BoxRec

Has he retired, been very AWOL since the Gomez fight. I still think he had a fair amount to offer the domestic scene.

He's fought since Gomez, in a cracker against Mitchell.

Sorry, too much Christmas wine - I meant since the Mitchell fight in March.

You're right though, he does have a lot to offer still. He had Mitchell hurt a good few times, who's an awesome talent.

Mitchell an awesome talent?

Yes, I think so, when he decides to not get in a scrap.

But but but... he always gets into a scrap.

Perhaps that could be his downfall then, but, that's not to say that the boy doesn't have talent, because his skills are awesome and he has a big heart. You gotta remember too, these are fights he will learn and undoubtedly improve from.

To be honest Mitchell has never impressed me, decent domestic fighter and perhaps will reach europeon standered but he is no where near true world class. As for Johansson I always liked watching him fight but he seemed to have lost the plot somewhere in his last few bouts, I heard runours that he hadnt been training properly etc... I still think theres things for him to do at the domestic level if he's 100% focused... despite the mitchell result I would still rate Carl over Mitchell...

fatcity69 wrote:despite the mitchell result I would still rate Carl over Mitchell...

How? I think Mitchell would quite likely beat Johanneson a lot more easily in a rematch.

I really like Johannesson and enjoyed his scrap with Gomez.

But he capitulated against Leva Kirakosyan (who Gomez knocked out some years previously in about 5 rounds or so)

Interestingly, Kirakosyan was completely whitewashed by Sergi Gulkevich something like 120-108 a fight or two afterwards.

Sergi lost against Alex Arthur after the quack thought his accidental cut was too bad for him to continue. He was a slick boxer if i remember right.

Which brings us back to Gomez again, who knocked out Arthur.

Just goes to show that in his prime, nobody could live with Michael Gomez at european level - if only he could have kept on track more eh ?

Gomez was wiping the floor with guys who then in turn, wiped the floor with Johannesson.... who some years later wiped the floor with Gomez.

G0mez wrote:I really like Johannesson and enjoyed his scrap with Gomez.

But he capitulated against Leva Kirakosyan (who Gomez knocked out some years previously in about 5 rounds or so)

Interestingly, Kirakosyan was completely whitewashed by Sergi Gulkevich something like 120-108 a fight or two afterwards.

Sergi lost against Alex Arthur after the quack thought his accidental cut was too bad for him to continue. He was a slick boxer if i remember right.

Which brings us back to Gomez again, who knocked out Arthur.

Just goes to show that in his prime, nobody could live with Michael Gomez at european level - if only he could have kept on track more eh ?

Gomez was wiping the floor with guys who then in turn, wiped the floor with Johannesson.... who some years later wiped the floor with Gomez.

I don't know about wiping the floor with Kirakosyan exactly - I was ringside for that one and I and several others were shouting a Gomez to hold on after being badly rocked (can't remember which round) he fought through it and managed to get the win (he had far fewer miles on the clock in those days!), but there were certainly unnerving points in the fight..

Wasn't Kirakosyan a bit of a late notice job vs Gomez?

Kirakosyan gave Gomez all the trouble he could handle. He went on to improve and whipped Carl twice.

Mitchell came of age against Johannson and now he knows he can compete at this level will only get better IMO. Carl's best chance of beating Mitchell has been and gone.

Something went seriously wrong with Carl, after his acrimonious split from his Promotor / Manager in Leeds.
At the time he was riding on the crest of a wave - and got that "footie" thing going with Leeds United which brought a lot of casual boxing fans along.
I think if memory serves me right, Carl won his case against the Promotor / Manager who was ordered to pay him back £6k and the guy got suspended as well.
Since then his career has gone backwards.
He spent some time with the Ingles preparing for fights but not sure if that applies now.
Hope he can get refocused and make another charge, at least at domestic level.

Carl's a great guy who's spent his life somewhere between bad luck and no luck. He's been treated very badly by a few people. He should have built on his recent success but he's just dissapeared.

twenty six wrote:Something went seriously wrong with Carl, after his acrimonious split from his Promotor / Manager in Leeds.
At the time he was riding on the crest of a wave - and got that "footie" thing going with Leeds United which brought a lot of casual boxing fans along.
I think if memory serves me right, Carl won his case against the Promotor / Manager who was ordered to pay him back £6k and the guy got suspended as well.
Since then his career has gone backwards.
He spent some time with the Ingles preparing for fights but not sure if that applies now.
Hope he can get refocused and make another charge, at least at domestic level.

Carl's dip in form has coincided with him not training with the Ingles

Not sure I agree, P-S. Carl looked good against Gomez. I just think Kirakosvyan had his number.

I'd like to see Johannesson vs Arthur at Lightweight, well thats if Arthur is moving up.

stujones wrote:I'd like to see Johannesson vs Arthur at Lightweight, well thats if Arthur is moving up.

That would be a good one.

Dioufy wrote:Perhaps that could be his downfall then, but, that's not to say that the boy doesn't have talent, because his skills are awesome and he has a big heart. You gotta remember too, these are fights he will learn and undoubtedly improve from.

dioufy i have the same problem with Mitchell's supposed 'awesome' skill level- which he supposedly compromises by electing to stand and trade- as I did with Erik Morales (now come on, stay with me on this one i know that's a bad start to an argument.... )

to me when a fighter continually and repeatedly gets himself into the kind of fight he possibly shouldn't be in/ doesn't suit him, I have to wonder if it's either a failing of basic technique, or temperament, or both. take Morales, to me his skills weren't what people say they were (chin too often in the air, little head movement, often wide/ arm punching)

so i have to wonder with Mitchell, if it'ssimply a mentality problem that gets him fighting and not boxing, or if it's more fundamental (lack of head movement for one thing means he gets into brawls he should be in, as he takes shots he shouldn't take). his lateral movement's okay but to me his defence seems a bit leaky not by commission but by ommission, he's just neglecting fundamentals a little, or more than a little.

not to be a **** about it but to me fighters with awesome skill levels aren't getting hit repeatedley about the head by a johansson type, and to me that's as much fundamentals lacking as it is 'always getting into a scarp', if that makes sense.

to me he has to work on fundamentals as well as having more of a boxer's not brawler's attitude. cos if he fought better than Johansson, even with a more cautious attitude, the fundamental defectswill result in him getting involved in scraps whether he likes it or not. i swear i could have made that point about 5x moreconcisely, sorry :)

I see what you mean, but when Mitchell stops trading and actually boxes then he wins round comfortably. Sadly, he can't help himself and I had him behind in both the Johannesson and Estrada fights up until he stopped his man. He reminds me a bit like John Duddy, in that when he uses he head and boxes, he does quite well. Take that Smichet fight for example, when he tried to knock him spark out and trade he looked like horse crap, but when he started leading and setting up attacks with his jab, he easily out-boxed Smichet and looked very good throughout the last four rounds. It's as if he has to shake off his egotistical demeanour and to stop trying to get into the cliqued Rocky-like type battles. If he does that then I reckon he could be a world champion in a few years.

You're probably right when you say he has a mental problem. He needs to learn how to take a shot without trying to knock the other guy out with the very next shot. Maybe "awesome skills" was an overstatement, but the boy definitely has talent.

aye

you know what mate i think there is a compromise position here

Mitchell's offensive skills, especially like you saywhen he jabs,are IMO clearly ahead of his defence and ringcraft. thatswhat he needs to sort, IMO.

Yep, spot on I think. Defence, lackluster at best. Offence, pretty impressive.

Pugilist-specialist wrote:

twenty six wrote:Something went seriously wrong with Carl, after his acrimonious split from his Promotor / Manager in Leeds.
At the time he was riding on the crest of a wave - and got that "footie" thing going with Leeds United which brought a lot of casual boxing fans along.
I think if memory serves me right, Carl won his case against the Promotor / Manager who was ordered to pay him back £6k and the guy got suspended as well.
Since then his career has gone backwards.
He spent some time with the Ingles preparing for fights but not sure if that applies now.
Hope he can get refocused and make another charge, at least at domestic level.

Carl's dip in form has coincided with him not training with the Ingles

not many fighters seem to prosper oncethey have left the Ingles

For the record I was not suggesting in any way shape or form that Carl's drop in form and his personal problems were remotely connected to Wincobank.
In fact the exact opposite.
I think Wincobank was the perfect choice for him - near enough but far enough from Leeds and his issues there, plus a good gym with quality fighters around him to work with.
Does anyone know where he's training now ?