BoxRec

Here is a list of some of the best and worst boxers that I have actually
seen fight in person....not in the movies, not on TV, but live and in an
arena.

Ezzard Charles (Best boxer/puncher)
Bob Satterfield (Biggest punch)
Freddie Dawson (Best counter puncher)
Beau Jack (Most courageous)
Chuck Davey (Most disappointing)
Howard King (Best dive vs. Archie Moore, Tijuana, 1962)
Muhammad Ali (Most Polarizing personality)
Johnny Bratton (Most capable of losing to anyone. anytime)
Ray "Windmill" White (Funniest man in the ring)
Del Flanagan (Slickest boxer)
Davey Moore (Best boxer with whom I ever shared a dressing
room. May he rest in peace.)

Ya, I remember them.

WOW!!!! this list gets my adrenaline surging!! what a fascinating group. Regular readers here know my near worship of the great Ezzard Charles as both a great great fighter and person......Satterfield, in many ways the most exciting fighter of his time. Incredible punch for a 180 pounder,and bum chin, no training and no defense, so fights were always explosive. Ezz said nobody ever hit him that hard...fought last part of first round on instinct. Freddie Dawson...fought in lightweight and welter divisions and was a subtle and skilled technician. George Costner always said he thought he got the better of Dawson in their draw, but said he was as good a boxer as he ever faced. He laughed though when he said Dawson regretted doing well against Ike Williams a couple of times because he knew Ike was out to get him in their fifteen rounder, and..quoting George" Ooo wee..Freddie was scared Ike was going to kill him. Ike was so mean." When they did meet in their final bout, Dawson pretty much ran and made it an easy one for Williams.

I've been wanting to to a thread on the enigmatic Johnny Bratton for a long time, but have been lazy. This inspires me to get on the stick. No fighter who looked so great in one fight could look as bad in the next. Great skills and punch, brittle bones due to calcium deficiency as a child, so his jaw was subject to breaking as were his hands. plus...well, he was a businessman, as the trade politel puts it.

Saw Beau Jack only at the end of his career, but the fire was still there.

Great thread, Simon. Would love to read more about the specific fights you saw, especially Ezzard's. I'm assuming from the list that you spent some time in Chicago, right? The Windmill White one though indicates you were also on the west coast.

Whatever, thanks for just bringing up the names of these outstanding boxers.

Along with my father, I was at the Chicago Stadium when Beau Jack
broke Johnny Bratton's jaw, scoring an eighth round knockout.

Several months ago, our friend "The Cuban Hawk" wrote that Kid Gavilan
had broken Bratton's jaw in one of their three bouts. I was unaware of this but not surprised since it was well known that Bratton suffered from
fragile bones. Sadly, his pysche was as fragile as his body.

Undoubtedly the saddest years of this man's life were those he spent
as a patient in the state mental hospital at Manteno, Illinois. His attempted
"escape" from the institution and "capture" were covered extensively by
Chicago newspapers.

My cousin's aunt, a matron at the mental facility, told me that Bratton
simply wandered off from a gardening detail and was found soon after
sitting on the street curb just blocks from the hospital. She said
that he was coaxed back easily to his room and that there was no force
or violence on the part of anyone involved.

Jaclem noted that Johnny Bratton was a "businessman" which could probably explain those two strange losses to Holly Mims. Although a tough opponent and a known spoiler, the thought that Mims would take two decisions from Bratton within a three week period was just not believable at the time


Regardless of his fragilities, Johnny Bratton was one tough customer. An
easy way to determine this is by a look at the records of two other great welterweight of that era: Bobby Dykes and Lester Felton. Between the two of them they fought over 220 bouts. Dykes was stopped just twice
in his career while Felton suffered three knockouts....two of those coming
in his last three fights. The man who knocked them both out was, of course, Johnny Bratton. Bratton, himself, was stopped just three times:
By the above mentioned Beau Jack, Ike Williams, and in his last fight by
Del Flanagan.

simon...thanks for the additional info on Bratton. Ray Robinson said that when Bratton was at his best he was as good a welterweight as he ever saw. Bratton's nickname was Honeyhboy, a variation on Sugar Ray.

Gavilan broke Bratton's jaw in their third and final fight and Bratton also broke the knuckles in either one or both hands.

Ten years or so ago there was a guy here in Chicago , a street guy who slept in the park, who claimed to be Johnny Bratton. I saw him at least a couple of times a week and knew he wasn't Bratton because he was just too big. Newspapers wouldn't listen to me, and even his ex wife said it was him. Finally I got a columnist to check him out, and Johnny was found alive an in the institution mentioned in your post.

okay...now no need for me to do a thread, on this erratic, often brilliant and cursed fighter,although when the park guy's story was exposed and Bratton found, the papers said he was living quietly and sometimes happily in his "home"..sometimes got the past mixed up with the present but doing okay considering the circumstances.

I envy those who saw him in person. Just on Tv he was often a marvel to behold.

"Howard King (Best dive vs. Archie Moore, Tijuana, 1962)"

Good one!


As for Bratton, I thought he was good, but not great. Almost every time he stepped it up against a Hall of Famer he failed. He lost to Chalky Wright (who was old), Sammy Angott (also old), Ike Williams (three times), Jack, and was in fact dominated in all three of his fights with Gavy (Gavilan was robbed in their 2nd fight, which was called a draw). The one exception was a young Joe Brown, who Bratton KO'd... but Brown was only a few years into his pro career and losing a lot at that time.

I thought Bratton was talented, but I think his biggest problem was his defense. He just left himself too open when he threw his punches.

BTW, Bratton's jaw and hand were broken in his first (NOT his third) fight with Gavilan. His jaw was also broken against Jack and in one of his fights with Williams (I'm not sure which, but I would guess the one in which Bratton was stopped).

As for Chuck Davey, I know he was a big disappointment but I thought he did really beat Basilio in their 2nd fight. He won by much larger-than-expected margins, but he still deserved the decision anyway IMO, and against a Basilio who came to fight.

Hawk....within the lst few months I read Bratton's comments on his third fight with Gavilan, and he said that as his jaw got broken as well as his hand(s)he didn't see any point in continuing his career, and he did quit a fight or two later. I'll try to dig out the magazine I read it in.

I know Bratton lost against those fighters you mentioned and maybe I overrate him, but when he was really good I think he showed flashes of greatness, but maybe I was just being overly influenced by his flashy style. I fully agree he can't be called a great fighter because he was too inconsistent.

Ray "Windmill" White from Up-North Ventura California,
he was a bald headed white guy who used to leap over
the ropes when he entered the ring. His signature move was
hitting his opponent with both gloves at the same time, somehow
he made it work. Live from the Olympic Autotorium, the last time
I saw him fight was a loss to the underrated Mike Quarry, if my memory
serves me correct. Thanks for sparking those memories I had almost
forgot about the Windmill.

Thanks Simonpure

terap..i too was surprised at the Mims/Bratton results being questioned. I am very high on Bratton, and he did kayo middleweight Tuzo Portuguese...almost turned him upside down, and i think he did well against a couple of others in that division.....but Mims was an outstanding fighter who, on any given night, might have taken anyone near his size. I didn't see either fight and don't recall reading about them. Bratton could blow hot and cold, but even on a good night I think Mims would take him. I certainly would never assume it was one of those "peculiar" losses that are spotted through Brattons' career.

To toss a bouquet to Honeyboy, I think it's to his credit that he even fought Mims, as most managers had a "Do you think I'm nuts" reaction when Mims was mentioned as an opponent .

Once after watching Ray "Windmill" White win a fight at the San Diego
Coliseum, I headed for the men's rest room trying to beat the crowd.
Before I could even get through the door, White leaped over the top ring rope, hit the floor in full
stride, charged into the common facility, pulled his trunks, cup and
supporter down to his knees and with a smile on his face relieved himself
while accepting congratulations from several other startled spectators!

There were, of course, facilities for the boxers in their dressing rooms,
but for White to use such an exclusive convenience just wasn't the way
of the "Windmill." Ray White, also known as "The Fighting
Carpenter" loved his audiences wherever he found them.

Regarding the Bratton-Mims fights, I can only add that at the time Mims
had a 15-6-4 record and his most illustrious opponents were Sunny Bunn
and Terry Moore. Bratton had over 50 fight and ....although he had lost fourteen....his competion included Chalky Wright, Ike Williams, Willie Joyce, Gene Burton, Freddie Dawson, Bernard Docusen and "Dummy"
Hariston.

Let's face it. I was 16-years-old at the time and my hero had just lost
two fights in a row. I was ready to blame his losses on anyone but the
"Honeyboy".

simon..I didn't check the records of Bratton and Mims at the tme of their fight...i was just going on Mim's overall career qualtity. with that few fights, maybe our Honeyboy was ....ah...paying off some debts after all. Hard for me to believe he could be taken by a guy with so few fights, no matter how good Mims was to become.

Oh well...we'll never know. I do envy your having seen Bratton live (compared to my tv watchings) in his his prime...which could flucuate from week to week. When I was in high school in cincinnati a student who moved there from chicago and becamse friends, and we were both followers of boxing,and Bratton was his favorite fighter.

Jaclem wrote:Hard for me to believe he could be taken by a guy with so few fights...

I can... if it's Mims! 8)

I would imagine it might've been a surprise at the time, with Mims having so few fights and all, but in retrospect it doesn't come as a surprise to me at all. I would expect a guy like Mims, at pretty much any time in his career, to beat a guy like Bratton. In fact, I would think Mims probably dominated Bratton in those fights.

Jaclem wrote:Hawk....within the lst few months I read Bratton's comments on his third fight with Gavilan, and he said that as his jaw got broken as well as his hand(s)he didn't see any point in continuing his career, and he did quit a fight or two later. I'll try to dig out the magazine I read it in.

Hard to dispute Bratton himself, but every source I've read, and watching the third fight itself, all indicate that Bratton's bones were not broken in the third fight but in the first fight. In fact, I'm certain they were at least broken in the first fight.

Incidentally, Gavilan was past his prime when he beat Bratton the third time, but he still totally dominated him. That fight should've been stopped in about the 8th round.

Hawk....Bratton's jaw may well have been broken in the earlier fight too. As for the third one being stopped...I saw it when it happened and sometime within the last year I saw it one tape. I don't know which round it was....it was a late one I think, and Bratton is in a corner nad Gavilan hits him with 23 consecutive punches! No way it wouldn't be stopped today, as of course it should have been then. the fight was totally one sided and Bratton ahd no chance to win,so his corner should have called it off when the referee didn't.

As I think about Bratton's chin that was so fragile, it occurred to me that I don't recall ever seeing him get knocked down.

That fight that was a draw was, of course, a home towner, though Bratton looked okay in it. I think The Keed was coasting and setting things up for title fight for the Honeyboy, which did come about.

As for the Mims fights...who knows? they fought twice so maybe the first one was close. but, as I say ??????????