BoxRec

Would Muhammad Ali have beaten Joe Louis record if he wasn't forced into 3 year exile?

(Joe louis did a military stint, one has to wonder how many title fights he would have had if not for that)

Unlikely, but not out of the realm of possibility. He was quite the active champ, with nine defenses in three years. Frazier was ready to go by as early as late 1969, & if Ali was still champ by that time, the match definitely would've been made no later than early 1970.

Whoever would've won, there would've been a rematch. I feel confident Ali would've lost at least one of those two fights, & if he didn't, he could always take Frazier's place as the lazy, non-chalant titleist who walked right into Foreman. Don't laugh, it could've happened that way. No one's invincible to their own press clippings. Ali did, after all, lose to Norton, in part because of complacency.

Ali would have stayed active and would have given a good
mix of fighters a shot. We would have some interesting bouts.

Foreman may of had a shot 71-72.

Frazier 69-70 would have been interesting. I feel Frazier would
have won this match...and like GI says a rematch would always
have been on the cards.

One could also argue that had Louis been able to fight during
WW2, he may have got a lot more title defences in as it is
unlikely he would have been defeated...though he also
could have burnt out sooner too...

Its interesting that some past 'greats' have on their records
exhibitions whether they be leading up to their title reign
or during...yet Ali and Louis who seemed to have quite a
few exhibitions and some competitive ones at that do not have
those on their records.

Some double standards a foot..

I think if anone in history could have beaten Joe Louis' 25 title defences, it would have been Muhammad or Larry Holmes...

That said, Louis fought a "beat a bum" every month in back in 1941... Then he didn't defend his title for 2 and a half years (due to the second world war and him doing exhibionist fights)...

So if you're going to talk about Ali being stripped of his title and possibly beating Joe's record... You have to think how many Joe could have had without the 2nd world war....

Crease wrote:I think if anone in history could have beaten Joe Louis' 25 title defences, it would have been Muhammad or Larry Holmes...

That said, Louis fought a "beat a bum" every month in back in 1941... Then he didn't defend his title for 2 and a half years (due to the second world war and him doing exhibionist fights)...

So if you're going to talk about Ali being stripped of his title and possibly beating Joe's record... You have to think how many Joe could have had without the 2nd world war....

Already mentioned in the very first post.

Crease wrote: So if you're going to talk about Ali being stripped of his title and possibly beating Joe's record... You have to think how many Joe could have had without the 2nd world war....

Without WWII Louis would never have gone on his bum-of-the-month tour.

wouter wrote:
Without WWII Louis would never have gone on his bum-of-the-month tour.

How so? I'm not doubting what you're saying, I just need more info as to why you think that.

What span is it that journalists consider the bum of the month time for Louis? Was that 1941?

If Ali had gone in the army, would he have done the same as Louis(exhibition bouts and all)?

"Bum of month" research, I guess it was in the period of 1938 and 1939

Following this successful title defense against Welsh boxer Tommy Farr in a 15-round marathon match, Louis initiated his "Bum of the Month" campaign. The idea was for Louis to take on a variety of fighters, whether they were contenders or not.

During this period, on the day of June 22, 1938, Louis once again took on the only opponent who had ever beaten him, Max Schmeling. This time around, Louis knocked Schmeling out and captured the admiration of countless Americans. Louis gained a moral victory for himself and for his country, and simultaneously struck a damaging blow to Hitler and his pretentious beliefs.

Louis' first punches, a pair of powerful left hooks, began his opponent's eventual demise. Schmeling complained bitterly about being hit with foul kidney punches, but every punch was a fair one. The fight was nothing short of ridiculous, with Schmeling falling to the floor in just two minutes and four seconds.

It was this time period that bore witness to Louis' reign of terror in the heavyweight boxing world. Beginning in 1937, he began a 12-year reign as boxing's heavyweight champion of the world. During this stretch, Louis had victories over Lou Nova, Tony Galento, Gus Dorazio, Buddy Baer, and Johnny Paycheck. Louis' epic battle with Billy Conn at the Polo Grounds also occurred during this time.

The Contenders During Louis 'Inactivity'

Elmer 'Violent' Ray (81-12-2, 62)

Turkey Thompson (54-15-2, 39)

Roscoe Toles (38-10-6, 14)

Lee Q Murray (59-17-3, 42)

Lem Franklin (32-13-1, 28)

This does not include the likes of Walcott, Charles, Conn, and other contenders Louis would later meet after his stint in WW2 or before, such as Lee Savold and Jimmy Bivins. You could also throw in such guys as Buddy Knox (103-40-5, 44), if you wish, but its likely Knox would have been knocked out rather easily. Many other contenders such as Harry Bobo (36-9-0, 24) and Buddy Walker (79-31-5, 36) fought for State/Regional titles while Louis was in the Army.


The Contenders During Ali's 'Inactivity'


Jimmy Ellis

Leotis Martin

Oscar Bonavena

Joe Frazier

Thad Spencer

Jerry Quarry

Floyd Patterson

Sonny Liston

Ironically enough, outside of Spencer and Martin, Ali had already done vanquished the likes of Patterson and Liston before his exile, and would come back to later defeat the likes of these men after his return in 1970; so one must assume, that outside of Frazier, Ali would have more than likely defeated all of these men, but would have probably burned out quicker than he did.