BoxRec

Well, the Khan vs Barrera fight has been discussed in alot of depth elsewhere.... but then I got thinking Barrera is the quality of fighter that I would like to see live just to say "I have".... even if he is slightly passed it.

Then I got thinking, well in the UK we haven't been inundated with "imports" of this quality..... Tszyu, Hearns, Tapia, Winky Wright (well before we knew how longstanding he was).... and even more so a slightly passed his prime all time great legend faced a 21 year old relative novice... in which the novice will start as favourite.

I'm just wondering if Khan wins what is the historical perspective of the win. I mean, Tszyu might have been considered nearer his prime, slightly, than Barrera... but then Hatton was 28 and I would say P4P Barrera in his prime was better than Tszyu.

So how big a win could this be, just because there is no title on the line..... it doesn't feel as big as some of the huge nights and daunting tasks... but just wondering where would you rate this in terms of accomplishments.

stujones wrote:Well, the Khan vs Barrera fight has been discussed in alot of depth elsewhere.... but then I got thinking Barrera is the quality of fighter that I would like to see live just to say "I have".... even if he is slightly passed it.

Then I got thinking, well in the UK we haven't been inundated with "imports" of this quality..... Tszyu, Hearns, Tapia, Winky Wright (well before we knew how longstanding he was).... and even more so a slightly passed his prime all time great legend faced a 21 year old relative novice... in which the novice will start as favourite.

I'm just wondering if Khan wins what is the historical perspective of the win. I mean, Tszyu might have been considered nearer his prime, slightly, than Barrera... but then Hatton was 28 and I would say P4P Barrera in his prime was better than Tszyu.

So how big a win could this be, just because there is no title on the line..... it doesn't feel as big as some of the huge nights and daunting tasks... but just wondering where would you rate this in terms of accomplishments.

there is no way Barrera is anyway near his prime as Tszyu was for the Hatton fight, P4P i would probably agree Barrera was better than Tszyu, but the Tszyu v Hatton fight seemed to mean more in the boxing world imo.

well thats I think because its not for the World title, but the reason why I think in someways (not in all ways obviously) this could be considered bigger is because Khan is 21.

Off course the its not as "big" as the Tszyu fight because well Barrera is no longer the man in the devision - but I still think he could beat the main champion. However, Ricky was far nearer his prime than Khan is.

stujones wrote:well thats I think because its not for the World title, but the reason why I think in someways (not in all ways obviously) this could be considered bigger is because Khan is 21.

Off course the its not as "big" as the Tszyu fight because well Barrera is no longer the man in the devision - but I still think he could beat the main champion. However, Ricky was far nearer his prime than Khan is.

but if Khan gets beat again he probably will never get chance to reach his prime .

True, but be interesting to know how many 21 year old have been the betting favourite against someone of Marco's ability and experience.

If Barrera loses this one and doesn't come back further down the line to show he's still world class, i can't see Khan getting much more credit than Danny Williams when he beat a washed up Tyson.

I think Williams/Tyson was a different kettle of fish but I understand what you are saying.

Barerra clearly isn't that far off world class (if he is at all, defeats to Pac and Marquez are hardly shameful), even with all the physical advantages it would still be a very good win for Khan.

More like Mcuigan-Pedroza than Hatton-Tszyu although maybe not - the abscence of the world title despite their insignificance these days still bugs me.

I think it might be fair to say some prospects have probably had easier world title shots than this fight for Khan?

Goz wrote:I think Williams/Tyson was a different kettle of fish but I understand what you are saying.

Barerra clearly isn't that far off world class (if he is at all, defeats to Pac and Marquez are hardly shameful), even with all the physical advantages it would still be a very good win for Khan.

More like Mcuigan-Pedroza than Hatton-Tszyu although maybe not - the abscence of the world title despite their insignificance these days still bugs me.

I think it might be fair to say some prospects have probably had easier world title shots than this fight for Khan?

McGuigan Pedroza I have always thought wass very similar to Hatton v Tszyu.

Goz wrote:I think Williams/Tyson was a different kettle of fish but I understand what you are saying.

Barerra clearly isn't that far off world class (if he is at all, defeats to Pac and Marquez are hardly shameful), even with all the physical advantages it would still be a very good win for Khan.

More like Mcuigan-Pedroza than Hatton-Tszyu although maybe not - the abscence of the world title despite their insignificance these days still bugs me.

I think it might be fair to say some prospects have probably had easier world title shots than this fight for Khan?

I have to agree with you on this Goz despite our differences on the Sun newspaper , in the future when people look back if there isn't a legitimate world title on the line, are they gonna think the fight was of any significance ?

The key point I brought about was Khan's age. Hatton was nearing his prime - infact some say was at his prime when he fought Tszyu.

Only one I can think of is Ali vs Archie Moore?

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Goz wrote:I think Williams/Tyson was a different kettle of fish but I understand what you are saying.

Barerra clearly isn't that far off world class (if he is at all, defeats to Pac and Marquez are hardly shameful), even with all the physical advantages it would still be a very good win for Khan.

More like Mcuigan-Pedroza than Hatton-Tszyu although maybe not - the abscence of the world title despite their insignificance these days still bugs me.

I think it might be fair to say some prospects have probably had easier world title shots than this fight for Khan?

McGuigan Pedroza I have always thought wass very similar to Hatton v Tszyu.

Yeah I think you're right, it was a bad one to bring up really although I think Pedroza had been struggling for a few years and was a good 3/4 years past his best results when Barry got to him.

I say comparisons to Duran-Moore and/or Delahoya/Chavez, bigger young men against old smaller men.

People can say 'Barrera isn't really a LW and is old' all they want but:

1. In my eyes he beat the Lightweight Ring Champion Marquez, and came closish against P4P no1 Pacquaio only 18 & 24 months prior to him facing off with Khan. He also completely schooled Peden who Campbell twice lost too
2. Yes hes way past prime, but hes truly an ATG, perhaps the greatest 122lber ever and in terms of skill less than a handfull of fighters in the game today are on his level

Not sure how its going to go, the winner deserves a shot at Campbell and will have a good 50-50 shot at beating him

I thought DLH vs Chavez possibly, but both DLH and Moore were alot closer to their prime than Khan

stujones wrote:I thought DLH vs Chavez possibly, but both DLH and Moore were alot closer to their prime than Khan

Perhaps although DLH was in his 22nd fight in his first 4years as a pro, Moore was 13-0 and a pro for less than 3years

I suppose Morales/Diaz and Morales/Raheem maybe apt comparisons, neither great LWs, thought Morales won more rounds than Diaz but took a bit of a pasting down the stretch. If your going to call Khan chinny, maybe Raheem is after getting starched by Funeka (brutal KO), so he could be a very close parallel

I just can't see Khan winning, and the would be plenty of mileage in more learning fights for him.
Even if he did win it would propel him into top class which he just isn't ready for.
Surely there must be a late pull out or is there something in it for FW getting Amir bashed up??

It won`t mean much either way because as great as Barrera was .. it was at a much lower weight .. remember he beat Naz and didn`t bother keeping the belt because he said he was only s-bantam.

If Khan wins, then its only because Barrera is well past it and well past his weight division.

If Barrera wins, then its only a win against a chinny wannabee.

I don`t see a win for either man meaning much among the top guys in the lightweight division.

The lightweight devision has plenty of depth, but also plenty of fighters with titles or ahead of Barrera in the que who are very beatable.

The 3 diaz's, Campbell, Casamayor all would probably lose to the Barrera who ran Pacquiao and Marquez close.

Stu, with all respect, you're wrong.

Juan, with his tight defence and excellent movement, would have caused Barrera no end of problems. Casamayor is an adept counterpuncher and, in his prime, would have been stronger and more controlled than Barrera. If you match them at lightweight, Barrera has no real chance except to make it a spirited fight. His second performance against Pacquaio was listless and hardly a fight. If Manny had stepped on the gas, Barrera would have been out of there.

In his heydey, he was incredible. Aggressive, fluid and smart. Now he's not.

Juan Diaz hasn't looked like he has recovered from the Campbell loss and isn't a big Lightweight.

I think Casamayor is more shot than Barrera IMO, did well against JMM but I think that fight has probably taken alot out of him. Lets not forget the Santa Cruz performance.

It would be interesting fights IMO.

Campbell is the "man" at the devision, and I think he is very beatable at this stage of his career.

Marquez/Guzman and possibly Valero (not proven enough in the elite) need to be avoided.

stujones wrote:True, but be interesting to know how many 21 year old have been the betting favourite against someone of Marco's ability and experience.

I thought Barrerra is the betting favourite? 3-1 for Khan to win by stoppage. Get your money on it.

Odds seem to be flucating, I think it could be like Lacy vs Calzaghe - one week Lacy is the favourite, next week Calzaghe, then Lacy.... Bookies haven't settled - but its going to be close.

Ali vs Moore is the closest comparison I can think off.

stujones wrote:Odds seem to be flucating, I think it could be like Lacy vs Calzaghe - one week Lacy is the favourite, next week Calzaghe, then Lacy.... Bookies haven't settled - but its going to be close.

Ali vs Moore is the closest comparison I can think off.

Just checked on oddschecker.com, you are right, Khan is now favourite.

You can get 11/4 for a Khan win by stoppage. Tempted to go for a win by stoppage treble Khan, Small and Hatton :P

stujones wrote:Juan Diaz hasn't looked like he has recovered from the Campbell loss and isn't a big Lightweight.

I think Casamayor is more shot than Barrera IMO, did well against JMM but I think that fight has probably taken alot out of him. Lets not forget the Santa Cruz performance.

It would be interesting fights IMO.

Campbell is the "man" at the devision, and I think he is very beatable at this stage of his career.

Marquez/Guzman and possibly Valero (not proven enough in the elite) need to be avoided.

Bang on about Casa. As good as he was in his prime, he has been shot to shit since he drew with Kid Diamond in 05.

Campbell is certainly beatable, but Kahn needs to progress alot. I know he has earned the right to be called 'the man' in the division by beating Diaz, but it makes me laugh that people seem to forget he was KTFO by Robbie Peden TWICE! Robbie Peden FFS!. Nate still has a punch though which is all thats needed against Khan.

JMM would run rings around Khan before he sparked him. One of the most accurate punchers in the game would be a nightmare for him.

IMO Barrera will totally outbox Amir from start to finish, and its a big big mistake by FW. If I was them I would be looking to fight someone like Aldo Rios where he can get rounds in against someone tough that will fight back. Its no good jumping on someone smaller and throwing flashy punches for a minute before the ref steps in or the smaller man crumbles. If only he wasnt such a big name already, and headlining box office shows he could be fighting some tough as nails mexicans over in LA while training with Roach. like that guy Murray fought before the hatton mayweather fight

stujones wrote:Juan Diaz hasn't looked like he has recovered from the Campbell loss and isn't a big Lightweight.

Diaz responded to his loss against Campbell by thrashing Michael Katsidis. Comprehensively, whatever the score cards say. I'd say he looked plenty recovered.

If Barrera puts Amir down in the first round, then loses on points..

..it will have the same significance as another fight or two from last year.

That in their prime these originally smaller fighters would have handled themselves and won.

Instead they are older, extremely shopworn (50+ fights apiece) and fighting at a higher weight they dont belong in - against a fighter much nearer there peak, who's far from shopworn.

In a nutshell Barrera is whoring his name, but maybe thinks in his mind he can still do the biz.

Historically it's got no bearing on anything for me - and if Khan calls himself a 'legend killer' afterwards he deserves all the stick he gets !