BoxRec

Since the name Johhny Bratton came up, those of you who live in the L.A area can pose any questions about Bratton to his son Dana who trains fighters at Freddie Roach's Wild Card Gym.

My own recollection of Bratton was: When he was right, he was as sweet and fierce as the best welters I've ever seen.

john garfield

It's been too long since we've heard from you John.

Although Bratton had problems and his record is deceptive,I'm glad someone has come on here and agrees with me that when he was at his very best he was a marvel to behold, and belonged with the greats.

I wish there was a tape or film of him against Fusari, which is just one fight that stays in my memory as a classic.

Jaclem wrote:It's been too long since we've heard from you John.

Although Bratton had problems and his record is deceptive,I'm glad someone has come on here and agrees with me that when he was at his very best he was a marvel to behold, and belonged with the greats.

I wish there was a tape or film of him against Fusari, which is just one fight that stays in my memory as a classic.

===============================================
Thanks for the welcome Jaclem.

There actually is an amateurish kinescope of the Bratton-Fusari fight; plus there's a wonderfully exciting audio cassette of that fight. It was part of the Gillette Cavalcade Sports radio broadcasts.

john garfield

terap...your comment about Bratton's lack of a muscular build reminded me of how he looked, which I haven't thought about in while. I never saw him live but that's how he came across on TV. Looked like a smallish guy working in an office and acceptable shape for his size but nothing out of the ordinary. That was one reason I thought his terrific punching power, when he unloaded was always such a surprise.

Considering the fragility of his hands. do you think he would have punched harder and more often if they had been more rugged?

Jaclem wrote:

I wish there was a tape or film of him against Fusari, which is just one fight that stays in my memory as a classic.

I think blood, sweat, and tears has that fight. Go to http://members.tripod.com/vhs-boxing/index.html and look under 'B'.

terap wrote:Bratton was very good. He and Kid Gavilan hated each other.

Damn, I didn't know that. Was it because Gavy was robbed in their 2nd fight?

Speaking of Bratton's terrific punching power, Bratton really nailed Gavy with a smashing right in about the 4th round of their 2nd fight, but Gavy just walked through it like it was nothing. (Hehe, just had to toot The Man's horn there a little... 8) )

This response has no purpose except to push me into the top 40.

terap wrote:"Speaking of Bratton's terrific punching power, Bratton really nailed Gavy with a smashing right in about the 4th round of their 2nd fight, but Gavy just walked through it like it was nothing. "

So did Robinson.

So did Gil Turner earlier in their title fight.

Sadly, the Robinson and Williams fights aren't on tape. But I have seen a few pics of Robby nailing Gavilan... in one pic, Gavy's face is all distorted by a right hand.

Turner nailed him a few times in the early rounds. Never budged him.

Basilio once said that Ike Williams was past his prime when they fought, so he would have hated to have met him when he was at his peak. Basilio said he was still a terrific puncher...and he's a guy who tangled with middleweights, inlcuding of course Robinson.

Gavilan trained on the dance floor for Basilio,and got nailed. Still, Gavilan wasn't noted for avoiding the night life before any fight, so Basilio's work in their match is still impressive. I guess we'll never see the Williams knockdown, but terap is right...the Keed was really hurt by Basilo,and pulled out all of his cute stuff to survive,and even pull out a win, although I scored that one for the onion farmer.

Gavilan was clever but he did take a lot of punches from some of the toughest fighters in three divisions, and as far as I know, he didn't suffer any after effects when he hung the gloves up. vision problems late, but brains weren't scrambled to my knowledge.

Jaclem wrote:Gavilan trained on the dance floor for Basilio,and got nailed. Still, Gavilan wasn't noted for avoiding the night life before any fight, so Basilio's work in their match is still impressive. I guess we'll never see the Williams knockdown, but terap is right...the Keed was really hurt by Basilo,and pulled out all of his cute stuff to survive,and even pull out a win, although I scored that one for the onion farmer.

Gavilan was clever but he did take a lot of punches from some of the toughest fighters in three divisions, and as far as I know, he didn't suffer any after effects when he hung the gloves up. vision problems late, but brains weren't scrambled to my knowledge.

I think Gavilan trained hard for most of his title fights and big non-title matches. Against Basilio, he had weighed 154 for his fight with Tiger Jones the month before, and he tried to lose that weight too quickly. He was really weakened from the weight loss when he fought Basilio and that's why he got dropped. Also, I think Gavilan was just starting to get old then in general anyway. But I think that was really the only time Gavilan "underestimated" an opponent in a title match.

As for the fight, it was very close... I thought it could've gone either way by a very slight margin.

As far as I know, Gavilan's mind was still there. He was still doing interviews and making appearances until just shortly before he died.

terap wrote:Also Basilio really flattened Gavilan in their title fight, something Robinson couldn't do.
(decision for Gavilan).

Gavilan barely up at the count of nine.

The Kid was hurt, but I don't know that he "barely" got up...

He quickly got himself to one knee after he was dropped and was watching the ref's count. It looked to me more like he was just waiting for the count of nine.

There seems to be more interest in Johnny Bratton than iI would have imagined. I thought he was terrific but I wasn't sure how many of the younger guys would even remember him.

I had a thought: If there are any fight questions that you've always wondered about Bratton and never seen in print, why don't to you post them here and I'll run them by his son, Dale, who's an active trainer.

He's an affable enough guy and seems to be a treasure chest when it comes to info about his father.

So, maybe I can get those answers for you.

john garfield

terap wrote:John,

No specific questions needed.

Just tell him you have a group who thinks highly of his father and would be interested in anything he has to say.

Gotcha, terap

john garfield

Dave1armedTua wrote:This response has no purpose except to push me into the top 40.

well this has no purpose except to push me into the top 1000


Not as good....

terap wrote:My point was that Gavilan was definitely hurt by the punch Basilio knocked him down with. It was no flash knockdown.

And this was a less than fully experienced Basilio, who got even better later.

And course Gavilan was on the decline to some degree at that time.

What a pity there is no film of that fight.

Or is there?

Anybody?

Sure is! I got my copy from Mike Nosky, who writes for secondsout.com. Unfortunately, I don't think I still have his e-mail address, but if you can find it at that site, ask him for his list of fights and he'll e-mail you them.

terap wrote:Gavilan's mind was very clear in later years.

Gavilan had gotten out of Cuba and was in Ali's camp before the Oscar Bonavena--Ali fight.

Asked to comment after the fight, where Ali stumbled around and fouled like mad against Bonavena,

Gavilan's comment on Ali's performance was,

"Tonight he forget everything I teach heem."

Yeah... when push came to shove, Gavilan really had better technique and better defense than Ali.

At Wild Card Gym today, I ran into Dana Bratton and he said he'd be more than willing to answer any of your questions about his dad, and what went on behind the scenes in his matches

So, fire away, and I'll run them by Dana.

john garfield

Your questions are very straight forward, terap. I'm very much interested in knowing myself.

As soon as we speak, I'll get back to you. He's genuinely touched that people remember and are interested in his dad.

john garfield

terap wrote:I'm sure there are some additional and better ones---


but that's a start.

Why not ask him what he knows about the Bratton-Mims fights, since some people here were wondering about them.

I could probably think of a dozen things to ask, but they wouldn't be better than terap's.

I would like to know if his brittle hands affected his punching power. did he have to take it easy at times to avoid injuring them. I know he hurt them against Gavilan, Mike Tyson might hurt his hands against Gavilan.

You might remind Mr. Bratton that his father was an exceptional dresser.
I remember seeing him at the Charles-Baroudi fight in 1948 wearing a
fantastic brown and white cowhide coat.

He was also a wonderful boxer and one of my boyhood heros.

Jaclem wrote:Mike Tyson might hurt his hands against Gavilan.

Nah...

Tyson would've never laid a glove on Gavilan.

To terap, Cuban Hawak, jaclem and all the rest of you that had showed some interest in Bratton and submitted questions for his son, Dana, to shed some light on.

I'm disappointed because yesterday, armed with all your questions, I saw Dana at Wild Card. He said he spoke to his lawyer and was told not to say anything because either there's a book or a film in the works.

Sorry to raise your hopes, because I was anxious to hear the answer to some of the questions myself.

terap, on the other thread about Ali's training, you were dead right about what was then Clay never fighting Mike DeJohn. I think this old brain is slipping, as my wife contends.

john garfield

john...thanks anyway for the effort. This news is a mixed blessing...we'd have liked to heard the son's answers, but a book on Johnny Bratton is something to look forward to....with a hope that it will be accurate. As for a movie.....a slight shudder here, as I think about what movies have done to (rather than about) real people.

Simonpure wrote:You might remind Mr. Bratton that his father was an exceptional dresser.
I remember seeing him at the Charles-Baroudi fight in 1948 wearing a
fantastic brown and white cowhide coat.

He was also a wonderful boxer and one of my boyhood heros.

Simonpure,

Its funny you should mention Bratton's wardrobe.

It's like an impressionist capturing a mannerism of a celebrity that you never noticed, but as soon as you see it, you recognize it immediately. And you did that with Bratton's wardrobe.

I hadn't thought about in trying to conjure up a complete picture of him, but you couldn't be more right; he was a clothes horse, and shared the same fondness for flash as Robinson.

When Bratton was as at his best, as in moments against Fusari, his cominations looked a lot like the Sugarman's, as well.

john garfield