BoxRec

In 1929 Primo Carnera appeared on the RING magazine top ten, with a ninth place rank:

Jack Sharkey
Max Schmeling
George Godfrey
Tuffy Griffith
Phil Scott
Otto von Porat
Young Stribling
Johnny Risko
Primo Carnera
Vittorio Campolo

By 1930, he jumps to #4 on the list:

Jack Sharkey
Young Stribling
Tuffy Griffiths
Primo Carnera
George Godfrey
Johnny Risko
Ernie Schaaf
Tommy Loughran
Larry Johnson
Max Baer

By 1931, he's at #3, and by 1932 he's #4 and in 1933 he's still #4, in 1934:

Max Baer
Tommy Loughran
King Levinsky
Max Schmeling
Don McCorkindale
Patsy Perroni
Walter Neusel
Charley Massare
Steve Hamas
Lee Ramage

He's the world champion. The following year he loses the title to Baer, and is ranked #2.

In 1935, he's ranked #3 and by 1936, he's nowhere in the top 10 and never again returns to the top ten.

You deserve to know if your heavyweight champion is a crook. I am not a crook.

Me neither.

Rocky shadow boxing 1954

Collins are you saying ALL Italians are in fixed fights?

HomicideHenry wrote: Collins are you saying ALL Italians are in fixed fights?

Nope. Just happened that I came across the other two pictures at the same site as that one of Carnera and I hadn't seen them before so I thought I would share them.

Enjoy.

Ahhhh okies




^^^This is one of my favorites of Carnera, while he wrestled

Since his arrival in the U. S., backed by a group of prosperous but shady entrepreneurs, Carnera's career has been less glorious than fantastic. His first opponents—Big Boy Peterson, Elzear Rioux, Cowboy Owens— were known to be incompetent but their feeble opposition to Carnera suggested that they had been bribed to lose. Suspicion concerning the Monster's abilities became almost universal when another adversary, Bombo Chevalier, stated that one of his own seconds had threatened to kill him unless he lost to Carnera. Against the huge, lazy, amiable Negro George Godfrey (249 lb.), he won on a foul. But only one of 33 U. S. opponents has defeated Monster Carnera—fat, slovenly Jimmy Maloney, whom Sharkey beat five years ago. In a return fight, at Miami last March, Carnera managed to outpoint Maloney.

Prizefight experts have universally derided Carnera. They have coined names— "Fiddle-Feet," "Satchel-Feet," "Ambling Alp," "White Whale," "Carnivorous Carnera," "Snaggle-tooth"—to make his heroic stature seem deformed. This worries not at all his tiny, suave, hook-nosed Anglo-French manager, Leon Sze who, in Carnera's presence, has been observed bending his knees to make Carnera seem even bigger. To show his scorn for Carnera's detractors, M. See uses a motto on his stationery: "The dogs bark: the caravan passes." Like a large proportion of the sporting public, he believes, whether prizefight critics believe it or not, that Carnera cannot fail to win the world's heavyweight championship as soon as he is given a chance to fight for it, and that he may win the world's wrestling championship after that.

He was a strong mother wasnt he?

HomicideHenry wrote:
He was a strong mother wasnt he?

Never doubted that. But he wasn't too well regarded as a fighter by his contempories.


From Time magazine:

For the first three rounds of his often postponed fight with Jack Sharkey, Monster Primo Carnera last week danced about a Brooklyn ring with confident aplomb. He smiled for the benefit of 25,000 spectators, whenever Sharkey's right hand reached up to graze his lantern jaw. In the fourth round Sharkey, outweighed 261 Ib. to 2021. thought of an old trick, one which would never have fooled a clever or a more experienced fighter. He hit Carnera twice in the middle. When Carnera dropped his hands to protect his body, Sharkey led for Carnera's jaw, reached it with a right hand punch that caused Monster Carnera to give an astonished grunt and collapse.

When Referee Gunboat Smith had counted six, Carnera started to get up. He then sank back and rested on one knee, finally rose eight seconds after the knock down. Sharkey, maintaining his reputation for hysterical behavior in crucial moments, seized Referee Smith, screeched that he had won the fight by a knock out, then tried to jump out of the ring headfirst. His seconds persuaded him to resume the fight. For the next eleven rounds Sharkey adopted the brilliantly aggressive style which he uses when he is confident of winning, Carnera, devoid of aplomb, countered Sharkey's punches with a dubious, weak-wristed left jab. After the exciting 15th round, in which, again, he was nearly knocked out, Carnera's pleasure in the fact that the fight was over outweighed his disappointment at losing. He shook hands vigorously, consoled his manager, William Duffy, who was recently cataloged as one of Manhattan's six foremost public enemies, with a pat on the shoulder.



One of his major supporters in here always claimed that, no matter what you thought of Primo's skills, you had to admire his left jab... The bloke who wrote the above, a guy who was actually there, didn't rate it too highly did he?

I know alot of people believed his career to be fixed, but, imo, he is under-rated in some aspects.

Carnera could box, and I believe his bout with Loughran to be 100% legit. Many men had problems with Loughran, who was easily one of the all-time greats, but he could do nothing with Carnera. Maybe his size and weight were what won him over Loughran, more so than his ability, but its something that cant be over-looked.

And Carnera was a tough SOB. 11 knock downs he recieved from Max Baer, and he took the most brutal thrashing at the hands of Joe Louis for six rounds. Carnera was certainly no pussy, fake fights or not, he went in there as long as he could take it. He certainly wasnt some man you could take out with a single shot, thats for sure.

From Time magazine:

Carnera v. Loughran

In the first round, Primo Camera lumbered out of his corner and shuffled his huge feet while Tommy Loughran dabbed his lantern jaw with a left jab. In the second and third rounds the champion tried to rush the challenger against the ropes but failed; Loughran, fast on his feet, landed one solid right hand punch. The fourth round was Loughran's, but by now Camera had learned how to crowd his opponent into the corners. In the fifth, he caught Loughran against the ropes and began to smash his face with wide clublike blows. A blonde woman near the ringside let out a piercing scream. Alarmed, Camera turned his head to see what was the matter. When he looked back, Loughran had danced out of reach.

To the crowd of 10,000, smallest in 43 years for a heavyweight championship fight, in the Miami arena last week, this was an amazing beginning. Weeks of intensive sneers in the Press had led them to believe that the bout between a 270-lb. champion from Italy and a challenger who was five years older and 86 Ib. lighter was as unfair as it sounded. Now, on a windy evening with rain pattering on rows and rows of empty $20 seats, they became aware that the spectacle under the warm cone of light at the centre of the Madison Square Garden stadium was an exciting contest between a clever, courageous boxer and a nervous, clumsy monster, embarrassed by his own size and the hostility of the crowd. When Loughran ended the fifth round with a smashing right to Camera's chin it looked for a moment as if the little man might win after all.

After the fifth round. Camera did better. Loughran's tactics of running in and clinching made it impossible to land a knockout punch but Camera wrestled away from the challenger as best he could. He rushed out of his corner in the eighth and caught Loughran against the ropes for a second. In the tenth, he made the mistake of courteously touching gloves, as if it were the last round. At the end of the 14th, Loughran was dazed enough to start for the wrong corner of the ring. During the next round, Loughran managed to cling groggily to his huge adversary until the bell ended the fight. Three judges gave Camera a unanimous decision.

To Madison Square Garden, which lost $20,000, last week's was by no means the most costly heavyweight championship fight on record. That distinction still belongs to the Tunney v. Heeney bout of 1928 on which $200,000 was dropped. Camera's failure to knock out an opponent who has only been knocked out twice in 148 fights caused most sportswriters to deride him for his victory last week. Nothing he has done since he landed in the U. S. in 1929-, an illiterate monster with a French manager, has won him any praise or popularity. After last week's bout, Challenger Loughran, lauded as the finest sportsman among U. S. prizefighters, spoke of "rabbit punches and backhand blows," complained that the champion should have been disqualified for stepping on his foot. Monster Camera was more polite: "He [Loughran] was fighting a great fight. ... I should have knocked him out but it would have been shameful to treat such a courageous opponent in such fashion. . . ."

Bankrupt because he cannot find enough opponents to furnish him with the means to live as a champion should, Camera was further harassed last week when a Daytona night club garnisheed his $15,000 purse. He planned to visit South America, fight Victorio Campolo, a monster like himself.

Carnera before getting into the ring with Joe Louis. The 'Ambling Alp' was passed his best by this point, nowhere near ranked in the top 10 any more, but you cant get over the size difference between the two men and think that the former champion may have had a chance. Its ironic, that Carnera lasted six against Louis, while Baer (who defeated Carnera) only lasted four with the Brown Bomber.





I think, after the Louis bout, Carnera knew in his heart he'd never again get up there in boxing again. His life, following the Louis bout, was probably the saddest in boxing history. I know guys talk about how sad Louis, Liston and Tyson's life was following their careers, but Carnera ended up an alcoholic and with not a dime to his name, despite being one of the biggest attractions in both boxing and professional wrestling.

Damn Collins, the writers then were horrible to Carnera, weren't they? I think in the articles you provided, they called Carnera a monster at least a dozen times. Hell, we dont even write that badly of Valuev, and he, imo, was worse than Carnera.

HomicideHenry wrote:Damn Collins, the writers then were horrible to Carnera, weren't they? I think in the articles you provided, they called Carnera a monster at least a dozen times. Hell, we dont even write that badly of Valuev, and he, imo, was worse than Carnera.

Different era, Rufus. But I agree, I was surprised at the language.

Check out the comments on the rematch with Sharkey, also from Time Magazine.

Defending his world's heavyweight championship for the first time, against gargantuan Primo Camera, Jack Sharkey last week made a mistake in the sixth round. Before that Camera, lumbering about the ring in the uncomfortable manner of an elephant on a barrel, had tried to obey his manager's instructions to behave like a boxer. Consequently, Sharkey (201 Ib.) had completely outmaneuvered Carnera (260 Ib.) by jumping or standing on his toes' to reach Camera's chin with left jabs. Thinking that now the time had come to knock Camera down, as he did when they fought each other two years ago, Sharkey scrambled out of his corner, ran across the ring and, after a brief clinch, hit Camera in the stomach as hard as possible. What 40.000 spectators in Long Island City's stadium saw next was an appalling spectacle—the spectacle of a monster in a rage. Camera gave Sharkey a hard push which landed him on the floor near the ropes. Sharkey, humiliated but unconvinced, got up, ran at Camera, brandished his fists. Camera, still too furious to remember anything about ''boxing,'' clubbed his little opponent's head. By now Sharkey was too dazed to change his tactics. He hit Camera once more, this time in the face. Camera gave a loud grunt, lifted his right hand sharply in an eccentric gesture which resembled a badly executed uppercut. It grazed Sharkey's neck, came smacking onto Sharkey's jaw. Sharkey's feet left the floor. He fell face down full length near the ropes, then lay there quivering while Referee Arthur Donovan counted ten. Sharkey's seconds dragged him to his corner, managed to revive him after 50 seconds. Huge Primo Camera, soothed by the knowledge that he was the first Italian heavyweight champion of the world, danced around the ring holding his smallest manager in his arms, drank a bottle of beer in his dressing room, wagged his hideous acromegalic head as he explained to reporters that he had won the fight with a mysterious punch he had been practicing in secret.

Thinking that now the time had come to knock Camera down, as he did when they fought each other two years ago, Sharkey scrambled out of his corner, ran across the ring and, after a brief clinch, hit Camera in the stomach as hard as possible. What 40.000 spectators in Long Island City's stadium saw next was an appalling spectacle—the spectacle of a monster in a rage. Camera gave Sharkey a hard push which landed him on the floor near the ropes. Sharkey, humiliated but unconvinced, got up, ran at Camera, brandished his fists. Camera, still too furious to remember anything about ''boxing,'' clubbed his little opponent's head. By now Sharkey was too dazed to change his tactics. He hit Camera once more, this time in the face. Camera gave a loud grunt, lifted his right hand sharply in an eccentric gesture which resembled a badly executed uppercut. It grazed Sharkey's neck, came smacking onto Sharkey's jaw. Sharkey's feet left the floor. He fell face down full length near the ropes, then lay there quivering while Referee Arthur Donovan counted ten.

Guess that just goes not to piss Carnera off, eh?

Collins2000 wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:
He was a strong mother wasnt he?

Never doubted that. But he wasn't too well regarded as a fighter by his contempories.


From Time magazine:

For the first three rounds of his often postponed fight with Jack Sharkey, Monster Primo Carnera last week danced about a Brooklyn ring with confident aplomb. He smiled for the benefit of 25,000 spectators, whenever Sharkey's right hand reached up to graze his lantern jaw. In the fourth round Sharkey, outweighed 261 Ib. to 2021. thought of an old trick, one which would never have fooled a clever or a more experienced fighter. He hit Carnera twice in the middle. When Carnera dropped his hands to protect his body, Sharkey led for Carnera's jaw, reached it with a right hand punch that caused Monster Carnera to give an astonished grunt and collapse.

When Referee Gunboat Smith had counted six, Carnera started to get up. He then sank back and rested on one knee, finally rose eight seconds after the knock down. Sharkey, maintaining his reputation for hysterical behavior in crucial moments, seized Referee Smith, screeched that he had won the fight by a knock out, then tried to jump out of the ring headfirst. His seconds persuaded him to resume the fight. For the next eleven rounds Sharkey adopted the brilliantly aggressive style which he uses when he is confident of winning, Carnera, devoid of aplomb, countered Sharkey's punches with a dubious, weak-wristed left jab. After the exciting 15th round, in which, again, he was nearly knocked out, Carnera's pleasure in the fact that the fight was over outweighed his disappointment at losing. He shook hands vigorously, consoled his manager, William Duffy, who was recently cataloged as one of Manhattan's six foremost public enemies, with a pat on the shoulder.



One of his major supporters in here always claimed that, no matter what you thought of Primo's skills, you had to admire his left jab... The bloke who wrote the above, a guy who was actually there, didn't rate it too highly did he?

You can find write-ups of almost any fighter that are unfairly derided in the descriptions. I can find write-ups talking about Lennox Lewis's "weak paw" of a jab, but he's universally regarded as having a good jab. Carnera from the film had a fairly quick, persistent left jab that caught many a good fighter in the face.

I have the HLS of the Loughran fight on film . . Tommy does well early on as the write-up says but Carnera's pressure and stamina (which, often-looked, I contend was the best of the super HWs . . .definitely better than the K brothers) was too much and Loughran is shaky in the championship rounds. And Loughran was an all-time great who beat, among others, Braddock,Baer,Schaeff,Uzcudun, and Sharkey.

HomicideHenry wrote:Guess that just goes not to piss Carnera off, eh?

So it would seem from that report. I must watch that fight again and see if I can see what this chap saw.

That dude who is reading though the microfiche might post some reports of these Carnera fights. As even a novice historian (you there, Buzz?) knows, you can never get enough eye witness accounts.

IMO, the knockout was legit. I know people will say off the bat that it was a fix, considering Sharkey done beat Carnera before, but thats easy to say. There's been many fighters who lost to guys, only to beat them later in a stunning fashion. Its called a fluke. Kinda like Jones-Tarver. Two of the three fights went the distance, but the second fight resulted in Tarver knocking Jones out in two rounds. It was a fluke. Shit happens in boxing.

dempseyfire wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:
He was a strong mother wasnt he?

Never doubted that. But he wasn't too well regarded as a fighter by his contempories.


From Time magazine:

For the first three rounds of his often postponed fight with Jack Sharkey, Monster Primo Carnera last week danced about a Brooklyn ring with confident aplomb. He smiled for the benefit of 25,000 spectators, whenever Sharkey's right hand reached up to graze his lantern jaw. In the fourth round Sharkey, outweighed 261 Ib. to 2021. thought of an old trick, one which would never have fooled a clever or a more experienced fighter. He hit Carnera twice in the middle. When Carnera dropped his hands to protect his body, Sharkey led for Carnera's jaw, reached it with a right hand punch that caused Monster Carnera to give an astonished grunt and collapse.

When Referee Gunboat Smith had counted six, Carnera started to get up. He then sank back and rested on one knee, finally rose eight seconds after the knock down. Sharkey, maintaining his reputation for hysterical behavior in crucial moments, seized Referee Smith, screeched that he had won the fight by a knock out, then tried to jump out of the ring headfirst. His seconds persuaded him to resume the fight. For the next eleven rounds Sharkey adopted the brilliantly aggressive style which he uses when he is confident of winning, Carnera, devoid of aplomb, countered Sharkey's punches with a dubious, weak-wristed left jab. After the exciting 15th round, in which, again, he was nearly knocked out, Carnera's pleasure in the fact that the fight was over outweighed his disappointment at losing. He shook hands vigorously, consoled his manager, William Duffy, who was recently cataloged as one of Manhattan's six foremost public enemies, with a pat on the shoulder.



One of his major supporters in here always claimed that, no matter what you thought of Primo's skills, you had to admire his left jab... The bloke who wrote the above, a guy who was actually there, didn't rate it too highly did he?

You can find write-ups of almost any fighter that are unfairly derided in the descriptions. I can find write-ups talking about Lennox Lewis's "weak paw" of a jab, but he's universally regarded as having a good jab. Carnera from the film had a fairly quick, persistent left jab that caught many a good fighter in the face.

I have the HLS of the Loughran fight on film . . Tommy does well early on as the write-up says but Carnera's pressure and stamina (which, often-looked, I contend was the best of the super HWs . . .definitely better than the K brothers) was too much and Loughran is shaky in the championship rounds. And Loughran was an all-time great who beat, among others, Braddock,Baer,Schaeff,Uzcudun, and Sharkey.

Can you post some write ups from published reporters (not internet rabble like our good selves) mentioning Lewis' weak jab?

As well as Carnera's pressure and stamina, you don't think his advantage in sheer size worth mentioning?

Carnera, imo, was more capable than Jess Willard, who was honest about his ability, stating all he really ever done was jab and throw the uppercut when people got too close. But both men did share that quality of toughness. Willard took three rounds of the best Dempsey and 26 rounds of Johnson, Carnera took the best of Baer for 11 and Louis for six.

As far as Lewis having a weak jab, thats a new one, least for me, considering that was his primary weapon. His chin, however, was much up for debate, even though, imo, it wasnt as bad as people made it out to be. His problem was over-looking opponents at the wrong possible times in his career, which made him vulnerable.

Collins2000 wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:
He was a strong mother wasnt he?

Never doubted that. But he wasn't too well regarded as a fighter by his contempories.


From Time magazine:

For the first three rounds of his often postponed fight with Jack Sharkey, Monster Primo Carnera last week danced about a Brooklyn ring with confident aplomb. He smiled for the benefit of 25,000 spectators, whenever Sharkey's right hand reached up to graze his lantern jaw. In the fourth round Sharkey, outweighed 261 Ib. to 2021. thought of an old trick, one which would never have fooled a clever or a more experienced fighter. He hit Carnera twice in the middle. When Carnera dropped his hands to protect his body, Sharkey led for Carnera's jaw, reached it with a right hand punch that caused Monster Carnera to give an astonished grunt and collapse.

When Referee Gunboat Smith had counted six, Carnera started to get up. He then sank back and rested on one knee, finally rose eight seconds after the knock down. Sharkey, maintaining his reputation for hysterical behavior in crucial moments, seized Referee Smith, screeched that he had won the fight by a knock out, then tried to jump out of the ring headfirst. His seconds persuaded him to resume the fight. For the next eleven rounds Sharkey adopted the brilliantly aggressive style which he uses when he is confident of winning, Carnera, devoid of aplomb, countered Sharkey's punches with a dubious, weak-wristed left jab. After the exciting 15th round, in which, again, he was nearly knocked out, Carnera's pleasure in the fact that the fight was over outweighed his disappointment at losing. He shook hands vigorously, consoled his manager, William Duffy, who was recently cataloged as one of Manhattan's six foremost public enemies, with a pat on the shoulder.



One of his major supporters in here always claimed that, no matter what you thought of Primo's skills, you had to admire his left jab... The bloke who wrote the above, a guy who was actually there, didn't rate it too highly did he?

You can find write-ups of almost any fighter that are unfairly derided in the descriptions. I can find write-ups talking about Lennox Lewis's "weak paw" of a jab, but he's universally regarded as having a good jab. Carnera from the film had a fairly quick, persistent left jab that caught many a good fighter in the face.

I have the HLS of the Loughran fight on film . . Tommy does well early on as the write-up says but Carnera's pressure and stamina (which, often-looked, I contend was the best of the super HWs . . .definitely better than the K brothers) was too much and Loughran is shaky in the championship rounds. And Loughran was an all-time great who beat, among others, Braddock,Baer,Schaeff,Uzcudun, and Sharkey.

Can you post some write ups from published reporters (not internet rabble like our good selves) mentioning Lewis' weak jab?

As well as Carnera's pressure and stamina, you don't think his advantage in sheer size worth mentioning?

I remember reading it regarding Lewis before he beat Holyfield to unify the belts and gained a lot more respect. I don't remember exactly where or who wrote it (probably the Ring or one of the other main monthlys)

As for size, Lance Whitaker and Jameel McCline had sheer size and strength, but had atrocious stamina. If either of them had fought Loughran, they very well could've gotten knocked out late as they would've gassed badly as they strained to catch the elusive Tommy. Carnera could keep up a good pace not only for 10-12, but for 15 rounds. Looking at the film, one can hardly tell via activity whether it's the 2nd or the 10th round, as Primo didn't show signs of fatigue and open mouths like today's giants.

As for size, Lance Whitaker and Jameel McCline had sheer size and strength, but had atrocious stamina. If either of them had fought Loughran, they very well could've gotten knocked out late as they would've gassed badly as they strained to catch the elusive Tommy. Carnera could keep up a good pace not only for 10-12, but for 15 rounds. Looking at the film, one can hardly tell via activity whether it's the 2nd or the 10th round, as Primo didn't show signs of fatigue and open mouths like today's giants.

Kinda reminds me of Bert Sugar making the claim that Carnera would beat Wladimir. Iono if the big men of today have progressed much, considering guys like Valuev aren't really doing the theorists of "bigger is better" much favors, but I do know that, Carnera could go rounds and with his size, he was ever dangerous, whether it was the 1st round, the 10th or the 15th.

dempseyfire wrote:I remember reading it regarding Lewis before he beat Holyfield to unify the belts and gained a lot more respect. I don't remember exactly where or who wrote it (probably the Ring or one of the other main monthlys)

OK, I look forward to reading it when you come across it again

dempseyfire wrote:As for size, Lance Whitaker and Jameel McCline had sheer size and strength, but had atrocious stamina. If either of them had fought Loughran, they very well could've gotten knocked out late as they would've gassed badly as they strained to catch the elusive Tommy. Carnera could keep up a good pace not only for 10-12, but for 15 rounds. Looking at the film, one can hardly tell via activity whether it's the 2nd or the 10th round, as Primo didn't show signs of fatigue and open mouths like today's giants.

I was referring to Carnera vs Loughran. Are you saying the sheer size advantage for Carnera had nothing at all to do with his victory?

Collins, I see "you" have taken on the spit and polish of a genuine journalist/historian. However I'm not fooled for a moment and demand to know where the real Collins2000 is. My guess is that he has been buried alive somewhere in the wilderness and whoever "you" are (the writer of these most recent contributions) have assumed his account in some sort of macabre impersonation/ kidnapping event.

Please do not harm this former bumbling (but harmless) contributor, I implore "you" to sign on with a new moniker of your own and set things right by releasing the genuine Collins without delay. Though Collins was not all that informed he was entertaining, and everyone agrees that he had a good sense of humor