BoxRec

It's time for another Hall of Fame Election. The deadline for submitting a ballot is Noon CDT on February 15, 2009. I will total the ballots shortly after that.

A brief summary of the rules:
-A voter can vote for up to 25 names. (If you vote for more than 25, your entire ballot doesn't count.)
-A fighter's last fight has to be before February 15, 1999 to be eligible.
-You can change your vote. Your last vote before the deadline will be the one counted.
-Candidates who are named on atleast 75% of the ballots are elected. If no fighters receive enough votes, the fighter(s) with the most will be elected.
Go to the Boxrec Hall of Fame Sticky (p.2) for more complete rules.

To vote, just list your selections on this thread. (Don't put them on the Hall of Fame Sticky or any other thread.)
It would be appreciated if you list your selections in alphabetical order.

It's a good idea to check every name that other voters have on their ballot. You may find someone that you overlooked.

So far there had a been a good variety of fighters from different era's, weight classes, styles, etc. Hopefully that will continue.

Fighters already elected by Weight Class:

Heavyweight(11)- Ali, Louis, Marciano,Dempsey,Fitzsimmons,Johnson,Jeffries,Frazier,Liston,
Foreman,Sullivan

Lightheavyweight(9)-Charles,Moore,Langford,Foster,Tunney,Conn,Harold Johnson,Loughran,Spinks


Middleweight(14)-Greb,Monzon,Hagler,Ketchel,Walker,Burley,Cerdan,LaMotta,Tiger,Flowers
Benvenuti,Nonpariel Dempsey,Ryan, Darcy

Jr Middleweight(1)-McCallum

Welterweight(10)-Robinson,Ross,Napoles,Griffith, Ray Leonard,Griffith,Benitez,Basilio,Gavilan,
McLarnin,Barbadoes Joe Walcott

Jr. Welterweight(2)-Loi, Locche

Lightweight(8)-Armstrong,Gans,Benny Leonard,Canzoneri,Ambers,Williams,Carlos Ortiz,McFarland
Jr Lightweight(1)-Kid Chocolate

Featherweight(6)-Pep,Saddler,Sanchez,Arguello,Attell,McGovern
Jr Featherweight(1)-Gomez

Bantamweight(7)-Jofre,Brown,Olivares,Zarate,Harada,Manuel Ortiz,Dixon

Super Flyweight(1)-Galaxy

Flyweight(2)-Wilde,Perez

I didn't start a thread just for debating the merits of a candidiate. Unfortunately, there had been little interest in doing. If you want to make a case for or against someone, feel free to do it on this thread.

Also, voters are encouraged to name one fighter on their ballot that they consider the most worthy and briefly why. You don't have to do this to vote. However, it may help the cause of that fighter.
Lets have fun everyone!

To get things started, here is my ballot:

Sammy Angott
Jimmy Bivins
Joe Brown
Jack Britton
Miguel Canto
Young Corbett III
Jem Driscoll
Flash Elorde
Gene Fullmer
Joey Giardello
Beau Jack
Johnny Kilbane
Ted Kid Lewis
Sammy Mandell
Lloyd Marshall
Kid McCoy
Bob Montgomery
Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
Eusebio Pedroza
Aaron Pryor
Dwight Qawi
Luis Rodriguez
Vincente Saldivar
Freddie Welsh
Holman Williams

Once again, I am choosing Vincente Saldivar as the fighter that is the most worthy. I feel that he was one of the Top 5 featherweights of All-Time. He had only 3 losses and none were embarrassing. He also had several wins over very good opponents.

SAMMY ANGOTT
JIMMY BARRY
ANTONIO CERVANTES
YOUNG CORBETT III
JACK DILLON
JIM DRISCOLL
MIKE GIBBONS
TOMMY GIBBONS
YOUNG GRIFFO
JOHNNY KILBANE
FIDEL LABARBA
JOHN HENRY LEWIS
TED "KID" LEWIS
SAMMY MANDELL
KID McCOY
FREDDIE MILLER
PHILADELPHIA JACK O'BRIEN
LUIS RODRIGUEZ
MAXIE ROSENBLOOM
FREDDIE STEELE
YOUNG STRIBLING
PANCHO VILLA
FREDDIE WELSH
HOLMAN WILLIAMS
MIDGET WOLGAST

Jimmy Barry
Jack Britton
Jim Corbett
Young Corbett III
Jim Driscoll
Johnny Dundee
Flash Elorde
Tommy Gibbons
Peter Jackson
Joe Jeanette
Ted Kid Lewis
Benny Lynch
Lloyd Marshall
Bob Montgomery
Owen Moran
Kid Norfolk
Philidelphia Jack O'Brien
Eusebio Pedroza
Luis Rodriguez
Vicente Saldivar
Young Stribling
Rodrigo Valdez
Pancho Villa
Freddie Welsh
Tony Zale

Jimmy Bivins
Jack Blackburn
Eddie Booker
Jack Britton
Joe Brown
Jeff Clark
Jack Dillon
Esteban De Jesus
Beau Jack
Joe Jeanette
Ted Kid Lewis
Lloyd Marshall
Bob Montgomery
Dwight Qawi Muhammad
Battling Nelson
Kid Norfolk
Floyd Patterson
Luis Rodriguez
Vincente Saldivar
Pancho Villa
Jersey Joe Walcott
Holman Williams
Harry Wills
Tony Zale
Fritzie Zivic

Bert Gilroy








Then a long way behind:


Jimmy Bivins
Jack Blackburn
Eddie Booker
Ted Heath
Jack Britton
Joe Brown
Jeff Clark
Jack Dillon
Esteban De Jesus
Beau Jack
Joe Jeanette
Ted Kid Lewis
Benny Hill
Lloyd Marshall
Bob Montgomery
Dwight Qawi Muhammad
Battling Nelson
Kid Norfolk
Floyd Patterson
Luis Rodriguez
Vincente Saldivar
Pancho Villa
Jersey Joe Walcott
Frankie Howerd
Holman Williams
Harry Wills
Tony Zale
Fritzie Zivic

LLOYD MARSHALL and TONY ZALE must get in the Hall this time!!! Anything less will be criminal!!!

Horacio Accavallo
Jimmy Barry
Battling Battalino
Joe Brown
Jose Carattoli
Jim Corbett
Al Bummy Davis
Gabriel Flash Elorde
Sixto Escobar
Jorge Fernandez
Arturo Godoy
Willie Joyce
Johnny Kilbane
Ismael Laguna
Eduardo Lausse
Jimmy Leto
Lloyd Marshall
Rafael Merentino
Mauro Mina
Memphis Pal Moore
Battling Nelson
Tommy Paul
Angel Rodriguez
Justo Suarez
Jose Chegui Torres

Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
Floyd Patterson
Battling Nelson
Jack Blackburn
Freddie Miller
Maxie Rosenbloom
Lloyd Marshall
Tommy Burns
Holman Williams
Peter Jackson
Jem Mace
Caveman Bob Moha
Denver Ed Martin
Kid McCoy
Jack Britton
Max Schmeling




Outside of maybe Patterson and Schmeling, I picked more the 'unsung heroes' in boxing history who were great, but somehow rarely get mentioned today

Joey Archer
Antonio Cervantes
Jim Corbett
Jack Dillon
Jem Driscoll
Gene Fullmer
Tommy Gibbons
Beau Jack
Peter Jackson
Joe Jeannette
Danny Lopez
Lloyd Marshall
Bob Montgomery
Ken Norton
Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
Floyd Patterson
Aaron Pryor
Vincente Saldivar
Tom Sharkey
Young Stribling
Jersey Joe Walcott
Holman Williams
Harry Wills
Tony Zale
Fritze Zivic

Jack Kid Berg
Jack Britton
Ken Buchanan
Miguel Canto
Antonio Cervantes
Jungkoo Chang
Johnny Coulon
Esteban De Jesus
Jem Driscoll
Victor Galindez
Frankie Genaro
Johnny Kilblane
Fidel La Barba
Ted Kid Lewis
Jack MacAuliffe
Kid McCoy
Freddie Miller
Bob Montgomery
Eusebio Pedroza
Aaron Pryor
Maxie Rosenbloom
Rodrigo Valdes
Midget Wolgast
Tony Zale
Hilario Zapata


Of these I think Miguel Canto is the one whose induction is overdue. Flyweights are under represented in general (just 2 so far), and Canto's record suggests he is one of the best of them. 14 title defences, a lot of them in the challenger's home town, all on points.

Canto is a good pick; he had a great career.

Collins2000 wrote:Bert Gilroy








Then a long way behind:


Jimmy Bivins
Jack Blackburn
Eddie Booker
Ted Heath
Jack Britton
Joe Brown
Jeff Clark
Jack Dillon
Esteban De Jesus
Beau Jack
Joe Jeanette
Ted Kid Lewis
Benny Hill
Lloyd Marshall
Bob Montgomery
Dwight Qawi Muhammad
Battling Nelson
Kid Norfolk
Floyd Patterson
Luis Rodriguez
Vincente Saldivar
Pancho Villa
Jersey Joe Walcott
Frankie Howerd
Holman Williams
Harry Wills
Tony Zale
Fritzie Zivic

Collins-That is 29 guys, 4 over the limit. Ok not to count Gilroy, Ted Heath, Benny Hill and Frank Howerd?

I will chime in....I'll beat the deadline again

HH

Bob Fitzsimmons and Mickey Walker are both in. You can pick 25 guys by the way, so you've got several more picks. Just check to see if there in first.

ANTONIO CERVANTES
Victor Galindez
Benny Lynch
Joe Brown
Miguel Canto
Flash Elorde
Beau Jack
Horacio Accavallo
Bob Montgomery
Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
Eusebio Pedroza
Poncho Villa
Tony Zale
Aaron Pryor
Jungkoo Chang
Luis Rodriguez
Vincente Saldivar
Santos Lasciar
Rodrigo Valdez
Hilario Zapata
Myung-Woo Yuh

Freddie Miller
Tommy Paul
Jersey Joe Walcott
Johnny Kilbane

Ambling Alp wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:Bert Gilroy








Then a long way behind:


Jimmy Bivins
Jack Blackburn
Eddie Booker
Ted Heath
Jack Britton
Joe Brown
Jeff Clark
Jack Dillon
Esteban De Jesus
Beau Jack
Joe Jeanette
Ted Kid Lewis
Benny Hill
Lloyd Marshall
Bob Montgomery
Dwight Qawi Muhammad
Battling Nelson
Kid Norfolk
Floyd Patterson
Luis Rodriguez
Vincente Saldivar
Pancho Villa
Jersey Joe Walcott
Frankie Howerd
Holman Williams
Harry Wills
Tony Zale
Fritzie Zivic

Collins-That is 29 guys, 4 over the limit. Ok not to count Gilroy, Ted Heath, Benny Hill and Frank Howerd?

No way can we leave Bert out! You know the drill by now. Undefeated for 40+ years. Most avoided fighter in Britain. Cheated out of a win over Cerdan. Able to catch a .303 bullet between his teeth while playing "My Ding A Ling" on the bagpipes.

Take out De Jesus instead, please.

Yes, you can drop Ted Heath, Benny Hill and Frankie Howerd. They all engaged in ring activity but only for fun not for money.

I don't come on here much anymore, and Collins knows that, so in his usual fashion he always states that which was NOT said, so once again I will defend it... and close with a direct slur, Collins you are a _unken moron!

Actual quotes!

Bert Gilroy on Jock McAvoy: "I was a strong favorite to beat him and I chased him from 1938 to 1945, with the crucial years being 1938 to 1943. McAvoy's rush-in style was tailor-made for my own boxing style and ability."

Jock McAvoy on Bert Gilroy: "They (BBB of C), won't let me defend my title and the bigger men won't have any part of me. I've been following the progress of the middleweight contenders, and I feel the Scottish champion Bert Gilroy is the one most likely to take the title given the right chance."

Bert Gilroy on Freddie Mills: "Most of the judges and reporters had me ahead that night, Freddie cut me in the first round, afterward in the eighth when he landed a bomb on the referee, a minute later the referee stopped the fight, I was ahead on points. He was the strongest man [physically], I ever fought."

Freddie Mills on Bert Gilroy: "Try as I would, I just could not put him away. He was just far too clever. It was Bert who got the bigger share of the applause, and well he merited it."

Bert Gilroy on Bruce Woodcock: "There was very little between us in our first fight, in fact I took the first three rounds, he was just too big and he would lean on me in close quarters, push down on my shoulders, and elbow my forearms trying to create an opening, he caught me with good uppercuts and short hooks. When Woodcock hit you it was like getting hit by a fuckin' freight train!"

Bruce Woodcock on Bert Gilroy: "I was sorry this second fight with Gilroy ended so soon, Bert Gilroy was such a scientific boxer, I wanted to learn more from him."

Bert Gilroy on Marcel Cerdan: "Cerdan was good, all right, but I know I could have given him a better showing if it wasn't for drying out [making weight). How would Cerdan have done if he fought the same big men I fought?"

Bert Gilroy on Don Cockell: "If he could have remained at light-heavyweight, he might have been a world champion. I was at the end of my career when we fought he was just coming into top contention."

Bert Gilroy on Randolph Turpin: "He was just starting out as a pro as I was rounding out my last few years, I was still in contention, and I couldn't get a fight with either one of them, Randy or Dick. Dick was there with me through the whole of our careers. Given the chance, I think McAvoy or myself would have been Britain's first world middleweight champions before Randy Turpin."

Bert Gilroy on Ernie Roderick: "I was the only top middleweight contender he wouldn't fight, as he was manipulating his way into the middleweight title scene, he was chosen over me to fight Ginger Sadd -- 1942, who I beat in the first place in a final eliminator for the British middleweight title."

Bert Gilroy on Bert Gilroy: "They shut me out! I probably fought more heavyweights than any British middleweight. I believe I am Scotland's longest champion, and I was widely reported to be British champion and a world champion if not for the war!"

Charley Rose: "I have seen the next middleweight champion of the world!"

Jimmy Wilde: "Bert Gilroy is an excellent boxer and should come out a starting favorite!"

Elky Clarke: "Bert Gilroy has everything that goes into the making of a champion: skill, stamina, and punching power."

Ring magazine, March 1940: "Bert Gilroy would not be averse in fighting Fred Apostili, Solly Krieger, or Ceferino Garcia."

Norman Hurst: "McAvoy will have to fight well and hard to retain his title when the pair meet."

Frank Butler: "Bert Gilroy is probably the cleverest middleweight in the country."

Malcolm Turner: "Gilroy was ahead at the close, an unsatisfactory ending, [Gilroy vs. Mills]."

Eugene Henderson: [Turpin vs. Robinson] "But for the second world war, Bert Gilroy could have well won a world title!"

Lloyd Marshall
Jock McAvoy
Enie Roderick
Robert Villemain

and others yet, "the Arc of Boxing!" read it Collins, you leg.

watch the 'rants' now, Child!

James J. Corbett

Jack Britton
Paul Berlenbach
Jose Carattoli
Joe Choynski
Johnny Coulon
Jack Delaney
The Dixie Kid
Mike Donovan
Jem Driscoll
Johnny Dundee
Frankie Genaro
Pete Herman
Peter Jackson
Johnny Kilbane
George “Kid” Lavigne
Ted "Kid" Lewis
Jack McAuliffe
Battling Nelson
Fidel LaBarba
Philadelphia Jack O’Brien
Tom Sharkey
Mysterious Billy Smith
Kid Williams
Kochi Wajima

Once again, I've nominated mostly pre-1930 fighters because I believe they are underrepresented. Once again, I've included Koichi Wajima because he was a great junior middleweight who is now largely forgotten by fans today.

jimglen wrote:I don't come on here much anymore, and Collins knows that, so in his usual fashion he always states that which was NOT said, so once again I will defend it... and close with a direct slur, Collins you are a _unken moron!

"the Arc of Boxing!" read it Collins, you leg.

watch the 'rants' now, Child!

Vote for Bert!

You'll make a fellow who paid someone to write a book about him very happy.

Seamus, hope you're well, mate...

What's your reasoning for having Ted Lewis in but not Britton? Look forward to your answer...

Here are my top entries for this February 2009 ballot:
Jimmy Barry
Jack "Kid" Berg
Jack Britton
Joe Brown
Miguel Canto
Jack Delaney
Jim Driscoll
Johnny Dundee
Pete "Kid" Herman
Beau Jack
Peter Jackson
Johnny Kilbane
Ted "Kid" Lewis
Benny Lynch
Freddie Miller
Azumah Nelson
Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
Eusebio Pedroza
Aaron Pryor
Vicente Saldivar
Pancho Villa
Jersey Joe Walcott
Freddie Welsh
Holman Williams
Tony Zale

raylawpc wrote:

Once again, I've nominated mostly pre-1930 fighters because I believe they are underrepresented. Once again, I've included Koichi Wajima because he was a great junior middleweight who is now largely forgotten by fans today.

This is a very good plot

Martin, I hope you saw who else I included . . .