like I dont know what I am talking about. I am fully aware he beat Cervantes. I am also Fully aware that Cervantes already had almost 100 fights, was 35 years old, had few fights outside of South America and Pryors management considered him prime for the picking and no longer the great "Kid Pambele"

You should know by now who the knowledgeable posters are and who the "kids" are. So go ahead and disagree with the wiser posters but PLEASE stop thinking your knowledge is superior because it just is not.

Oh hell yes. Loved every word in that post.

i think too many forget, or perhaps have never seen, Pryor's pattern in his pre-Arguello fights. It was usually the same. He'd come storming out and attack furiously for the first couple of rounds. If he didn't get his guy out of there, he'd settle into a different pace.... still fast but moved around and boxed more, coming in and going out. His sustained attack against Arguello , round after round until the finish was a surprise to those who had followed him. We wondered what would happen when he slowed down, but, thanks to the nectar of the Gods of Mt. Olympus, he never did.

If he fought Duran ( after being told by his handlers, to keep him from fainting) that he was fighting someone else , and with a bottle containing only water being poured to him, and if he survived his own early onslaught and slowed down, Duran would take him apart in sections.

I'll say it again and then vanish from this post:

Pryor could still make the lightweight limit when Duran was Champion, and peeing in his pants at the weigh in would shed even a few more pounds. He went for the junior welter title for the reasons that have already been covered here. He did not want to and would not have gotten into the ring with Roberto Duran.

Predictions for Duran-Pryor:

With his magic water bottle, Pryor makes it a tough, competitive fight.

WITHOUT his magic water bottle, Pryor gets his overrated ass clobbered.

flex wrote:

2. In 79 Dejesus was at the same poin as Campas is right now. Just when Duran looked invincible in 72 he got beaten.

You're saying DeJesus was washed up in '79? DeJesus was a champion then (which Campas hasn't been for a long time), and besides, Duran had already beaten DeJesus several years before that.

Duran wasn't "just looking invincible" yet in '72... he had only just won the title, and I don't even think he'd defended it yet. People really weren't quite sure what to make of him yet.

I also feel very strongly he was out of shape in the first DeJesus fight. He weighed about 5 or 6 pounds heavier than he did against Buchanan, and he looked pudgy and slow with the extra weight.

The Cuban Hawk wrote:Predictions for Duran-Pryor:

With his magic water bottle, Pryor makes it a tough, competitive fight.

WITHOUT his magic water bottle, Pryor gets his overrated ass clobbered.

You're and idiot..............Pryor would KO that dumbass in about 3 rounds.

David Mills wrote:You're and idiot..............Pryor would KO that dumbass in about 3 rounds.

Try learning to spell before you call anyone a dumbass.

flex wrote:

The Cuban Hawk wrote:

flex wrote:

2. In 79 Dejesus was at the same poin as Campas is right now. Just when Duran looked invincible in 72 he got beaten.

You're saying DeJesus was washed up in '79? DeJesus was a champion then (which Campas hasn't been for a long time), and besides, Duran had already beaten DeJesus several years before that.

Ali was also a champion when he lost to Leon Spinks
. So what's your point

Dejesus was clearly starting to fade when he lost to Duran


still prime Duran vs fading Dejesus resluted in Duran W by KO.

Prime Dejesus vs Prime Duran resulted in Dejesus winning a decsion.

Ali was about 37 when he lost to Spinks. How old was DeJesus?

Duran and DeJesus were both the same age and had been fighting for about the same number of years.

And besides, Prime Duran vs. definitely prime DeJesus also resulted in a W by KO for Duran. What's your excuse for that one?

flex wrote:


Actually Dejesus died in 89 from Cerebral Palsy from taking punches.

Wrong. He died of AIDS.

It would help if you use the words "I think" before you make statements

Please Flex..As I said, you have knowledge but it is not superior to the posters here. Broncano is correct. Dejesus died of aids on 5-12-89 In San Juan, Puerto Rico while serving a life term in prison for shooting a teenager.

Sources:

Mike Delisa of the CBZ
Ring Magazine
The Editors of Boxrec

It was also reported on ESPN Classic Fights.

I know, I know. They're all wrong and you're right.

tomato can wrote:Please Flex..As I said, you have knowledge but it is not superior to the posters here. Broncano is correct. Dejesus died of aids on 5-12-89 In San Juan, Puerto Rico while serving a life term in prison for shooting a teenager.

Sources:

Mike Delisa of the CBZ
Ring Magazine
The Editors of Boxrec

It was also reported on ESPN Classic Fights.

I know, I know. They're all wrong and you're right.

Thank you Tomato. This kid really hurt my feelings.

Now for real, On a previous post I asked him respectfully not to get vicious because I disagreed with what he said, and he goes on and does it again.

Then I realized that when Duran went to pay De Jesus a visit on his deathbed, this kid was probably watching Barnie or the Thundercats. Hell! the first time he heard about Esteban De Jesus was in 1996!!!!