BoxRec

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96KfeAFakak

Particularly round 4

I've been following this sport rabidly since I was 14 years old (way) back in 1976, so I've seen thousands upon thousands of heavyweight fights. And IMO, Foreman - Lyle still stands up as the best ever given the talent & status of the individuals involved, as well as the importance of the contest at the time & historically.

Wow never seen that fight before. Loved it! That 4th round is right up there with Haggler Hearns round 1!!!

Great fight, wrong forum

Jaywheel wrote:Great fight, wrong forum

Are you with the police?

I'm with Jaywheel. Most of the forum-goers in Current Scene have no clue about boxing history.

The thread'd be better served in Boxers Of The Past, where discussion is more consistently centered around fighters, & not fighting.

Just off the top of my head, Michael Moorer vs. Bert Cooper was better. So was Ken Norton vs. Larry Holmes. As I recall, the first few rounds of Foreman/Lyle were kind of ordinary, then the last two or three rounds were an absolute war.

rampage wrote:Just off the top of my head, Michael Moorer vs. Bert Cooper was better. So was Ken Norton vs. Larry Holmes. As I recall, the first few rounds of Foreman/Lyle were kind of ordinary, then the last two or three rounds were an absolute war.

You recall mistakenly. Lyle visibly hurt Foreman in round one. Foreman returned the favour in the second.

The dullest round was the third, & it was not sleep-inducing material, either. The fourth & fifth rounds were titanic in their action. It was a brilliant, brilliant war.

Yeah, it actually is in the wrong place but I agree the fight is pretty wild. All the fights mentioned so far, Cooper-Moorer. Cooper didn't have much luck in his career. Another great fight involving Moorer was when he was still at light heavy against unheralded but personal fave Leslie Stewart. Stewart fought furiously in that fight, but that's when Moorer was kind of a small Tyson. Norton-Holmes, oh yeah.

Good call on Moorer-Stewart. People forget how frightening Moorer was as a Light-Heavy. I rue him not staying in the division longer & developing there, because he gave you the glimpse of something big on the horizon. It wasn't to be, & to be fair to Moorer, he made his name (& money) as a capable (perhaps underrated?) Heavyweight.

Moorer (late 80's) vs. Jones (late 90's) at Light-Heavy would've been a grand spectacle.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

rampage wrote:Just off the top of my head, Michael Moorer vs. Bert Cooper was better. So was Ken Norton vs. Larry Holmes. As I recall, the first few rounds of Foreman/Lyle were kind of ordinary, then the last two or three rounds were an absolute war.

You recall mistakenly. Lyle visibly hurt Foreman in round one. Foreman returned the favour in the second.

The dullest round was the third, & it was not sleep-inducing material, either. The fourth & fifth rounds were titanic in their action. It was a brilliant, brilliant war.

Just rewatched the fight--I stand by my assessment, though I'll modify it a little. Round 1 was very average until the last 30 seconds--they did almost nothing but jab, then Lyle hurt Foreman and the last 30 seconds were good. Round 2 was a very entertaining round, though still not what I would call "great". Round 3 was ok, better than a lot of rounds of boxing, but again, not great. Then rounds 4 and 5 were absolutely fantastic.

So it was definitely a very good fight, better than most of the crap in today's heavyweight division, but I do not think it is the best heavyweight fight ever--the two I named were certainly better (in my opinion, of course), and I'm sure I could come up with some more if I sat down and thought about it.

I wouldn't rush to calling it the best in history, either, though I do rank it up there. I certainly have it ahead of Moorer-Cooper (just my opinion --- & that is, also, a great scrap, though between two lesser punchers).

Dempsey-Firpo is another. Though much more one-sided than those two fights, I still think it ranks as an all-time spectacle.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I wouldn't rush to calling it the best in history, either, though I do rank it up there. I certainly have it ahead of Moorer-Cooper (just my opinion --- & that is, also, a great scrap, though between two lesser punchers).

Dempsey-Firpo is another. Though much more one-sided than those two fights, I still think it ranks as an all-time spectacle.

See, I like Cooper/Moorer better because the action is a little more sustained throughout, and because they started trading knockdowns right away. To me, it is basically a better version of Foreman/Lyle--a very similar fight, but to me a little more entertaining.

I don't think I can call Dempsey-Firpo a great fight. Bert Sugar calling it the best fight in history just makes me look at him and think, "huh?" It really was a pretty crappy fight, I think. Other than Dempsey getting knocked out of the ring (which, admittedly, is noteworthy), the fight pretty well sucked. It was ugly and completely one-sided, other than the aforementioned event.

You all have missed a valuable quotient of this fight....Howard Cossell !!
Watch AND listen.

Yes, Howard Cosell's enthusiasm!!!!!

actjac wrote:You all have missed a valuable quotient of this fight....Howard Cossell !!
Watch AND listen.

Poor Kenny Norton never had a prayer trying vainly to get a word in edge-wise D

Norton: "Howard, I think now---"

Cosell: "Oh! Another right by Lyle. Another right by Lyle nearly ended it..."

rampage wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I wouldn't rush to calling it the best in history, either, though I do rank it up there. I certainly have it ahead of Moorer-Cooper (just my opinion --- & that is, also, a great scrap, though between two lesser punchers).

Dempsey-Firpo is another. Though much more one-sided than those two fights, I still think it ranks as an all-time spectacle.

See, I like Cooper/Moorer better because the action is a little more sustained throughout, and because they started trading knockdowns right away. To me, it is basically a better version of Foreman/Lyle--a very similar fight, but to me a little more entertaining.

I don't think I can call Dempsey-Firpo a great fight. Bert Sugar calling it the best fight in history just makes me look at him and think, "huh?" It really was a pretty crappy fight, I think. Other than Dempsey getting knocked out of the ring (which, admittedly, is noteworthy), the fight pretty well sucked. It was ugly and completely one-sided, other than the aforementioned event.

Cooper-Mercer and Mercer-Witherspoon are two other exciting though lesser profiled HW fights that
give one some good excitement. Lyle-Foreman was damned entertaining, but I prefer Moorer-Cooper
viewing wise.

Firpo-Dempsey is one of those fights we will be told is the greatest and is the ultimate HW back and
forth fight. So long as cigar smoking drunks write books we will never have another fight nearly as
great as this one. For me...I can think of 100s of more fights I would rather watch before this one ..
again.

Behind Chacon v Lopez 4, my second favourite fight of all time. If only it was for the title it would add to its legacy.

Smokin' Bert Cooper-Ray Mercer was good!

Greatest HW fight ever in my opinion is Ali-Frazier I, but Lyle-Foreman is up there.

Holmes-Norton was great but many of the rounds were too one-sided in favor of Holmes IMO for it to be considered tops.

Patterson-Chuvalo, Bowe-Holyfield I, Louis-Schmeling I (much more competitive than most revisionist history would make it out to be), and Baer-Nova I also fantastic HW scraps.

dempseyfire wrote:Greatest HW fight ever in my opinion is Ali-Frazier I, but Lyle-Foreman is up there.

Holmes-Norton was great but many of the rounds were too one-sided in favor of Holmes IMO for it to be considered tops.

Patterson-Chuvalo, Bowe-Holyfield I, Louis-Schmeling I (much more competitive than most revisionist history would make it out to be), and Baer-Nova I also fantastic HW scraps.

Have to agree with you there DF.

Can Not fault any of those selections there. I have not seen Baer-Nova though :(

Baer-Galento (which I've not seen highlighted in years) is another barn-burner.

Rarely do you see a fighter win a bout in which he is so desperately teetering on the cusp of being knocked out.

It wasn't just the way the fourth round finished --- Foreman was rocking & rolling all over the place in the fifth, as well.

Overlooking the fact he was expected to win easily going in (5-1 betting favourite), Foreman showed some balls, you have to hand it to the man.

Disagree with Baer-Galento. It was horrible. Galento held on for dear life most of the fight. (It's on Youtube)
Agree with Foreman-Lyle. It was great. The amount of haymakers they threw was awesome. Foreman sowed a lot of heart in that one.
I always thought Patterson-Johansson III was underrated.

I'll have to look Baer-Galento up, thanks for the tip. I haven't seen it in years, but I remember a pretty exciting contest. A lot of bitterness between the two men.

Outstanding call on Patterson-Johansson III. Anyone know where the third bout is available in its entirety? I have not been able to track a copy.

That was a brilliant, brilliantly exciting fight, & it is under-appreciated to a criminal degree.

Baer-Galento is entertaining but sloppy as hell. Both guys really forgoed any boxing they had learned the prior ten years and just went for the haymaker. Not a great fight by any means but fun to watch.

Johansson-Patterson 3 is a great fight for two rounds but then both guys got pretty gassed and the quality drops a great deal IMO.

Holmes-Weaver is an under-rated gem.