BoxRec

You always hear people say that the fight was really close, or was dead even at the time of the stoppage, or if Cooney never had points taken away, he would have been ahead on the cards. Well, I scored this epic bout, and some may not agree with me, but here's my opinion, for what its worth:

Round One- 10-10 even
Round Two- 10-8 Holmes
Round Three- Holmes 10-9
Round Four- Cooney 10-9
Round Five- Cooney 10-9
Round Six- 10-10 even
Round Seven- Cooney 10-9
Round Eight- Cooney 10-9
Round Nine- Holmes 10-8
Round Ten- Cooney 10-9
Round Eleven- Holmes 10-8
Round Twelve- Holmes 10-9

That makes the fight dead even at 86-86 in round ten, which was the best round of the fight, and by round twelve, the fight was by my scores 106-104 (for Holmes). By my calculations, however, the rounds Cooney lost that were 10-8 rounds (not including the second round, where he was knocked down), would have made the fight by my calculations: 113-107 for Cooney.

But, you can make an argument that the first three rounds were Holmes', so lets figure that my calculation of the first round being even is wrong and it was Holmes round. That makes the fight 122-117 for Cooney anyways.

The official scores for the bout were the following: 113-111, 113-111, 115-109 all for Holmes.

Your thoughts and opinions?

I shall re watch the fight this weekend. I have yet to score it.
BUT...I did have Holmes ahead at the time of the stoppage.

Ill watch shortly and compare notes.

HomicideHenry wrote: Your thoughts and opinions?

- Don't like the way bouts are scored. Too many controversies.

Cooney beat the au jous out of Holmes much of the fight, irrespective of the KD which was in isolation to the rest of the fight. KD exposed the vulnerabilities of Cooney who hadn't taken a solid whack in several years thanks his padded record, though he does come back strong for the next rounds.

I disagree with giving any fighter a 10-8 round that he's comprehensively loosing but scores a KD in. That's an even round by definition. The low blow deductions were legit and the result of Cooney's stamina and form falling apart because of the year's rust he had on top of the padded record.

Larry won a fight he looks like crap in but did it legit, unlike say the Williams fight, by perserving some brutal low blows and wearing a immensely talented giant down by being a punch bag for much of the fight. Didn't even have to land a punch at the end, Cooney just collapses from the fatigue of his effort. He lands a thousand and one more punches on Cobb in comparison in his next fight, a complete contrast.

Larry notched his biggest payday, but the fight exposed the limitations of both. Don't think poor Cooney had been more than 8 rds in his life on top of being rusty. It was all about holding him out of action to make a retirement purse for him. His handlers knew he was fragile and wouldn't be long in the game.

Brouberry

did Holmes impress you in any of his fights ?

Robinson wrote:did Holmes impress you in any of his fights ?

- No doubt, he was a world beater against Zanon, LeDoux, Ali, Frank, Leon, Frank, and Marvis.

Brouberry does have a point.

The fact that Cooney was still an unfinished article, who had been out of the ring for a year and in and out of rehab for a coke addiction, still gave Holmes hell for 12 rounds says a lot.

Just imagine how good Cooney could have been if he had been trained from the start by Gil Clancy and put he tough learning fights instead of being trained by Victor Valle and fed a diet of stiffs before being thrown in with the best fighter in the division.

But against Shavers, Norton, Weaver, Mercer, Smith, Witherspoon,
Berbick,etc....

Perhaps we should look at Burns, Louis, Johnson, Dempsey top quality title defences.

Bouberry has never liked Holmes.

I'll rewatch it tonight . . don't think I have Cooney winning as many rounds as you . . from my recollection he won 4 AT MOST.

I guess, considering had the fight been 12 rounds, least based on my calculations (106-104), the fight would have been a decision win for Larry Holmes, though by a close margin, and really, I dont think at the end of 12 rounds, anyone would have guessed that Cooney would have fallen in the 13th, he appeared dominate and Holmes was getting more flat footed in the ring.

Who knows, had it been 12, maybe the thoughts at the time, considering Cooney's mass popularity, that he would have gotten the nod, rather than Holmes.

Cooney looked dominant? Huh? You can't say the fight over the first 12 rounds is how it would've gone in a 12 round fight. Holmes would've stepped on the gas earlier had it been the 12 round limit.

Cooney would have NEVER defeated Holmes.

Other than the cut on Cooney's nose, Holmes was the only man in that ring throughout those 12 rounds who was hurt. Cooney simply just gassed out in there, the knock down in the 13th was more out of sheer exhaustion, than being from Holmes power...I say dominate, because, when push came to shove, Larry couldnt slug it with Cooney, he would get rocked every time he attempted it, and Cooney for all intents and purposes was being the aggressor throughout.

Aggression, power punches, imo, can be just as telling on the scores, as the volume of Holmes jab.

HomicideHenry wrote:Other than the cut on Cooney's nose, Holmes was the only man in that ring throughout those 12 rounds who was hurt. Cooney simply just gassed out in there, the knock down in the 13th was more out of sheer exhaustion, than being from Holmes power...I say dominate, because, when push came to shove, Larry couldnt slug it with Cooney, he would get rocked every time he attempted it, and Cooney for all intents and purposes was being the aggressor throughout.

Aggression, power punches, imo, can be just as telling on the scores, as the volume of Holmes jab.

? Cooney wasn't hurt in the 2nd from a right hand that turned his legs to jelly?? Or in the 6th again when his legs went from him again?

dempseyfire wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:Other than the cut on Cooney's nose, Holmes was the only man in that ring throughout those 12 rounds who was hurt. Cooney simply just gassed out in there, the knock down in the 13th was more out of sheer exhaustion, than being from Holmes power...I say dominate, because, when push came to shove, Larry couldnt slug it with Cooney, he would get rocked every time he attempted it, and Cooney for all intents and purposes was being the aggressor throughout.

Aggression, power punches, imo, can be just as telling on the scores, as the volume of Holmes jab.

? Cooney wasn't hurt in the 2nd from a right hand that turned his legs to jelly??

I don't think Rupert or whatever his name is has actually seen this bout if he think Cooney was in control. In my opinion I think Holmes actually eased up on him after realising he could take him out whenever he wanted. Cooney was brave but had been fed too many old men. It's fashionable now to knock Holmes but he was a great and dominant champ. If only we had someone like him at heavy today.

Cooney was knocked down in round two, yes, but the whole theory that he eased up on Cooney afterward is bullshit, just like the critics who said Jack Johnson merely toyed with Jefferies, but dont want to acknowledge it took a prime Johnson almost 15 rounds to knock down a man who been retired 6 years and had to lose 110 pounds.

Holmes wouldnt have toyed with Cooney, hell even Larry said, George Foreman has said, and even Ron Lyle has said, that Cooney was THE hardest hitting man they ever faced. Its all bullshit.

HomicideHenry wrote:Cooney was knocked down in round two, yes, but the whole theory that he eased up on Cooney afterward is bullshit, just like the critics who said Jack Johnson merely toyed with Jefferies, but dont want to acknowledge it took a prime Johnson almost 15 rounds to knock down a man who been retired 6 years and had to lose 110 pounds.

Holmes wouldnt have toyed with Cooney, hell even Larry said, George Foreman has said, and even Ron Lyle has said, that Cooney was THE hardest hitting man they ever faced. Its all bullshit.

Rupert, you have a large dirty mouth and a limited vocabulary but you're OK in my book.

My scorecard

Rds:

1: Holmes 10-9
2: Holmes 10-8
3: Cooney 10-9
4: Cooney 10-9
5: Even
6: Holmes 10-9
7: Cooney 10-9
8: Holmes 10-9
9: Holmes 10-8
10) Cooney 10-9
11) Holmes 10-8
12) Holmes 10-9

So I have Cooney winning 4 rounds to your 5 but I see Holmes definitely winning the 1st and 6th. Even if you give him the 5th he's still behind after 12 rounds. Regardless, it's clear watching the fight that Cooney have Holmes some problems and showed a huge heap of balls and courage. But once Holmes saw that Cooney was a practical sucker for the right hand, he took him into deep water and drowned him, which is exactly what happened. I think it would've happened sooner if Holmes had not suffered that incredible low blow in the 9th . . that was a straight Gerry Cooney power left hook right to the nuts! Ouch!

Outlasting your opponent was a legitimate way to win a fight the last time I checked. Holmes was just a better fighter than Cooney, although Gerry gave it all. On that night he'd have beaten almost all of the other 80s alpha champions.

The media were so pro-Cooney, then when Holmes won they all said, oh well Cooney was never any good anyway...

Too true. Thing with Cooney is, all his losses were to HOF fighters, and one can argue, had the Cooney that showed up against Holmes went up against Spinks or Foreman, he may have toppled them over. Who knows. I think, personally, since Cooney was ranked #1 in both the WBC and WBA, he should have opted to fight Coetzee, then could have made a defense here and there before getting after Holmes.

The money, the fame, the public demand for the fight was just too much.

Cooney vs Holmes was a memorable night for boxing.

The match was huge. I remember the build up as a kid. It pitted a slightly past his prime champion vs a younger, bigger and stronger, but un-proven challenger.

These days most of the best heavyweight where white, but back in the early 1980’s very few were. Cooney was not just any challenger. He was a " white hope " . But not just any hope. Cooney was from the boxing capital of the word New York. Many remember Cooney took the NY golden gloves at heavyweight.

Looking back, Cooney lacked the stamina, experience, and defense to deal with Holmes best stuff. I do think Cooney had Holmes hurt with a body shot in round 4, and the low blow in round 9 was brutal. Back then, boxing cups almost did as much harm as they did good. The cups of the early 1980’s were not the foam guards fighters wear today. After Cooney went low, Holmes corner man had to shove their hands down you know where to check if Holmes was A-OK.

The fight was a pretty good match. What gets lost is both fighters had a lot or pressure on them to win, and respected each other outside the ring.

I had Holmes up by a few points going into the 12th round.

Wasn't Cooney penalized several points in that fight? Was it really still that close?

HomicideHenry wrote:...George Foreman has said... that Cooney was THE hardest hitting man they ever faced.

That's probably because George doesn't remember the shots Lyle hit him with.