Page 1 of 1
Britain and the rest of the World.
Posted: 15 Mar 2009, 07:30
by DG.
Apart from Lennox - Benn - Calzaghe and Hamed.
Who have we had/got to really claim to the be able to beat the Top fighters in the world?
We are not doing well and it is all down to bullshit padded records.
Re: Britain and the rest of the World.
Posted: 15 Mar 2009, 07:39
by bbjc
Ricky Hatton
Re: Britain and the rest of the World.
Posted: 15 Mar 2009, 07:40
by Autobarn
You forgot one - Haye.
Next month, you might be able to add Froch.
EDIT - I forgot Hatton.
And then there is Khan - "stopped" a legend 8)
Yes, there is something wrong when our fighters are getting ranked. They're beating the "right" opponents and getting demolished by the "wrong" opponents.
I believe there is a problem. Fighters are getting ranked but they're not actually being built. As Eddie Futch said, in britain we build records not fighters. Flashy records get built up, & with that comes the gaudy ranking. Some of the guys that are ranked have had nothing to prepare them for when they have to fight someone good to justify their ranking.
Re: Britain and the rest of the World.
Posted: 15 Mar 2009, 07:43
by Hagler2002
Honeyghan, only be it for a short period.
Re: Britain and the rest of the World.
Posted: 15 Mar 2009, 07:45
by banjo
There seems to be a thing creeping in these days - an obsession with unbeaten records - and it isn't just Britain either, you see it in the states and Germany too, it seems a fighter becomes less marketable once they lose their "0" so they try and milk it as long as possible.
Re: Britain and the rest of the World.
Posted: 15 Mar 2009, 07:52
by Hagler2002
banjo wrote:There seems to be a thing creeping in these days - an obsession with unbeaten records - and it isn't just Britain either, you see it in the states and Germany too, it seems a fighter becomes less marketable once they lose their "0" so they try and milk it as long as possible.
That crap they were spouting last night about if Khan got beat his career was over was nonsense, ffs he's only 22 take a look at the record of Johnny Nelson or even Barrera himself when he got sparked off Junior Jones twice, there is plenty others also that have suffered defeats and gone on to succeed.
Re: Britain and the rest of the World.
Posted: 15 Mar 2009, 07:56
by bbjc
Dont think we do too badly for a country our size you could name Hatton, Calzaghe, Haye, Nazeem and Lennox from the last ten years who were at top world level. Then Benn Eubank Collins prior to this and probably others that i cant remember at the moment. On top of that you ve got Froch, Witter, Khan who have either fought at a decent level or could become top level, then you've got the new olympians coming through who look promising. Also we seem to be doing something right at the amateur level. Think i would be more worried as an American at the moment there not bringing through too many for a country there size a lot of there upcoming talent cant get above the old gatekeepers like Hopkins etc
Re: Britain and the rest of the World.
Posted: 15 Mar 2009, 08:07
by banjo
bbjc wrote:Dont think we do too badly for a country our size
Exactly, people forget that we aren't a massive country and also as boxing is not one of the major sports in this country anymore we're in a healthy state compared to other nations.
Re: Britain and the rest of the World.
Posted: 15 Mar 2009, 08:24
by Tykemania
I do think that there is an issue with our obsession with domestic fights that hampers some of our better fighters when they ought to be looking to push ahead to the world stage; think about it this way; what other geographically limited entity fights so insularly? None - the best Cubans, Puerto Ricans, Nicaraguans and Philipeanos look to move into the major markets - usually the States - which means extending themselves against better fighters at an earlier stage. Also, which other Country is so obsessed with its national belt? And thats before we consider the Commonwealth strap, European and our previous prediliction for meaningless "World" titles.
Cases in point? There are so many - the likes of Jamie Moore who end up looking to world class five years late and after bruising domestic wars, of Howard Eastman who make lord only knows how many meaningless British defences, and then of the likes of Gavin Rees, who seem to just disappear off the face of the Earth after one decent night - would that really happen to an equally talented Septic?
Re: Britain and the rest of the World.
Posted: 15 Mar 2009, 08:29
by hitman_hatton1
bbjc wrote:Ricky Hatton
he's blind to the truth.
haye as well.
potentially froch.
Re: Britain and the rest of the World.
Posted: 15 Mar 2009, 08:33
by hitman_hatton1
banjo wrote:There seems to be a thing creeping in these days - an obsession with unbeaten records - and it isn't just Britain either, you see it in the states and Germany too, it seems a fighter becomes less marketable once they lose their "0" so they try and milk it as long as possible.
it deffo hurt enzo last night.
that was the performance of a man who is so used to blasting guys out.
ola f*cked him up good and proper.
Re: Britain and the rest of the World.
Posted: 15 Mar 2009, 08:44
by DG.
hitman_hatton1 wrote:bbjc wrote:Ricky Hatton
he's blind to the truth.
haye as well.
potentially froch.
Hatton is as manufactured as they come. He has life and death with Urango and beats c level fighters in Lazcano and B level in Maligannagggiiii.
Lennox fought AL the best boys and beat them - Hatton has not done anything grest apart from an old KT in my book.
I agree - potentially Froch...potentially!
Re: Britain and the rest of the World.
Posted: 15 Mar 2009, 08:46
by BABY BLUE
DG. wrote:hitman_hatton1 wrote:bbjc wrote:Ricky Hatton
he's blind to the truth.
haye as well.
potentially froch.
Hatton is as manufactured as they come. He has life and death with Urango and beats c level fighters in Lazcano and B level in Maligannagggiiii.
Lennox fought AL the best boys and beat them - Hatton has not done anything grest apart from an old KT in my book.
I agree - potentially Froch...potentially!
theres Froch ,hatton and hayes.for def.
Re: Britain and the rest of the World.
Posted: 15 Mar 2009, 11:52
by DG.
BABY BLUE wrote:
Its the truth re: Hatton.
And yes, I should have said Haye and Froch are World beaters!
Re: Britain and the rest of the World.
Posted: 15 Mar 2009, 12:02
by bbjc
now i get it my friend you're at the wind up
Re: Britain and the rest of the World.
Posted: 15 Mar 2009, 12:04
by tonyevs
DG. wrote:Apart from Lennox - Benn - Calzaghe and Hamed.
Who have we had/got to really claim to the be able to beat the Top fighters in the world?
We are not doing well and it is all down to bullshit padded records.
As much as I liked Benn, he never was elite at the weight in the same way as Toney or Jones jr. were at about the same time.
Hamed fought old guys - johnson and kelly, and came a cropper against a guy from a lighter weight division .. who even moved back down rather than hold onto the title.
Calzaghe, missed the big fights also..
Lennox, he was the best for a long time .. but how British was he?
Re: Britain and the rest of the World.
Posted: 15 Mar 2009, 12:07
by DG.
bbjc wrote:now i get it my friend you're at the wind up
Look at Hatton record - there were better fihters out ttere for him to fight....
But he did not want it.
And do not say Pacman ( unproven at the weight and a light weight at best).
PBF? He got knocked out and landed 1 punch the whole fight!
Re: Britain and the rest of the World.
Posted: 15 Mar 2009, 12:08
by DG.
tonyevs wrote:DG. wrote:Apart from Lennox - Benn - Calzaghe and Hamed.
Who have we had/got to really claim to the be able to beat the Top fighters in the world?
We are not doing well and it is all down to bullshit padded records.
As much as I liked Benn, he never was elite at the weight in the same way as Toney or Jones jr. were at about the same time.
Hamed fought old guys - johnson and kelly, and came a cropper against a guy from a lighter weight division .. who even moved back down rather than hold onto the title.
Calzaghe, missed the big fights also..
Lennox, he was the best for a long time .. but how British was he?
Valid points re: Benn/Hamed/Calzaghe, but Lennox was born here so he is british...
Re: Britain and the rest of the World.
Posted: 15 Mar 2009, 12:21
by bbjc
yeah spot on toneyeve think Britain punches above there weight in terms of size etc however feel the only guy weve had that dominated their division was Lennox where he took on the prime in his division and won not in a one off fight.
DG cant include Benn Calzaghe and Hamed and not Hatton - think they've all either avoided the top guys in theier division at one time or another or lost to the best in their division.
They've all had a few great wins but you would get a similar grade for there opponents if you looked back at their record.
Benn and Calzaghe both avoided the top men in their division - prime roy jones etc whereas Hamed lost to Barrerra and Hatton to mayweather.
Re: Britain and the rest of the World.
Posted: 15 Mar 2009, 12:42
by Autobarn
The sad thing is Cook and Enzo appeared to have the skills. They appeared in control, then just folded. Like they couldn't hold it together, despite looking fairly classy. The fault appears to be that of the guy who makes the fights. They surely needed harder rounds to prepare them to win these bouts.
Let's not be too harsh - Haye had a great EBU title run then knocked off the 2 biggest punching champs/title holders; Hatton beat Tszyu (ok right place right time), and beat several title holders; Hamed beat some exceptional names (ok older or smaller or both) before getting schooled by Barrera; Calzaghe did make a lot of 168 title defences and eventually unified (despite struggling with more experienced ie ancient Hopkins & Jones); Benn made some good WBC title defences, beat some top Americans, drew Eubank; Eubank despite missing top US comp fought amazing fights with the best of Britain, true classics.
Almost every top fighter has avoided someone, ducked someone, taken a specific career route that enabled them to pursue a certain risk/reward balance. And if they didn't (ie Marquez) it's cos they were on the outside looking in.
We need to perhaps lighten up a little bit. They're certainly not in an Enzo Macca situation are/were they?
Re: Britain and the rest of the World.
Posted: 15 Mar 2009, 12:47
by DG.
bbjc wrote:yeah spot on toneyeve think Britain punches above there weight in terms of size etc however feel the only guy weve had that dominated their division was Lennox where he took on the prime in his division and won not in a one off fight.
DG cant include Benn Calzaghe and Hamed and not Hatton - think they've all either avoided the top guys in theier division at one time or another or lost to the best in their division.
They've all had a few great wins but you would get a similar grade for there opponents if you looked back at their record.
Benn and Calzaghe both avoided the top men in their division - prime roy jones etc whereas Hamed lost to Barrerra and Hatton to mayweather.
I think Benn beating Mcclellan makes hima british lwgend despite the fact GM was a Middleweight, he was a vicious P4P Number puncher at the time. Mcclellan took and dished out to Julian Jackson..twice!
Calzaghe beat the best of british and a host of good yanks and Lacy was onfire prior to the Calzaghe fight.
Hames at one time or another beat all the champions and well so he makes the list in my opinion, he ducked JMM an I know why!
Ceasr Soto - Vazquez - Johnson - Robinson etc were te best at the time...... Kelley was also a good win.
Hatton does not join that list because he beat KT! H missed Cotto - Corley - SSM - Witter and even Torres - Holt - Hopkins and bradley were on fire..so Hatton chooses Urango - Maussa Urango and Lazcano? Me say, no no no!
Re: Britain and the rest of the World.
Posted: 15 Mar 2009, 13:13
by mark thompson
Does 1 day go by when DG doesn't say Hatton ducked Witter ??
Me say NO NO NO
Re: Britain and the rest of the World.
Posted: 15 Mar 2009, 13:45
by DG.
mark thompson wrote:Does 1 day go by when DG doesn't say Hatton ducked Witter ??
Me say NO NO NO
Me say.....yes yes yes!
Re: Britain and the rest of the World.
Posted: 15 Mar 2009, 15:15
by Max Molyneux
Benn and Calzaghe both avoided the top men in their division - prime roy jones etc whereas Hamed lost to Barrerra and Hatton to mayweather.
Jones went up to Light heavy by the time Joe was a champ.